Open Carry Incident - Vincennes

[churchmouse]

well my generation (kids of the late 70's and on) didnt cause the problems in this country now or vote for the clowns pre bush# 2. It's the "older folks" who have screwed it up for us grandkids and we will be the ones who WILL fix it. We have fought in the longest wars in U.S. History and come home to have to fix this mess here and I'm sure what its eventualy gonna come down to. So before you check out on us how about you educate yourself on what the real problems and enemies of our country are please

Do you seriously think I voted for or was on board with any of the crap we are dealing with.....Hell no. I have been disgusted for many, many years but to what end.

I know my generation had something to do with this but not as you are stating. I am fully aware of what we are facing. I just do not see it being dealt with. I do not see this crop dealing with the issues at hand.
Not the broad brush some say I am using but generalizing how I see the world. There are some that want change, will do what they can but face it, we are being outnumbered. Those riding the Gov. Teet are growing daily.
OC events are one way and they work for those who do it. My way works as well. We all do what we can. I am and will continue to do all I can to effect change.

Unfortunately what those involved see as a war (which it is) these actions are viewed differently by the sheeple and those pulling the strings. If it were truly a war you would have been supplied better and let run the thing as a war and not a police action. If done properly it would be done and over with. That so many have paid the price for this saddens me beyond words.

We as a family are raising the kids to see through the crap and look at the world through clear eyes. I hope we are successful.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

As someone mentioned up thread, and in previous similar threads, many, if not most of these situations can be avoided by getting the dispatchers taking the MWAG calls some decent training. I would venture to guess that they probably get the least amount of the training budgets sent their way.

If they would be trained to qualify the caller and the facts the caller can observe, these scenes would undoubtedly go much better.

Is the MWAG holding it in his hand? Is it being pointed at anyone. Are they acting suspiciously? Is the MWAG threatening anyone? Gather some info for crying out loud.

If some very simple questions with a yes or no answer would be asked, the dispatcher could relay that info to the LEO ad quite possibly keep them from getting all amped up on adrenaline and reacting in the manner as described by the OP. Instead, they get dispatched to a scene that they have no intel on, other than a guy with a rifle at a McDonalds. Putting myself in their shoes, I would have an adrenaline rush going too.

As it is now, they are being sent to a scene totally blind, with all sorts of scenarios playing out in their heads, rather than anticipating a guy with a slung rifle eating a Big Mac.

Focus on the dispatcher training, please, for everyone's sake.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I don't live close to you, so I have no idea on "local" incidents. I do know that I have read statistic after statistic that shows violent crime has dropped (even property crime). I cannot keep my own statistics, therefore I must rely on others' stats. If you have evidence that shows the opposite, I would like to read it.

I wonder... Ask yourself this. "Who" gathers and distributes those statics and would they have a reason to "cook the books?" In my individual experience, I have noticed more people doing bad things than say, when I first got on the job.

 

[churchmouse]

History has already made a liar out of you. Change isn't done by maintaining the status quo either. And confrontation doesn't have to be aggressive or in your face or violent. I would argue that this wasn't confrontation anyway, but I see where you're going with the loose definition of it. Blacks didn't get out from the back of the bus because they kept on using the "colored" restrooms and restaurants. Gays didn't normalize homosexual behavior by staying in the proverbial closet. Solidarity didn't succeed because the Poles just bowed their heads and kept taking it up the tail pipe. The Berlin Wall didn't fall because people gave up and accepted it as the norm forever. Sit-ins, marches, sermons from the pulpit. Activity brings change. Why else do we have OC events at the Capital? Just saying.

I see your point but please know that we are not maintaining any status quo. We are working towards the same goals. We are just not in the streets banging the drum. We are doing our part and making converts. Is this wrong in some way. I agree with the other approach but that was not the point of my post. A well organized gathering is one thing....doing what these fellas did serves no constructive purpose towards the goals we all are seeking. It was confrontational in nature and seems to have inflamed many.
It has caused some spirited debate and I could see that as a positive.
I just think you missed or overlooked the intent of my post.

 

[Trigger Time]

Do you seriously think I voted for or was on board with any of the crap we are dealing with.....Hell no. I have been disgusted for many, many years but to what end.

