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Physical fitness of firearms instructors
- Thread starter esrice
- Start date
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I might choose my physician, yoga instructor, ballet trainer, diet coach by their physical fitness. I took my training with COACH who's much bigger than I am, but knows a lot more than I do about firearms. Had I known he weighed 300lbs before I trucked out to Greencastle, I might have brought some baco bits wid me....just kidding COACH. I woulda guessed about 250lbs.....Cheers. And now, back to my pas de deux.......
the theme of our thread seems to be shifting slightly. I now seems the answer could be "it depends on what type of firearms training".
For example, in a basic civilian defensive class I assisted with, run by our local PD, almost half of the 16 students were seniors.
While all of our officers are fit and trim, I was able to answer a lot of questions about our rights and various ways to carry that the PD doesn't address. They didn't care if I was fat or not.
On the other hand, I guess I have to agree that if you are taking more advanced classes, you would probably expect your instructor to be able to do the techniques being taught.
For example, in a basic civilian defensive class I assisted with, run by our local PD, almost half of the 16 students were seniors.
While all of our officers are fit and trim, I was able to answer a lot of questions about our rights and various ways to carry that the PD doesn't address. They didn't care if I was fat or not.
On the other hand, I guess I have to agree that if you are taking more advanced classes, you would probably expect your instructor to be able to do the techniques being taught.
Ok, yes. I think it matters. However it is not the ONLY thing that matters.
100%^^^^^
It would be a major issue with me if they were telling me to do something I know they can't do because of poor life choices. That does not mean I would shy away from a older instructor or someone who has a legitimate injury but rather the guy who is 300lbs because he will "just crush" a person in a fight.
Chris Rock puts it best...I don't care how smart you are. The question is can you kick my ***
This is how I should have worded my original post in this thread.
BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 26,608
- 113
Well, I'll just say I still don't care about physical condition. I doubt the folks who train professional boxers could get in the ring with them and last. I doubt the folks who teach any professional athlete can actually pitch, throw, cycle, swing, or whatever as well as the folks they train. I'm not looking for a team mate or a battle buddy, why do I care if you can actually do it? I'm looking for someone who has knowledge and can successfully impart that knowledge. If he's a blob of a man or missing a leg, that's irrelevant to me.
Kirk Freeman
Grandmaster
Best classes I've had the instructors was nearly immobilized--Cirillo, Smith (before his new knee and in lip sucking pain), Taylor after his parachuting accident.
Does not matter. I am there for education and knowledge, not to do burpees all day, hit the bag and then jump rope together.
Does not matter. I am there for education and knowledge, not to do burpees all day, hit the bag and then jump rope together.
I'm the poster child for fat firearms teachers. I know some people won't learn from me because of that and I know some people won't learn from me because I wasn't in the military. I also know some won't learn from me because they shoot better in competitions than I do. Some just don't like me or the way I teach. At this point in life, it doesn't bother me so much why someone doesn't seek my instruction. I will continue to help those who want my help and there are plenty of other instructors who can meet the needs of the others.
As a student (which is pertinent to this topic) I have learned a metric butt-tonne load from teachers who were fat, old, and sometimes even less mobile than I am and I've learned a lot from teachers who are exemplars of fitness. I've learned from people whose skill level dwarfs mine, and I've learned from people who have a long way to go before they can do what I do (but they will get there). My primary interests in choosing instructors are 1) do they know something that I want or need to know or learn, and 2) can they teach me effectively. The latter is where some issues we're discussing can arise for me and for others. I don't have a bias in terms of physical fitness, perhaps because of my personal perspective. I do admit to a bias about personality and how an instructor chooses to interact with the students. Is that more or less legitimate than those who have a bias against fat guys? Probably it's about the same, and I'll own it. I place a high value on how someone treats me and others who share my role as a student.
Believe it or not, a similar issue sometimes arises about fat students. A few years ago on another forum, someone started a topic about fat guys in classes wherein the original poster and significant number of others wrote a lot of text about how fat people don't belong in classes. One reason what they "slowed down" the class, and there may be some merit to that in some cases and not so much in others. The most common idea though, was that fat people were so much more likely to die from some obesity-related disease or condition that they shouldn't bother learning to defend themselves. I had a hard time wrapping my head around that because people who are less mobile with less endurance and little ability to flee the scene would seem to be among the people who need training the most. I could be wrong. Curiously this trend either faded or became less public when Larry Vickers was a little chubby on his tv show.
