Open Carry Incident - Vincennes

[CZB1962]

So, Rights are contingent on Social Acceptability..

Of course not. But the battle to take your rights away is.

All I am saying is be smart about what you do. Fight for your right to own the gun in the first place. Always pushing the limits just for the sake of pushing the limits only harms the cause IMO.

 

[OWGEM]

What speaks volumes to me is that many here accept the story lock stock and barrel. Anyone who is willing to carry an AR into a McD and videos the cops is probably capable of exaggeration. Just saying.

 

[JMoses]

What speaks volumes to me is that many here accept the story lock stock and barrel. Anyone who is willing to carry an AR into a McD and videos the cops is probably capable of exaggeration. Just saying.

Bingo!

 

[DragonGunner]

What speaks volumes to me is that some people think that what the LEOs in this case did was acceptable.

There was nothing acceptable about the way they handled this. The most they should have done was politely approached the person with the rifle and asked them to leave if the store manager wanted them to.

Exactly. And this thread is worthless without pictures......never happened IMHO.

 

[chezuki]

What speaks volumes to me is that many here accept the story lock stock and barrel. Anyone who is willing to carry an AR into a McD and videos the cops is probably capable of exaggeration. Just saying.

Lol, especially when said video is mysteriously lost to technical difficulties.

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

 

[A 7.62 Exodus]

What speaks volumes to me is that some people think that what the LEOs in this case did was acceptable.

There was nothing acceptable about the way they handled this. The most they should have done was politely approached the person with the rifle and asked them to leave if the store manager wanted them to.

I should add to this, in this particular case, it WAS acceptable. I spoke to a LEO pal of mine, whom just so happens to live Vincennes. I was hoping he had some insight into this incident. He told me the officers probably acted like this because of multiple armed robberies at this McDonalds. As well as multiple threats taking place involving firearms. They were responding as if something was going down, which has happened MULTIPLE times at this location

 

[A 7.62 Exodus]

What speaks volumes to me is that many here accept the story lock stock and barrel. Anyone who is willing to carry an AR into a McD and videos the cops is probably capable of exaggeration. Just saying.

I completely missed the part where OP stated he recorded the whole thing. This is now a closed case for me. They wanted to see if something would happen if they OCed an AR15, and it did. Now let's go tell an online forum we got exactly what we were looking for!!!

 

[Delmar]

I have a question though. Does the individual carrying the rifle have a LTCH? Or is that the reason he WAS carrying a rifle, because he DOESN'T have a LTCH? This would make sense to me. Friend doesn't have a LTCH, and wants to fit in with his OCing friends, so he grabs his AR15 to take to a fast food joint

If I didn't have a LTCH and wanted to OC I would strap on a cap and ball revolver. I also have a 20 ga shotgun with a pistol grip that fits nicely in a pool cue soft case. It isn't exactly OC but it is kind of fun to take along.

 

[Lebowski]

I should add to this, in this particular case, it WAS acceptable. I spoke to a LEO pal of mine, whom just so happens to live Vincennes. I was hoping he had some insight into this incident. He told me the officers probably acted like this because of multiple armed robberies at this McDonalds. As well as multiple threats taking place involving firearms. They were responding as if something was going down, which has happened MULTIPLE times at this location

DISPATCH: Sir, sir, calm down. What are the armed robbers doign right now?
McD's Manager: They're... they're... <panting> ordering food, one got a BigMac. The other a #7 meal... I don't know about the third...
DISPATCH: You're doing a good job. Stay calm. We have officers on the way.
McD's Manager: OH GOD! <inaudible>
DISPATCH: Hello? Are you there? Talk to me. What happened?
McD's Manager: They're sitting down and eating. They're sitting down and eating god damnit! <sobs> *whipsers* Please save me.
DISPATCH: Just hang tight, officers will be there soon.

 

[Combsie]

Stupid is as stupid does...

 

[A 7.62 Exodus]

Just stating the facts here folks. Blast me if you will, but I'll stick to my guns on this one. That is of course, until I get hungry and take my AR15 with me to get food to try and see if the cops show up and then act all surprised when they do

 

[Lebowski]

While I find freedrom trolls annoying, I sure as hell support their right.

Would I carry an AR (assuming I had one) in public? Not very likely. Would I carry one inside a fastfood chain? Even less likely. Do I support other people's rights to do so? Sure do.

I'm an introvert. The less attention I can draw to myself, the better. Just leave me a lone so I can eat my cheeseburger alone while I face this wall.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

One of those subjects that vary from day to day with me. My natural instinct is to stir the sh$t. But I'm not sure if want to take 4 hours of my life trying to eat a hamburger and fries at Micky D's. Not sure on which side of the fence I fall on this one yet! Gotta choose your battles. Pick the ones we can win.

 

[88GT]

Ok, name one reason that doesn't translate to "in your face, because I CAN!!"

"I can" doesn't have to be "in your face." You're changing the parameters. But to answer your question: "I want to."

Everyone judges to an extent. I'd wager the ones who spend the most time claiming not to are among the worst offenders.

Missed the point.

