Physical fitness of firearms instructors

[HICKMAN]

Right, so let me give this more than my previous drive by posting. While everyone is hemming and hawing because it appears they may have offended someone, let me see if I actually can.

you mean people get offended on the internet??

 

[Gabriel]

While everyone is hemming and hawing because it appears they may have offended someone...

I like fat people.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I've seen large men get winded fast and long before they were able to end the fight. I've seen them be limited in maneuverability by their size and not able to KEEP ahold of the smaller opponent to be able to do any sufficient damage, assuming they knew how to cause any if they kept ahold.

Are we picking a tag team partner or a shooting instructor?

 

[Sylvain]

It would be interesting to see if James Yeager (who used to be chubby in the past) is getting more students now that he's more fit.

If you could pick between "fat James" and "fit James" to be your instructor which one would you pick?

 

[the1kidd03]

Are we picking a tag team partner or a shooting instructor?

Well if we're going to take comments out of context I suppose we could apply it any way we want.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Are we picking a tag team partner or a shooting instructor?

To borrow a line from Larry the Cable Guy: Now that's funny, I don't care who you are."

 

[the1kidd03]

It would be interesting to see if James Yeager (who used to be chubby in the past) is getting more students now that he's more fit.

If you could pick between "fat James" and "fit James" to be your instructor which one would you pick?

The first time I ever heard of him was through a clip of him on that TV show competition. This was right after my separation from the Corps and I was still very much in that frame of mind. I thought it was rather funny at the time and thought he really wasn't putting out much effort to speak of. He seems to have dramatically improved his condition since then though.

 

[Turf Doctor]

Ok, define physically fit. Strong does not necessarily equal tough, no more than the size of the individual equals fit. I did a bicycle training race several years back and had my ass handed to me by a guy that I thought I could out ride.

Depending on the type of firearm training one is after, such as maybe some combat-type moves, it might make a difference. There are coaches and trainers that know how to train someone that may not be able to do the task as well as who they may be training.

 

[Que]

I know it has been a few months since I have seen you Coach, but I don't believe you are 300 pounds.

I've never trained with him, but recalling the Times I've seen him at MCFG he's not in the fat category, IMO.

 

[Denny347]

Mentioned only briefly in another recent thread, I thought I'd bring up the elephant in the room as it relates to training.

How important of a role does a firearms instructor's personal physical fitness level play for you in deciding who to train with?

Looking at the instructors I'm familiar with, they run the entire spectrum. Do you gravitate toward fit instructors over all others? Do you find that those less-than-athletic folks are more personable to real world situations? Does it even matter, because we're talking about shooting guns and not running marathons? Do you hold other attributes like teaching style, personality, real-world experience, or pure shooting skill higher in priority than fitness level?

Do fit students gravitate toward fit instructors? Do less fit students gravitate toward less fit instructors? Vice-versa?

For me, I'm not an athletic person. I didn't play organized sports in school, and I hate exercise. Intellectually I know it's important and I'd like to be more athletic, but if I'm honest with myself I haven't made it a priority in my life. At 29-years-old and 5'11" and 213lbs I'm overweight but not disabled because of it. I can run and fight in short bursts but I get tired quickly. The more I train the more it becomes apparent that I need to enhance my physical fitness level. Doing so would increase my chance of survival, just as much as being a good shooter will, or being aware of my surroundings, etc. It's one thing to know how to fight-- it's another to actually be able to last in one.

So for me, continuing to be honest with myself, I do feel better about instructors who are physically fit. I guess I feel like they are setting a good example and giving me something to strive for beyond just shooting ability. I see it as having a more holistic approach to defense as opposed to one that is weighted toward tools only.

But that's not to say that I don't think non-athletes should be firearms instructors. I know some great instructors who are larger than I am, and probably couldn't run as far. And I've learned some great things about shooting from them. I also admire their ability to teach and communicate. And they're good people.

So while I personally do put some stock in it, I also find other factors to be just as important.

What about you? (be honest)

I'm a firearms instructor for my department, I'm a combatives instructor as well, and a CrossFit instructor. My personal opinion is I strive to be better than those I teach. It doesn't always happen but I strive for it. The better shape you are in the easier it will be to deal the stress of "combat". The firearm is just a tool. The operator is the actual weapon. Mind and body are inseparable. As an instructor I try to lead by example. I cannot very well teach something I am not. But that is just my opinion.

 

[Denny347]

Ok, define physically fit. Strong does not necessarily equal tough, no more than the size of the individual equals fit. I did a bicycle training race several years back and had my ass handed to me by a guy that I thought I could out ride.

Depending on the type of firearm training one is after, such as maybe some combat-type moves, it might make a difference. There are coaches and trainers that know how to train someone that may not be able to do the task as well as who they may be training.

Move your body weight when needed. Pull yourself over a wall, run, climb. Weight is irrelevant. Ability is king. Trainers should always strive to be the rabbit with the students chasing...metaphorically.

