Police shoot unarmed suspects 137 times after pursuit in East Cleveland; 2 dead

[poptab]

There is no love but love of the system. The system is justice.

am I doing it right?

 

[Kutnupe14]

What is "Justice"?

To be fair not all justice is lawful or legal. If a guy killed my mother and was caught.... and I subsequently "Lee Harvey'd" him from a rooftop, while he was walking into a courtroom, I'd call that justice... but not lawful.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

There is no love but love of the system. The system is justice.

There is no love but the love of the result the mob wants. The mob is justice.

Am I doing this right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0DK-0fIKCw

Perhaps I should ask an INGO-rated expert on such savagery? I mean his heart was in the right place and that all that matters, right?

 

[Fargo]

I believe it better termed a problem of causation.

For their to be a problem of causation or a defense of impossibility, would the court not have to find as a matter of law at least one officer who discharged his weapon after the last time the deceased was seen alive was legally justified in doing so? If not, would not accomplice liability, if properly charged, render such issues moot in most circumstances? (I do not know how exactly it was charged so I'm not claiming that accomplice liability was necessarily in play.)

I will be curious to see if the state tries an appeal on this; I suspect it will largely depend on how competent the prosecutor was both in his charging decisions and in his trial preservation of potential error. Of course, at the end of the day, even if the state wins it is meaningless as regards this case.

 

[IndyDave1776]

There is no love but the love of the result the mob wants. The mob is justice.

Am I doing this right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0DK-0fIKCw

Perhaps I should ask an INGO-rated expert on such savagery? I mean his heart was in the right place and that all that matters, right?

Good example for demonstrating that those who live by the mob also die by the mob.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

For their to be a problem of causation or a defense of impossibility, would the court not have to find as a matter of law at least one officer who discharged his weapon after the last time the deceased was seen alive was legally justified in doing so?

Could have, but not required.

If not, would not accomplice liability, if properly charged, render such issues moot in most circumstances? (I do not know how exactly it was charged so I'm not claiming that accomplice liability was necessarily in play.)

Potentially. When this kicked off I remember scratching my head wondering why there wasn't a Conspiracy count to get around the causation problems, but I don't pitch anymore.

 

[Fargo]

Could have, but not required.



Potentially. When this kicked off I remember scratching my head wondering why there wasn't a Conspiracy count to get around the causation problems, but I don't pitch anymore.

If this was charged straight up and the state voluntarily tried it to the bench, it seems to me like there may have been potentially either incompetence or game throwing.

On a case of this profile, I would expect all i's to be dotted etc. The basis for the acquittal makes me seriously question if that was the case.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

On a case of this profile, I would expect all i's to be dotted etc. The basis for the acquittal makes me seriously question if that was the case.

Upon hearing the hoofbeats of irregularity, think stupidity/incompetence, not malice.

 

[Fargo]

Upon hearing the hoofbeats of irregularity, think stupidity/incompetence, not malice.

I can stomach a lot more stupidity/incompetence in a low profile case than in one like this. While I think it very unlikely that there was insider baseball, I have to confess the there are a number of circumstances that do cause it to come to mind.

I know that attempted voluntary manslaughter is a charge that doesn't legally exist in many/most jurisdictions, but there are probably a half dozen charges that would lend themselves to an attempt, never mind conspiracy or aiding.

Perhaps this was an ill fated "all or nuthin" type charging decision, although the lesser straight up charge makes it seem unlikely.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I can stomach a lot more stupidity/incompetence in a low profile case than in one like this. While I think it very unlikely that there was insider baseball, I have to confess the there are a number of circumstances that do cause it to come to mind.

I know that attempted voluntary manslaughter is a charge that doesn't legally exist in many/most jurisdictions, but there are probably a half dozen charges that would lend themselves to an attempt, never mind conspiracy or aiding.

Perhaps this was an ill fated "all or nuthin" type charging decision, although the lesser straight up charge makes it seem unlikely.

What are your thoughts on a compromise answer to the question? Perhaps the prosecution felt pressured to 'do something' and entered with a, well, half-hearted level of enthusiasm without taking it to the level of throwing the trial per se, more indifference than outright malfeasance?

