Property tax needs to be repealed / abolished NOW! (Morgan Co info here)

[Ingomike]

In uses WRT human nature, “you” is used rhetorically. However some uses were specific to circumstances. For example, you being susceptible to gaslighting on the right. Everyone who is not suspicious of those on their own side are susceptible to gaslighting. We’re naturally suspicious of the other side. We think they’re lying before we have any facts. We also trust those on our side before we have any facts.


So. I noticed that you did not answer the question. Who was your last completely fiscally responsible choice? I ask because there aren’t any. They’ll talk about it, but they won’t do it. Instead we vote for people we think are on our side, on the most important issues.

And you, not just rhetorically “you”, sit there and blame people for voting for imperfect people, as you are forced by circumstances to do the same. In reality, every vote is a vote for least evil, which still results in some evil.

Actually I suspect those that have such strong beliefs that they are neutral arbiters might just be the most gaslit.

The fact that in my lifetime there has not been a fiscally responsible choice is not because of some mythical “they”. It is because not enough of the collective “we” recruit, support, fund, and get out the votes for fiscally responsible candidates.

It all goes back to my original post, the people do not demand it or they would get it. The founders understood the power of the people and gave them the tools but the people must use them…

 

[Ingomike]

Last year I used Google Earth to plot the acreage on my property. I was researching something else but noticed the acreage totaled less than what the property deeds said it should be.

I used the state's program, similar to Google Earth, and got an identical total. It was about 4% less land than the deeds stated.

After multiple calls we figured it out. Interstate 74 cuts along the edge of my property. In the early 1960s the land was appropriated for the highway but never removed from the deeds. I had the land acreage adjusted and should see a small decrease in my property tax this year. The state mapping director said the same problem, with all types of roads, effects many people in the country and they're unaware of it. The county doesn't know what to do about it is probably disincentivised to advertise it.

It's a small decrease but I'll pay a bit less in property tax every year going forward. And, it's less money for the politicians.

If your property has an adjacent road, especially in interstate it might be worth taking a look.

A friend bought a property that the the deed said 22 acres but modern surveying found it a little under 20. The family that owned it had paid taxes on a nonexistent 2 acres for 70 years. Mistakes happen, especially back a 100 years ago but they can still occur.

 

[phylodog]

The county doesn't know what to do about it is probably disincentivised to advertise it.

If our government worked the way it should the county would notify the existing property owners of the issue after they've remedied it and include a check for taxes paid due to the county's mistake.

 

[jamil]

Actually I suspect those that have such strong beliefs that they are neutral arbiters might just be the most gaslit.

Who is neutral? I don't know anyone who is. I know quite a few people who don't give a **** about politics, but they're not neutral.

The fact that in my lifetime there has not been a fiscally responsible choice is not because of some mythical “they”. It is because not enough of the collective “we” recruit, support, fund, and get out the votes for fiscally responsible candidates.

There is no collective. It's individuals whose beliefs aggregate into something we vaguely refer to as "average". Individuals don't agree on a lot. Voting is more like the diversity of belief being pigeonholed into narrow choices. You will never see what you're saying we should do because that goes against human nature. But you'll blame the people whose nature it to be incapable of coalescing on a consensus candidate.

It all goes back to my original post, the people do not demand it or they would get it. The founders understood the power of the people and gave them the tools but the people must use them…

It's like congress. Everyone hates congress; it has like a 10% approval rating. But they think their representatives are just fine. You ask for something you will never get, because it's not possible, but yet you blame people for that impossibility. But, I would like us to get closer to that. I'm not gonna go blaming others for thinking differently than me when it doesn't happen though.

 

[jamil]

If our government worked the way it should the county would notify the existing property owners of the issue after they've remedied it and include a check for taxes paid due to the county's mistake.

I had a survey done a few years ago. Dammit, it was spot on.

 

[Ingomike]

Who is neutral? I don't know anyone who is. I know quite a few people who don't give a **** about politics, but they're not neutral.

You have claimed to be the arbiter of both sides ad nauseam as ‘one as I have been here.

There is no collective. It's individuals whose beliefs aggregate into something we vaguely refer to as "average". Individuals don't agree on a lot. Voting is more like the diversity of belief being pigeonholed into narrow choices. You will never see what you're saying we should do because that goes against human nature. But you'll blame the people whose nature it to be incapable of coalescing on a consensus candidate.