 

[bwframe]

[video=youtube_share;4UErIqKJ35Y]http://youtu.be/4UErIqKJ35Y[/video]

 

[Gabriel]

Move your body weight when needed. Pull yourself over a wall, run, climb. Weight is irrelevant. Ability is king. Trainers should always strive to be the rabbit with the students chasing...metaphorically.

This has always been my opinion on the matter. Every class I have taken has been a LE only school, so that may be why I have a harsher view on what physical shape the instructor should be in.

 

[bingley]

I cannot very well teach something I am not.

What happens when you are old, weak, and less physically capable? Will you be able to teach something you WERE?

If not, then we can also conclude that football players cannot be coached by the older, less physically capable, but experienced former players. But if so, then we will have to conclude that fitness is not essential. Perhaps being able to do what you preach at some point and having plenty of experiences to draw from would be essential, but probably not being currently fit. I don't dispute the fact that when you're barely able to walk because of sciatica, knee replacement, and old age, you are a far less capable weapon than when you were young. But there's gotta be some room for the mind part, when you have knowledge, and the ability to pass on that precious knowledge.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Move your body weight when needed. Pull yourself over a wall, run, climb. Weight is irrelevant. Ability is king. Trainers should always strive to be the rabbit with the students chasing...metaphorically.

So what happens if you have an injured or aging trainer? Someone who can no longer "rabbit" but is still a wealth of information and a seasoned instructor? Throw that resource away because of lack of physical ability?

Not directed at Denny in particular, but a lot of folks seem to be associating lack of physical ability with obesity. There's more than one road to lack of physical ability. There's a lot of wounded or "well seasoned" warriors out there who can still be incredibly valuable as a trainer even if they can no longer be in the field. Its wasteful to ignore that. I was half joking when I asked if we were picking a shooting instructor or a tag team partner, but honestly think about that. You aren't looking for someone who can go to war with you, you are looking for someone who can teach you how to go to war. (whatever context "war" may be, from actual combat to surviving an armed robbery).

 

[Denny347]

What happens when you are old, weak, and less physically capable? Will you be able to teach something you WERE?

If not, then we can also conclude that football players cannot be coached by the older, less physically capable, but experienced former players. But if so, then we will have to conclude that fitness is not essential. Perhaps being able to do what you preach at some point and having plenty of experiences to draw from would be essential, but probably not being currently fit. I don't dispute the fact that when you're barely able to walk because of sciatica, knee replacement, and old age, you are a far less capable weapon than when you were young. But there's gotta be some room for the mind part, when you have knowledge, and the ability to pass on that precious knowledge.

I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. At 40 I'm FAR from old but I can run circles around most of our "20 something" rookies. If injured, you do the best you can, some things are outside of your control. That doesn't mean I give up. There is a retired Lt that I know that still comes to the gym 3 days a week like clockwork and works out...he's 85. I strive to be like that. This is just my LE biased opinion, right or wrong that is how I view the world I'm in.

 

[Denny347]

So what happens if you have an injured or aging trainer? Someone who can no longer "rabbit" but is still a wealth of information and a seasoned instructor? Throw that resource away because of lack of physical ability?

Not directed at Denny in particular, but a lot of folks seem to be associating lack of physical ability with obesity. There's more than one road to lack of physical ability. There's a lot of wounded or "well seasoned" warriors out there who can still be incredibly valuable as a trainer even if they can no longer be in the field. Its wasteful to ignore that. I was half joking when I asked if we were picking a shooting instructor or a tag team partner, but honestly think about that. You aren't looking for someone who can go to war with you, you are looking for someone who can teach you how to go to war. (whatever context "war" may be, from actual combat to surviving an armed robbery).

I have no problem with that. That is outside your control. I said that is a goal I strive for but life happens, I know that. Do the best with what you have. I am talking about the things you DO have control over. I've always said that the true weapon is in your head, not in your hand. But a true warrior was not born that way. He/she built themselves into one and it will still show even if they are advancing in years or injured.

 

[the1kidd03]

I'm a firearms instructor for my department, I'm a combatives instructor as well, and a CrossFit instructor. My personal opinion is I strive to be better than those I teach. It doesn't always happen but I strive for it. The better shape you are in the easier it will be to deal the stress of "combat". The firearm is just a tool. The operator is the actual weapon. Mind and body are inseparable. As an instructor I try to lead by example. I cannot very well teach something I am not. But that is just my opinion.

This is essentially the philosophy and mindset of the Corps and how it/they/we view training. "One mind, any weapon." "Lead by example." etc.

 

[Coach]

I know it has been a few months since I have seen you Coach, but I don't believe you are 300 pounds.

Believe it. I just carry it well. I have been between 293.5 pounds and 308 since 1995.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have no problem with that. That is outside your control. I said that is a goal I strive for but life happens, I know that. Do the best with what you have. I am talking about the things you DO have control over. I've always said that the true weapon is in your head, not in your hand. But a true warrior was not born that way. He/she built themselves into one and it will still show even if they are advancing in years or injured.

Sooo...do you think it matters if an instructor is physically fit? I'm now confused on where you stand on the topic at hand.