Police shoot unarmed suspects 137 times after pursuit in East Cleveland; 2 dead

[phylodog]

You're kidding, correct? Name an organization that isn't concerned with its image. If you don't believe that, you are substituting your own reality.

No answers to my questions? Why should it hurt my reputation? Do you accept the blame the anti's want to lay at your feet when a gun owner murders someone?

I'm not kidding, are you?

 

[Alpo]

The difference? I am not presently a member of an organization/profession. I do not have a union.

Look at it from a civilians point of view. Why are firefighters more respected than cops? If you don't think that one bad actor is dishonoring your profession, then I'd say the profession perhaps ought to take a hard, inward look.

Look at the stains on the secret service from their recent problems. You don't think that bad acts by a few don't cast doubt on the integrity of the entire organization and its members?

The only group I belong to is my family. If my brother dishonors the family, then I bare the shame as well. I am also an Indiana resident. And I do have to put up with a lot of snarky comments from family and friends because I live in a state that elected Pence.

 

[phylodog]

Smells like hypocrisy.

 

[Alpo]

The Cleveland cops put more bullets into the car and people than the Feds did with Bonnie and Clyde. If these people were criminals of the calibre of Bonnie and Clyde, I think many folks would have been, at the very least, pleased to see that criminals got "street justice". However, it didn't happen that way, and the street justice was so egregious that a cop stood on the hood of the car to further aggravate the sensibilities of almost everyone (including you, if your prior comments are true).

But, one bad act, even one so horrific, is an outlier. Outliers are forgiven/ignored/forgotten most of the time. But that hasn't been the only case in the last year, right? Baltimore, another cop shooting an unarmed man as he ran away---there isn't really a need to go on. If these don't give you a twinge when you read about them, then there is no reason to discuss it further.

The contract you have with the community is based on trust. You, as an individual may be worthy of that trust in every instance. But, these cops have stained the uniform that you all wear and have served to undermine that social contract you have with the people you serve and protect.

 

[phylodog]

I very well acquainted with this case. I've been following it closely since the incident occurred. Take away Brelo's rounds and the remaining officers averaged fewer than 8 rounds each.

We're still dancing around my questions. No one enjoys negative stereotypes but few are scorned for refusing to accept them like the police. Its been a constant theme here on INGO for years.

 

[Fargo]

Smells like hypocrisy.

The observation that this has hurt law enforcement's reputation (which is true) does not equate to an endorsement of that result.

 

[phylodog]

The observation that this has hurt law enforcement's reputation (which is true) does not equate to an endorsement of that result.

It does if those making the claim refuse to be lumped in with people they don't know based on nothing but a shared profession. This incident has undoubtedly (and justifiably) hurt the reputation of the Cleveland PD. The Cleveland PD has nothing to do with me or my agency.

 

[cce1302]

Sometimes it hurts the reputation of those in the profession because those in the profession condone the harmful behavior with their silence or with their condemnation of those who speak out against the harmful behavior.

 

[Alpo]

Sorry, I won't buy into the theme that I am a cop basher. That's not the way I feel. I've said before that I don't have what it takes to deal with the worst parts of our society. I respect those who do.

And yes, when some idiot doesn't follow the basic safety rules and shoots himself or someone else, it affects all gun owners. Every time a gunowner does something stupid, there is a chance that the law will change forever.

Shouldn't it be the same for any profession/organization? We have many laws because of the bad actors in meatpacking, pharma, chemical co's, etc. Bad acts change laws.

 

[Fargo]

It does if those making the claim refuse to be lumped in with people they don't know based on nothing but a shared profession. This incident has undoubtedly hurt the reputation of the Cleveland PD. The Cleveland PD has nothing to do with me or my agency.

So you don't believe that there is a significant portion of the general population of Indy who think this incident reflects on all law enforcement?

This has nothing to do with agreeing to be "lumped in", it has to do with public perception, which is of its very nature a flawed/incomplete picture.

 

[phylodog]

So you don't believe that there is a significant portion of the general population of Indy who think this incident reflects on all law enforcement?

This has nothing to do with agreeing to be "lumped in", it has to do with public perception, which is of its very nature a flawed/incomplete picture.

Oh I'm more than positive there is a significant portion of this country who will use anything they can find as an excuse to believe police officers are this or that. I'm not trying to deny that that is the reality. I'm simply asking if that makes sense if people are willing to look at it objectively. I'm very clear that personal responsibility has become taboo in this country, there's always someone or something else to blame.

Officer Brelo screwed up in my opinion. I've said it from the day I found out the details of this situation, there is no condoning or silence about it. I think the prosecutor screwed the pooch in a major way which resulted in Brelo walking on the charges. I believe the prosecutor should be held accountable for the decisions he made. I don't however feel that his ridiculous approach to handling this case says anything about the reputation of Fargo as an attorney.