I know my generation had something to do with this but not as you are stating. I am fully aware of what we are facing. I just do not see it being dealt with. I do not see this crop dealing with the issues at hand.
Not the broad brush some say I am using but generalizing how I see the world. There are some that want change, will do what they can but face it, we are being outnumbered. Those riding the Gov. Teet are growing daily.
OC events are one way and they work for those who do it. My way works as well. We all do what we can. I am and will continue to do all I can to effect change.

Unfortunately what those involved see as a war (which it is) these actions are viewed differently by the sheeple and those pulling the strings. If it were truly a war you would have been supplied better and let run the thing as a war and not a police action. If done properly it would be done and over with. That so many have paid the price for this saddens me beyond words.

We as a family are raising the kids to see through the crap and look at the world through clear eyes. I hope we are successful.

I have no question that you aren't one that supported what has happened to our rights. My point is not all of the younger generation are the same either. Actually the percentage of those on govt assistance was going down under bush due to new regulation and enforcement. Welfare and Medicare isn't even a real percentage of the real issues we face. That's just how they keep the zombies riled up to come vote their sorry asses into office.
You may not have confidence that we have the resolve to finaly do what's necessary to fix it but I do.

 

[churchmouse]

I don't live close to you, so I have no idea on "local" incidents. I do know that I have read statistic after statistic that shows violent crime has dropped (even property crime). I cannot keep my own statistics, therefore I must rely on others' stats. If you have evidence that shows the opposite, I would like to read it.

Talk to LEO...look around. Those doing the serious crimes are younger, more violent and without fear. This is a growing problem.
I get your point but do a real world look around.
In the last 2 years I was in a service truck I had more problems than all the years before. I would go no where without being armed. POS dirt bags know where the tools/money and profit are to be had. They are fearless.

 

[Kutnupe14]

As someone mentioned up thread, and in previous similar threads, many, if not most of these situations can be avoided by getting the dispatchers taking the MWAG calls some decent training. I would venture to guess that they probably get the least amount of the training budgets sent their way.

If they would be trained to qualify the caller and the facts the caller can observe, these scenes would undoubtedly go much better.

Is the MWAG holding it in his hand? Is it being pointed at anyone. Are they acting suspiciously? Is the MWAG threatening anyone? Gather some info for crying out loud.

If some very simple questions with a yes or no answer would be asked, the dispatcher could relay that info to the LEO ad quite possibly keep them from getting all amped up on adrenaline and reacting in the manner as described by the OP. Instead, they get dispatched to a scene that they have no intel on, other than a guy with a rifle at a McDonalds. Putting myself in their shoes, I would have an adrenaline rush going too.

As it is now, they are being sent to a scene totally blind, with all sorts of scenarios playing out in their heads, rather than anticipating a guy with a slung rifle eating a Big Mac.

Focus on the dispatcher training, please, for everyone's sake.

It's not the dispathers... it's the people calling them. People tend to embellish stories to get a police response. For instance, and unfortunately, I have been dispatched to a number of "suspicious black man calls." The dispatchers try to clear the nonsense, but callers always use the keywords "suspicious," "casing homes," or something else that requires a response. Trust me, you fell 2 inches tall when you talk to a guy and he points out his house, right down the road. What worse, is that they blame police (even the black ones, lol) for being racist.

 

[churchmouse]

I have no question that you aren't one that supported what has happened to our rights. My point is not all of the younger generation are the same either. Actually the percentage of those on govt assistance was going down under bush due to new regulation and enforcement. Welfare and Medicare isn't even a real percentage of the real issues we face. That's just how they keep the zombies riled up to come vote their sorry asses into office.
You may not have confidence that we have the resolve to finaly do what's necessary to fix it but I do.

Young men such as your self....yes, I have hope. Some of the lazy give me crowd I am holding out no hope for. As to the Zombies, you all know how I feel about them. Nuff said.

 

[Trigger Time]

I see your point but please know that we are not maintaining any status quo. We are working towards the same goals. We are just not in the streets banging the drum. We are doing our part and making converts. Is this wrong in some way. I agree with the other approach but that was not the point of my post. A well organized gathering is one thing....doing what these fellas did serves no constructive purpose towards the goals we all are seeking. It was confrontational in nature and seems to have inflamed many.
It has caused some spirited debate and I could see that as a positive.
I just think you missed or overlooked the intent of my post.