Lol, really? With all the active shooter scenarios that seem to be at least a weekly occurrence, the officers have to be prepared for the worst. If I rolled in hot to a situation ready for the worst and mentally prepared to do whatever it takes up to and including giving my life to resolve the situation, you bet I'd be pissed to find some douche with a Big Mac with a rifle crying for attention.

You think that becoming angry is a natural response to a LEO as he responds to a crime (which in this case wasn't a crime)? Angry? Why on earth would he become angry?

Not sure how this is relevant, but I'd assume a rustang from the era of mullets and leg warmers?

It's relevant. And if you'd been paying attention, you'd know that the Gt is out of commission. Why are you trying to be so insulting?

See above.

Saw it. I still don't understand why someone has to become angry that a citizen is exercising his rights.

No, but you can certainly use historical evidence to draw a likely conclusion. The fact that they weren't disarmed of their handguns speaks volumes on the matter.

What evidence would that be? Oh, do you think people who take long guns out of the house and into other buildings to shoot people stop at McD's first to have lunch? Yeah, I can see your point now.

[/B]Exactly, and it's lost on the part of many gun owners.

It's not lost. We understand that there are those who want to hide and kowtow to others. Some of us refuse to do so. Change doesn't happen by maintaining the status quo.

Of course not. But the battle to take your rights away is.

How do you propose fighting that battle? With words on Facebook and Twitter?

All I am saying is be smart about what you do. Fight for your right to own the gun in the first place.

I'd like to fight to exercise all of the rights associated with RKBA. Not just ownership.

Always pushing the limits just for the sake of pushing the limits only harms the cause IMO.

Incorrect. Pushing the limits is the only way change happens. See also: Civil rights and gay "pride." The constant pushing at the societal boundaries is the only reason those causes made any progress. Sitting on the sidelines doesn't win the game.

Carrying a long gun in public is foolish only because LE has to be ridiculous in its response. We let society define our battle for us. Instead of trying to distance ourselves from the ones who carry long guns and OC, we should support them. When John Q. Public asks, "Why would he do that?" we shouldn't respond with "I know right." We should respond with "Why shouldn't he?" Change the paradigm. Change the battleground. Make them support the position that people shouldn't be doing something. If this is a battle of public opinion, how does letting them define what's acceptable ever result in a win for us?

 

[pute62]

I can't really see the point of carrying a AR into McDonalds but then again,I can't see the point of eating at McDonalds in the first place. Hell,their food is deadlier than any gun.

 

[Roadie]

Of course not. But the battle to take your rights away is.

All I am saying is be smart about what you do. Fight for your right to own the gun in the first place. Always pushing the limits just for the sake of pushing the limits only harms the cause IMO.

Certain groups have fought for their Rights over the years, most of them VERY vocally, and VERY "in your face", and very much "pushed the limits" of what was deemed acceptable at that time.... those groups won their Rights, or are winning more Rights as time progresses.

Why do you think the passivity approach works better for gun owners?

(EDIT: I see 88GT beat me to the punch..lol)

 

[Que]

1. He was carrying a long gun for two reasons: A) To see if something like this would happen, and it did.

Now what? I understand he didn't have a LTCH, but his real purpose was to see if he could get attention. My questions is, what happens now? The cops were called and a huge scene was made. The thread was posted on INGO; too bad the video was not saved. But now what? What is going to be done to ensure this doesn't happen again?

This is what I really hate about the attention getters. They just want the attention, but do not care what blowback that attention brings. Anyone could have told you what would happen. So, when is the lawsuit going to be filed?

If the guy was truly carrying the AR because he refuses to pay the fee to exercise a right, then I would be totally behind him, but I don't see that as being his main objective.

 

[Kutnupe14]

It's not lost. We understand that there are those who want to hide and kowtow to others. Some of us refuse to do so. Change doesn't happen by maintaining the status quo.

Actually, "kowtow," is exactly what they are doing. Off ALL the gun rights we DON'T have, these activist want to focus on something that we're already allowed to do? For as much as I can't stand that moron Adam Kokesh, he a guy that puts his money where his mouth is. He's focused on rights that are DENIED to the people, not those that we are free to express already. If these "OC a long gun" types think they're doing such a service, why don't they express the rights that they should have, rather than the ones they already have. It's cowardice. They'd rather be on the "right" side of the law rather than run afoul of it and risk getting in trouble fighting for the rights they actually should have.

For instance, all those knuckleheads in California started OC'ing long guns when it made illegal to OC handguns. They loved to make their little vids and show the world how they were "expressing their rights." ....and then California made OC'ing long guns illegal, and I haven't seen a vid out of that place since. It smart money would have been to challenge the handgun law directly rather than simply saying "welp, we lost that right, time to move on."

I can't stand "fair weather" activists, if something concerns someone so much they should be willing to stick their neck out and fight for it. It's a waste of time and energy to express a right that is legal, under the law, when that time could be better spent trying to expand laws that currently deny rights.

 

[bruno1371]

It wouldn't bother me to see someone carrying a long gun in a restaurant, I would definitely notice. That is of course if they handled it properly. I would hope they would exercise muzzle control at least and not be fumbling around with it. Sure doesn't seem smart though. Last thing I want to do is spend my time answering to law enforcement. I mean McDonald's sucks but that would definitely make it worse. Next time I'm sure you will have better video equipment. That'll show em.