 

[Que]

Sometimes it hurts the reputation of those in the profession because those in the profession condone the harmful behavior with their silence or with their condemnation of those who speak out against the harmful behavior.

So goes the human race.

 

[Fargo]

Oh I'm more than positive there is a significant portion of this country who will use anything they can find as an excuse to believe police officers are this or that. I'm not trying to deny that that is the reality. I'm simply asking if that makes sense if people are willing to look at it objectively. I'm very clear that personal responsibility has become taboo in this country, there's always someone or something else to blame.

Officer Brelo screwed up in my opinion. I've said it from the day I found out the details of this situation, there is no condoning or silence about it. I think the prosecutor screwed the pooch in a major way which resulted in Brelo walking on the charges. I believe the prosecutor should be held accountable for the decisions he made. I don't however feel that his ridiculous approach to handling this case says anything about the reputation of Fargo as an attorney.

I put nothing past lawyers (present company excluded of course). Those with political aspirations would think little of tossing a couple of cops under a bus. Frank Straub being a shining example of this type of heathen.

I'm a lawyer and while I'm far from a politician, my name has been on the ballot. I don't appreciate what the John Edwards, Mike Nifong's, Bill Clintons, Barack Obama's of the world have done to shape public perception of me but it is simply the reality I live in.

It isn't right, but it is what it is.

 

[phylodog]

It isn't right, but it is what it is.

I ask nothing more.

 

[ModernGunner]

The difference? I am not presently a member of an organization/profession. I do not have a union.

Look at it from a civilians point of view. Why are firefighters more respected than cops? If you don't think that one bad actor is dishonoring your profession, then I'd say the profession perhaps ought to take a hard, inward look.

Look at the stains on the secret service from their recent problems. You don't think that bad acts by a few don't cast doubt on the integrity of the entire organization and its members?

The only group I belong to is my family. If my brother dishonors the family, then I bare the shame as well. I am also an Indiana resident. And I do have to put up with a lot of snarky comments from family and friends because I live in a state that elected Pence.

You ALSO belong to the group that owns guns, works where you work, does whatever it is you do for a living (even if that's 'retired'), eats at specific restaurants, buys certain types of clothing, TV's, cars, cell phones (or landlines), furniture, groceries, participates in certain sports (even as a spectator), reads certain books & magazines (or doesn't), participates on certain internet forums (or doesn't), lives in an urban (or suburban, or rural) area, owns a home (or not), votes for a certain political party (or doesn't), belongs to a certain race, creed, religion, nationality, has a certain hair & eye color (or doesn't)...

And the list goes on and on and on. Like it or not, we're all members of a multitude of groups.

Are there SOME groups in which the members can be lumped together with a negative label of some sort? Of course, and we DO that.

Can ALL groups be so appropriated? Of course not.

"Why are firefighters more respected than cops?" Generally speaking? Because firefighters are perceived as doing things FOR people, cops are perceived as doing things TO people. Cops have authority over you that firefighters do not.

Ironically, YOU (and those in your community) gave them that authority.

And no one has to 'put up with it', either. Move. Out of the community, out of the State, out of the Country.

 

[ModernGunner]

The Cleveland cops put more bullets into the car and people than the Feds did with Bonnie and Clyde. If these people were criminals of the calibre of Bonnie and Clyde...

Trust me, as a gun owner (and presumably, one that also keeps a firearm for the protection of them self and those within their purview, the LAST place you want to head is into to the "How many bullets is 'right'?" fracas.

You'll find that well beyond the proverbial 'cutting your nose off to spite your face' thing.

IIRC, the perpetrators were hit 20 times (please feel free to correct). So the title of the thread should read "Police shoot unarmed suspects 20 times..." Of course, 137 sounds 'eviler'...

However, the PROPER title should read "Police shoot unarmed suspects". But golly gee, that just doesn't have near the 'sensational' ring to it, does it?

And it's doubtful "Police acquitted / exonerated for shooting unarmed suspects" will get much air time at all.

 

[Alpo]

I have no idea what your point is, MG. Clearly not the conjugation of "to move".

My response was to PD, not a broad philosophical dialectic on Venn diagrams. He is more than capable of answering for himself, and he has done so.

 

[Alpo]

As to your second post, it seems that Bonnie and Clyde were hit less than half number of times (20 vs 40), although no FBI agent pulled a Rambo and stood on the hood of the car.

As to "Police Exonerated, etc", the decision was announced over the weekend to avoid demonstrations. But, it appears that the media didn't follow your observation:

Breaking News and Opinion on The Huffington Post

 

[rambone]

This time justice will be served. Go ahead, kick.

 

[churchmouse]

We have friends in Cleveland and an Ingo member. I have been getting real time updates all night.