As a personal choice, I do not OC because . . . well, it's my choice. Just as I expect anyone to accept my personal choice to CC, I accept the choice of others who OC. But, do you respect and accept the decision of the 5% of OCers who carry in that fashion just to "stand up for our rights?"
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OC mindset
- Thread starter Matt52
- Start date
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As a personal choice, I do not OC because . . . well, it's my choice. Just as I expect anyone to accept my personal choice to CC, I accept the choice of others who OC. But, do you respect and accept the decision of the 5% of OCers who carry in that fashion just to "stand up for our rights?"
No, I OC at times, but I'm not going to cause a scene while carrying a handgun. Especially when children are involved. Parents have to be extremely cautious nowadays. We're not in Mayberry anymore.
I want to gently coax the fence sitters. Not bombard them with my rights.
You're projecting your fear of people you do not know carrying weapons [legally] onto others [parents of children around you].
I've been around small children and their parents while OC thousands of times without issue, because I never make an issue out of it. If I were asked to leave due to OC'ing, then I would do just that - so long as the request comes from the property owner.
You can't have it both ways. You've labeled those of us that OC as "activists" but only when it's not you doing it - that's hypocrisy at it's finest.
Steelman, when I first moved to Indiana, I went to a Chinese Buffet where a guy was sitting in his chair with a .44 strapped to his hip. I was not at all familiar with the laws of Indiana, having just arrived from NC (Fort Bragg). I stared at him and he stared at me. It wasn't meant to be rude, but I just didn't know what was going on or what he intended to to.
Well, he ate his food and left. I got with my commander and learned that OC was legal in Indiana and never turned back. I probably would not have known that it was legal to carry in Indiana had it not been for that one day. Since then, I have NEVER seen another OCer in my daily activities, outside of INGO.
So, even though I wasn't a fence sitter, I was still ignorant of the law and most times people are not interested in the laws that do not directly effect them. I'm glad I ran into that OCer.
I can also say myself that I have never seen another OCer besides myself that wasn't an on-duty officer in all of the years I've lived here.
I've had a lot of positive experiences, and no negative experiences so far. I once had a woman who came up to me and asked if the gun was real or a squirtgun. I chuckled and told her that it was real, and she proceeded to explain that her son said it couldn't be real and that it had to be a squirtgun.
The boy had to be maybe 5 or 6. I told him that if he was good and followed the law that when he was an adult he could carry a gun too if he wanted, to which he said, "Reeeaaaallyyyyyyy?" It was a pretty good laugh for me, him, and his mom - and I do not know either of them. Obviously he wasn't old enough to understand the gravity of what I said, but the seed was planted that not all men with guns are bad.
I've heard more jokes like, "Well if the zombies come, I know who my best friend is." than anything else.
What if the property owner was a city park? Would you file lawsuit at the expense of the tax payers?
Did you know these families with small children personally? If not, were you merely passing by them in Wal-Mart or spending the day with them at the zoo/(insert recreational activity here)?
I'm not an OC activist, but if it is convenient to do so, I carry openly. I would not open carry in a bank. Just seems like the wrong venue to do so.
Am I some kind of red commie for not open carrying in a bank and advising other not to do so as well?
Still.....no epic points.......no "derogatory" posts..........this is fruitless. Sleep seems to be more intellectually stimulating at this point.
Hope you find someone else to argue with.
So, what crime has the 95% committed? You will never know if a criminal has been deterred simply because there was someone present OCing. I always say there would be less holdups if criminals walked into an establishment and saw 10 people OCing. But, what if it only takes one?
I find this funny because I've often encountered children with parents when I'm "out and about" OC'ing as I usually do. Just tonight even, my wife wanted to stop in at the Cold Stone Creamery. I held the door open for her and a lady who was with her two children. We were in front of her in the line and they obviously noticed both my wife and I OC'ing (as usual). I could hear the little boy ask his mom, " are those REAL guns?" His mom very politely said something to the effect of "yes, but hush don't be rude." I couldn't quite hear what she said exactly. Then I heard the boy say, "That's so cool."
I would have been glad to educate them or even offer to take them to a range sometime, had the opportunity came up. But, it didn't. She didn't ask me anything and seemed happy minding her business so I left it alone.
So, is this "cramming it down their throats?" When they obviously want to learn otherwise they wouldn't confront you in the first place.
More often then not, this leads to opportunities to educate, the people DO ask questions and it sparks their interest. It's important to let THEM guide the conversation. BUT, you simply don't get those opportunities to educate or "coax the fence sitters" when you don't provide that "spark" ( OC'ing ).