I don't think its necessary to carry a rifle on my back but it's legal!!! Unprotected sex with strangers isn't smart either but its legal! I do not comprehend how people are saying what the police did here was right?? We all should be outraged, and frankly the ones who aren't outraged at the police action in this incident ARE part of the problem.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Talk to LEO...look around. Those doing the serious crimes are younger, more violent and without fear. This is a growing problem.
I get your point but do a real world look around.
In the last 2 years I was in a service truck I had more problems than all the years before. I would go no where without being armed. POS dirt bags know where the tools/money and profit are to be had. They are fearless.

+2, in my first years hired, I was tusslin' with old people off their meds, drunks, and domestic abusers. In the past few years, more and more, I've been fighting 18 year old thieving kids, high young adults, and random batterers.

 

[SteveM4A1]

I wonder... Ask yourself this. "Who" gathers and distributes those statics and would they have a reason to "cook the books?" In my individual experience, I have noticed more people doing bad things than say, when I first got on the job.

I'm sorry, but I will rely on statistics over anecdotal evidence any day of the week. And I agree, they do have reasons to cook the books, but unfortunately I cannot get those statistics anywhere else.

Talk to LEO...look around. Those doing the serious crimes are younger, more violent and without fear. This is a growing problem.
I get your point but do a real world look around.
In the last 2 years I was in a service truck I had more problems than all the years before. I would go no where without being armed. POS dirt bags know where the tools/money and profit are to be had. They are fearless.

Same as above. I do BELIEVE that crime is about to trend upwards, both violent and property crime. I do not have statistics to support this though. Just because I believe this doesn't make it so, just the same as anyone else.

 

[churchmouse]

I don't think its necessary to carry a rifle on my back but it's legal!!! Unprotected sex with strangers isn't smart either but its legal! I do not comprehend how people are saying what the police did here was right?? We all should be outraged, and frankly the ones who aren't outraged at the police action in this incident ARE part of the problem.

I do not in any way condone the LEO response to this. It was wrong and disciplinary action should be in the works for them. They went outside their authority in my mind.
My opinions/posts are what we can do to avoid these incidents, Not a tow the line...status quo thing at all. Just a common sense approach until such time as we are not looked at as the problem.

 

[Trigger Time]

+2, in my first years hired, I was tusslin' with old people off their meds, drunks, and domestic abusers. In the past few years, more and more, I've been fighting 18 year old thieving kids, high young adults, and random batterers.

Must have had abussive drugged and drunk parents that didn't spank or teach them anything about right and wrong!

 

[Trigger Time]

I do not in any way condone the LEO response to this. It was wrong and disciplinary action should be in the works for them. They went outside their authority in my mind.
My opinions/posts are what we can do to avoid these incidents, Not a tow the line...status quo thing at all. Just a common sense approach until such time as we are not looked at as the problem.

amen! I've posted before that I believe the 2a marches and rally's at the statehouse are stupid and just a feel good response to make some gun owners feel like they have done something but in reality have done nothing but harm public opinion. Who cares of it educates 50 people that don't even own guns, that they can open carry legally? What still does some good in our state is writing firm but professional letters emails and making phone calls to the elected officials. Federally this country is ****ed !

 

[churchmouse]

I'm sorry, but I will rely on statistics over anecdotal evidence any day of the week. And I agree, they do have reasons to cook the books, but unfortunately I cannot get those statistics anywhere else.



Same as above. I do BELIEVE that crime is about to trend upwards, both violent and property crime. I do not have statistics to support this though. Just because I believe this doesn't make it so, just the same as anyone else.

You are well within your rights to see this as you wish. I am not being anecdotal. I am stating what I see.

 

[churchmouse]

It has been swell but the swelling is going down. Have much to do. I will let you all solve the rest of the worlds problems. Duty calls...........

 

[SteveM4A1]

You are well within your rights to see this as you wish. I am not being anecdotal. I am stating what I see.

Without going into detail as to the fallacies with only taking your samples, that is fine. Everyone needs to be prepared, that is for sure.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Must have had abussive drugged and drunk parents that didn't spank or teach them anything about right and wrong!

Do you KNOW how many people DON'T spank their kids???? I used to get my tail beat so much, that today, I still fear house shoes, dish rags, belts, combs, switches, and above all Hot Wheels tracks.

Kut (has flashbacks walking down toy aisles)

 

[chezuki]

Wow, this thread is still going...

 

[Dead Duck]

+2, in my first years hired, I was tusslin' with old people off their meds, drunks, and domestic abusers. In the past few years, more and more, I've been fighting 18 year old thieving kids, high young adults, and random batterers.

I didn't know you had to deal with these guys.