Mr. Vickers is significantly slimmer now than he was a couple of years ago. I assert, however, that I could learn as much from chubby Larry Vickers as I could from fitter Larry Vickers. Sure, you could maintain that his weight never impaired him significantly in his role as a teacher and I'd agree. On the other hand, sometimes with some people it's more about appearance and their personal aesthetic paradigms than it is about knowledge and teaching ability. To me that's far more troubling than genuinely finding fault for lack of ability to perform to a standard because of weight.
Addendum: Coach may claim to be fat, but his physical ability contradicts him.
As a student (which is pertinent to this topic) I have learned a metric butt-tonne load from teachers who were fat, old, and sometimes even less mobile than I am and I've learned a lot from teachers who are exemplars of fitness. I've learned from people whose skill level dwarfs mine, and I've learned from people who have a long way to go before they can do what I do (but they will get there). My primary interests in choosing instructors are 1) do they know something that I want or need to know or learn, and 2) can they teach me effectively. The latter is where some issues we're discussing can arise for me and for others. I don't have a bias in terms of physical fitness, perhaps because of my personal perspective. I do admit to a bias about personality and how an instructor chooses to interact with the students. Is that more or less legitimate than those who have a bias against fat guys? Probably it's about the same, and I'll own it. I place a high value on how someone treats me and others who share my role as a student.
Believe it or not, a similar issue sometimes arises about fat students. A few years ago on another forum, someone started a topic about fat guys in classes wherein the original poster and significant number of others wrote a lot of text about how fat people don't belong in classes. One reason what they "slowed down" the class, and there may be some merit to that in some cases and not so much in others. The most common idea though, was that fat people were so much more likely to die from some obesity-related disease or condition that they shouldn't bother learning to defend themselves. I had a hard time wrapping my head around that because people who are less mobile with less endurance and little ability to flee the scene would seem to be among the people who need training the most. I could be wrong. Curiously this trend either faded or became less public when Larry Vickers was a little chubby on his tv show.
Mr. Vickers is significantly slimmer now than he was a couple of years ago. I assert, however, that I could learn as much from chubby Larry Vickers as I could from fitter Larry Vickers. Sure, you could maintain that his weight never impaired him significantly in his role as a teacher and I'd agree. On the other hand, sometimes with some people it's more about appearance and their personal aesthetic paradigms than it is about knowledge and teaching ability. To me that's far more troubling than genuinely finding fault for lack of ability to perform to a standard because of weight.
Addendum: Coach may claim to be fat, but his physical ability contradicts him.
Last edited:
SmokinSigs357
Expert
Anybody want to tell Larry Vickers he's too fat to train them?
http://vickerstactical.com/
I'll take a Vickers course any day of the week...
http://vickerstactical.com/
I'll take a Vickers course any day of the week...
I wouldn't have any reason to tell him that, not that he would care. That is though who I was referring to that I wouldn't got to.
Last edited:
SmokinSigs357
Expert
Indy_Guy_77
Grandmaster
- Apr 30, 2008
- 16,576
- 48
I prefer my trainers to be fluffy AND Filipino. So there.
-J-
-J-
I know that's written in English, I just don't understand it. Needs interpreter...
I blame my phone.
Interesting subject, Evan, and some interesting responses (as expected.)
I've struggled with this issue since I dipped my toe into the water of becoming an instructor in some capacity someday. I'm not a youngster. I used to be skinny. Not so much anymore. Things are really starting to creak and crack when I move, especially when I have to kneel or drop and get back up in a hurry. This getting old isn't for kids.
I know that I'm out of shape for taking really active tactical courses. Running around, jumping over barricades with a carbine and gear stuffed with full mags would likely prove most challenging. However, the reality for most of us is that we take those kinds of courses for FUN. Despite the rhetoric that abounds about an inevitable civil war or something equally disastrous, most of us will never fire a shot from our ARs and AKs in anger. We play weekend warriors and blow holes in a lot of cardboard, doing for fun what our troops do for real on a daily basis with their lives in the balance. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's not real preparation for something that we will likely face.
My heart is for educating the new shooter, not the weekend warrior. That's why God gave us the Haleys and Costas out there -- young, fit, reputable bona fides and a zeal for making wannabe operators. Good for them AND for their students! I'd train with guys like that in a heartbeat, but not because the skills that I would learn would likely be of any practical benefit. With a son who is a Marine infantryman, I see learning to manipulate my ARs and becoming proficient with them as a way to nurture a mutual interest and bond with him a bit. I can't fool him -- he's been there, done that. I'm just a wannabe.
Do I worry that my "tactical girth" will cause potential new students to avoid my instruction in shooting fundamentals? I doubt it. If anything, I think that there's a segment of new shooters out there who would learn BETTER from a somewhat pudgy, old, bald guy than from a slim, trim, bearded operator with cool Oakleys and an operator's ball cap. It's one thing to be taught fundamentals by a LEO or combat vet ... but there's merit to have an instructor who is just an average Joe who has the head knowledge AND a heart for teaching (with some solid shooting ability, of course.)