 

[Fargo]

What are your thoughts on a compromise answer to the question? Perhaps the prosecution felt pressured to 'do something' and entered with a, well, half-hearted level of enthusiasm without taking it to the level of throwing the trial per se, more indifference than outright malfeasance?

That's the weird thing, they seemed to be balls to the wall in some ways but kinda halfassed in others. I don't know enough firsthand specifics of the case to really say I even have an educated guess why; there could be a Paul Harvey that makes perfect sense. If there is though, I'm not seeing it.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I know that attempted voluntary manslaughter is a charge that doesn't legally exist in many/most jurisdictions, but there are probably a half dozen charges that would lend themselves to an attempt, never mind conspiracy or aiding.

That's on the government. They could have filed Reckless Homicide but choose not to. Or, they could have done nothing at all and let the administrative and civil tracks deal with the issue.

The evidence was not there for what they were asking. The people of Ohio elect smarter prosecutors or they can live with the result.

 

[Birds Away]

That's on the government. They could have filed Reckless Homicide but choose not to. Or, they could have done nothing at all and let the administrative and civil tracks deal with the issue.

The evidence was not there for what they were asking. The people of Ohio elect smarter prosecutors or they can live with the result.

Maybe that was the plan all along.

 

[Woobie]

Upon hearing the hoofbeats of irregularity, think stupidity/incompetence, not malice.

This proverb is known as Occam's Barbasol.

I make light of it, but it is so true. People look at what government on any level does, see things that don't make sense, and immediately think something nefarious is afoot. But what they forget is that it is a beaurocracy filled with people who either don't care, don't get fired and have no motivation for success; or people who are motivated, and have been promoted past their competency. Sometimes the monster isn't trying smash the village, sometimes it's just chasing its own tail and didn't see the village. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be fired and their organization downsized, though.

 

[IndyDave1776]

This proverb is known as Occam's Barbasol.

I make light of it, but it is so true. People look at what government on any level does, see things that don't make sense, and immediately think something nefarious is afoot. But what they forget is that it is a beaurocracy filled with people who either don't care, don't get fired and have no motivation for success; or people who are motivated, and have been promoted past their competency. Sometimes the monster isn't trying smash the village, sometimes it's just chasing its own tail and didn't see the village. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be fired and their organization downsized, though.

You raise a good point, but some people start to doubt ineptitude as a viable argument when the results get to be too consistent.

 

[cce1302]

You raise a good point, but some people start to doubt ineptitude as a viable argument when the results get to be too consistent.

Once may be incompetence; twice, coincidence; three times is most likely enemy action.

 

[Alpo]

This proverb is known as Occam's Barbasol.

I make light of it, but it is so true. People look at what government on any level does, see things that don't make sense, and immediately think something nefarious is afoot. But what they forget is that it is a beaurocracy filled with people who either don't care, don't get fired and have no motivation for success; or people who are motivated, and have been promoted past their competency. Sometimes the monster isn't trying smash the village, sometimes it's just chasing its own tail and didn't see the village. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be fired and their organization downsized, though.

I used to think America had a precisely defined foreign policy----until I ended up on the bleeding edge of that policy in a foreign land. Now I realize we have never had a clue, decisions are based on gut instinct and the present political climate, and we end up paying more for these disastrous decisions than any other form of bureaucratic blunder.

Kind of makes Rand Paul the pre-eminent foreign policy expert in this presidential cycle.

 

[D-Ric902]

Here's Why The Cleveland Police Officer Wasn't Convicted | The Daily Caller

 

[poptab]

There is no love but the love of the result the mob wants. The mob is justice.

Am I doing this right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0DK-0fIKCw

Perhaps I should ask an INGO-rated expert on such savagery? I mean his heart was in the right place and that all that matters, right?

When did I invoke mob rule?

Anyways mine sounds better. Yours is a little awkward. Doesn't really roll off the tongue.

When will Kirk teach us about Bastille day?
One wonders.

 

[Alpo]

I'd really like to know why Homeland Security was investigating kiddie rides at the Lafayette carnival. Lafayette is now under martial law?