Good night ladies and gents.
They havent committed any crime either. I just believe alot of them do it to look cool. Now everyone has gotten all up in arms about it probably becasue most people on this forum do it in a respectable fashion but many people out there dont.
Due to the preemption law, I'd tell them to "pound sand."
Some yes, a great many of them not. I have been to the zoo, parks, wal-mart, etc... Here I go quoting myself (it's on the same page, but I'll save you some trouble) showing just one positive experience where I was in a place with small children and their parents.
I carry in the bank all the time. Being rational people, they realize that just because I have a gun, does not mean that I intend upon using it against them.
You are welcome to do or not do what you wish, and to advise what you wish, but nobody has to do as you do or take your advice. If you agree, no need to respond to this statement.
I'm not going to go back to point out my points, or your derogatory posts. If you want to see it, you're just as capable of going back and finding it as me.
Argue? Nah... Debate? Sure - I love a good debate. Debates and discussions go hand in hand, and this is a discussion forum.Hope you find someone else to argue with.
No, I believe there are very few OCers on INGO. That's not to say that many of us may choose to wear the Raven with a t-shirt tucked in once in a while, but most of the time, I believe a great majority conceal in some fashion.
Granted, there are some guys/gals that OC just to look cool. There are even some people who CC just to feel cool. Either way, it's their choice.
I'm not sure what a "respectable fashion" is, but maybe you can elaborate? As I said, I've not seen an OCer outside of an INGO event, so how many have you seen? And of that number, how many did you witness carrying in what you believe to be a non-proper fashion?
Shouldn't you be regurgitating case law that your lawyer mentioned? I'm anxiously awaiting a photo of the Jr. Litigator badge he's presenting you with.
I would task you with not smearing the names of good, responsible gun owners with your "slip-and-fall" legal shenanigans.
Maybe I already work for the NSA.
If I were in a petting zoo, with children running around, and a mother asked me if I could cover up my handgun - I would gladly comply. I see it as a courtesy to my fellow human being. I don't need to flop it out there and tell everyone to pound sand.
There are about 3.4 bajillion people responding to my threads. If I overlooked your "Masterpiece" - I'm truly sorry. PM the post number to me and I'll gladly respond point-by-point.
I had no idea anyone cared this much about what I thought or typed.
So they're scared of firearms that have been known to cause 12,000 deaths in the United States annually and this relates to Nasim the Computer Programmer turning out to be a nice guy once you get to know him?
NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.
Put down the thesaurus, sir. You've stretched your vocabulary beyond the specs.
What if the property owner was a city park? Would you file lawsuit at the expense of the tax payers?
Did you know these families with small children personally? If not, were you merely passing by them in Wal-Mart or spending the day with them at the zoo/(insert recreational activity here)?
I'm not an OC activist, but if it is convenient to do so, I carry openly. I would not open carry in a bank. Just seems like the wrong venue to do so.
Am I some kind of red commie for not open carrying in a bank and advising other not to do so as well?
Still.....no epic points.......no "derogatory" posts..........this is fruitless. Sleep seems to be more intellectually stimulating at this point.
Hope you find someone else to argue with.
I hate to
but a handful of sources for THIS^^^^ are supplied above. Also, note for brevity's sake that I believe "derogatory" might be getting mixed up with "condescending" in a few cases and I only grabbed a few quick ones and didn't waste more time going through every page. Not that I really care, but you asked for the posts.
So is that what happened to TF at the zoo? His projecting of feelings made the lady uncomfortable? Or maybe it was a reaction of seeing a gun in a place it was not expected?
Clearly from recent posts in this thread actually seeing OC 'in the wild' is very rare and it is not surprising that some folks(maybe many) have no idea of the possibility of that behavior being legal.
I don't think I have seen anyone state that you should never OC (in this thread). More of just perhaps being considerate to others should a situation arise where it might do more harm then good (to the overall big picture of promoting gun rights) to absolutely refuse to compromise.
What I, and I think others fear is that refusing to ever compromise to even the most benign request may help undo the positive direction the rights of gun owners (at least in Indiana) have been able to enjoy.
Oh no, now we've done it. ATM is here!
You wanna discuss this?
Ha! No.
You've done well trying to engage the root of the topic. Sorry they're dodging the logic and reasoning of your posts and only want to dwell on their own feelings and opinions.
Doesn't make for very interesting discussion, does it?