As others have said, it all depends on what kind of training you're looking for and what your personal biases are. I have to laugh when I read, for example, advice from skinny guys on how best to conceal a handgun. It's a whole different issue when there's some tactical girth to contend with. Until you've grown that kind of girth, it's apples and oranges. I'm planning to get serious about getting myself in better shape someday. Until then, however, I think there's room at the table for fat guys.
I've struggled with this issue since I dipped my toe into the water of becoming an instructor in some capacity someday. I'm not a youngster. I used to be skinny. Not so much anymore. Things are really starting to creak and crack when I move, especially when I have to kneel or drop and get back up in a hurry. This getting old isn't for kids.
I know that I'm out of shape for taking really active tactical courses. Running around, jumping over barricades with a carbine and gear stuffed with full mags would likely prove most challenging. However, the reality for most of us is that we take those kinds of courses for FUN. Despite the rhetoric that abounds about an inevitable civil war or something equally disastrous, most of us will never fire a shot from our ARs and AKs in anger. We play weekend warriors and blow holes in a lot of cardboard, doing for fun what our troops do for real on a daily basis with their lives in the balance. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's not real preparation for something that we will likely face.
My heart is for educating the new shooter, not the weekend warrior. That's why God gave us the Haleys and Costas out there -- young, fit, reputable bona fides and a zeal for making wannabe operators. Good for them AND for their students! I'd train with guys like that in a heartbeat, but not because the skills that I would learn would likely be of any practical benefit. With a son who is a Marine infantryman, I see learning to manipulate my ARs and becoming proficient with them as a way to nurture a mutual interest and bond with him a bit. I can't fool him -- he's been there, done that. I'm just a wannabe.
Do I worry that my "tactical girth" will cause potential new students to avoid my instruction in shooting fundamentals? I doubt it. If anything, I think that there's a segment of new shooters out there who would learn BETTER from a somewhat pudgy, old, bald guy than from a slim, trim, bearded operator with cool Oakleys and an operator's ball cap. It's one thing to be taught fundamentals by a LEO or combat vet ... but there's merit to have an instructor who is just an average Joe who has the head knowledge AND a heart for teaching (with some solid shooting ability, of course.)
As others have said, it all depends on what kind of training you're looking for and what your personal biases are. I have to laugh when I read, for example, advice from skinny guys on how best to conceal a handgun. It's a whole different issue when there's some tactical girth to contend with. Until you've grown that kind of girth, it's apples and oranges. I'm planning to get serious about getting myself in better shape someday. Until then, however, I think there's room at the table for fat guys.
with Harry Potter scars!
I don't really care much for the fitness level of the instructor... it is no where near as important to my own fitness level. A little frail old white guy taught Mike Tyson to knock people stiff....
I will say, that no matter your body type, a little exercise goes a very long way. If you are training for survival situations... at the very least consider doing AT LEAST 30 min of exercise 3 times a week.... If you don't want to run, then stretch or walk or do some calisthenics. Do anything to keep your body moving.
All of this "I'm 45 years old, 7' tall, 420lbs and refuse to exercise, and I don't care because I can pull the trigger just fine" talk is all fine and dandy now... but how about in 10 years? 20 years?
I won't preach to anyone that they need to lose weight, but as the manager of a fitness facility, I would caution EVERYONE... regardless of your weight/age/gender to spend at least a little time keeping everything moving. Simply doing a little resistance training and a little cardio exercise... regardless if you eat like a dumptruck and continue to gain weight, will at the very least help maintain whatever fitness level you currently have. A little bit of fitness can go a very long way in maintaining your mobility.
If you don't use it... you WILL lose it.
I will say, that no matter your body type, a little exercise goes a very long way. If you are training for survival situations... at the very least consider doing AT LEAST 30 min of exercise 3 times a week.... If you don't want to run, then stretch or walk or do some calisthenics. Do anything to keep your body moving.
All of this "I'm 45 years old, 7' tall, 420lbs and refuse to exercise, and I don't care because I can pull the trigger just fine" talk is all fine and dandy now... but how about in 10 years? 20 years?
I won't preach to anyone that they need to lose weight, but as the manager of a fitness facility, I would caution EVERYONE... regardless of your weight/age/gender to spend at least a little time keeping everything moving. Simply doing a little resistance training and a little cardio exercise... regardless if you eat like a dumptruck and continue to gain weight, will at the very least help maintain whatever fitness level you currently have. A little bit of fitness can go a very long way in maintaining your mobility.
If you don't use it... you WILL lose it.
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