You left out an important word, I said “collective” “we”. That “we” is very important.

It's like congress. Everyone hates congress; it has like a 10% approval rating. But they think their representatives are just fine. You ask for something you will never get, because it's not possible, but yet you blame people for that impossibility. But, I would like us to get closer to that.

This is all true but another example of my point.

I'm not gonna go blaming others for thinking differently than me when it doesn't happen though.

I’m not blaming the people, just explaining how it works…

 

[jamil]

You have claimed to be the arbiter of both sides ad nauseam as ‘one as I have been here.

No, I have never claimed to be any arbiter of anything. That's what you and Bug have constantly accused me of. What I have done is used some critical reasoning to call you on some wild ass claims.

You left out an important word, I said “collective” “we”. That “we” is very important.

And I said "collective" "we" is meaningless. You get to blame the nebulous collective for things not being the way you want them, which isn't really saying anything.

This is all true but another example of my point.

It's actually an example of my point. People disagree with you that the representatives they voted for are the problem. You act as if everyone wants fiscal responsibility, but can't seem to field candidates that want it. No candidate, or, at most, very few candidates actually want fiscal responsibility. They want the office because of power. Fiscal responsibility tends to work against power. So they pretend to be fiscally responsible.

That fantasy you have that if only people would just push for better candidates, we'd have better candidates. I'm saying that's bull ****. Human nature shits all over your fantasy like bird ******** on a shiny, freshly washed and polished car, on a warm sunny day. People don't all agree on what the best policies are, and they don't agree on who is the best to carry them out. But, people are pretty good at self sorting into the pigeon holes the candidates create for them.

I’m not blaming the people, just explaining how it works…

Oh really.

It’s not all government, it is the people’s fault…

 

[Ingomike]

No, I have never claimed to be any arbiter of anything. That's what you and Bug have constantly accused me of. What I have done is used some critical reasoning to call you on some wild ass claims.

Yet you do.

And I said "collective" "we" is meaningless. You get to blame the nebulous collective for things not being the way you want them, which isn't really saying anything.

@phylodog was blaming government which is a reflection of the people.

It's actually an example of my point. People disagree with you that the representatives they voted for are the problem. You act as if everyone wants fiscal responsibility, but can't seem to field candidates that want it. No candidate, or, at most, very few candidates actually want fiscal responsibility. They want the office because of power. Fiscal responsibility tends to work against power. So they pretend to be fiscally responsible.

My point was nobody wants fiscal responsibility because if they did candidates would run on it.

That fantasy you have that if only people would just push for better candidates, we'd have better candidates. I'm saying that's bull ****. Human nature shits all over your fantasy like bird ******** on a shiny, freshly washed and polished car, on a warm sunny day. People don't all agree on what the best policies are, and they don't agree on who is the best to carry them out. But, people are pretty good at self sorting into the pigeon holes the candidates create for them.

Well you can live with your cynicism I know what the founders gave us.

 

[jamil]

Yet you do.

prove it

@phylodog was blaming government which is a reflection of the people.

who you blamed

My point was nobody wants fiscal responsibility because if they did candidates would run on it.

Candidates DO run on it. They just don't do it.

Well you can live with your cynicism I know what the founders gave us.

They gave us a system where people self-sort into roughly two pigeon holes. They gave us the best system they could. Not perfect. I don't think there is a system which could maximize human nature for maximum liberty. Even though the anarchocapitalists would disagree with that. But they get human nature wrong just like the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

[Ingomike]

who you blamed

Ok, bad government is the fault of the people, they have options but choose not to exercise them.

I’m done. This conversation is not fun.

 

[bwframe]

Holcomb names four Indianapolis business leaders for downtown tax board - Indianapolis Business Journal

The appointments are the first of several expected to be made before November for the board, which was authorized by the City-County Council last month.

www.ibj.com

 

[jamil]

Ok, bad government is the fault of the people, they have options but choose not to exercise them.

I’m done. This conversation is not fun.

If you're saying government is the fault of humans, ya. For sure. If you're saying it's the fault of the people because they don't choose the people you think they should, I don't think you know how that game plays.