OC Black Friday Meet and Lunch 11/26/10 Discussion Thread

[ironjaw]

This is where you are mistaken, my friend. You are thinking my concern is for you 10-20 folks. It is not! My concern is for 12,000 INGO members and many more thousand Indiana gun owners.

The fact that you can't see this is further proving my point.

Yes, you've done it before and you've done it so well that you still get 10-20 people to show up (out of 12,000.)

are you coming? just asking

 

[Lars]

Ok, call me crazy, but I see some irony here..

Ed is a Libertarian..
Yet, it is being advocated that we NOT pursue our own personal freedoms, but instead let a Politician do it for us??

Pursue your personal Freedom.

If it comes with consequences be sure to own up to the personal responsibility portion of that as well.

 

[Roadie]

Pursue your personal Freedom.

If it comes with consequences be sure to own up to the personal responsibility portion of that as well.

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

 

[ironjaw]

Pursue your personal Freedom.

If it comes with consequences be sure to own up to the personal responsibility portion of that as well.

is your real name Ed????

 

[Expat]

This is where you are mistaken, my friend. You are thinking my concern is for you 10-20 folks. It is not! My concern is for 12,000 INGO members and many more thousand Indiana gun owners.

The fact that you can't see this is further proving my point.

Yes, you've done it before and you've done it so well that you still get 10-20 people to show up (out of 12,000.)

I won't be there (I am almost in Michigan). You say your concern is for folks like me, don't worry. I will be fine as well. These guys are doing what they think is right to stand up for their rights and ours. You may not feel what they are doing is for you and that's fine. All over the state guys get on here and whine about getting disarmed by cops that don't understand the laws. If this educates a few when they read in the news that we can actually carry openly and there is nothing they can do about it because it is lawful behavior then I salute them. Maybe I won't end up thrown over the hood of my car because I have a pistol on my hip.

 

[Joe Williams]

This is where you are mistaken, my friend. You are thinking my concern is for you 10-20 folks. It is not! My concern is for 12,000 INGO members and many more thousand Indiana gun owners.

The fact that you can't see this is further proving my point.

Yes, you've done it before and you've done it so well that you still get 10-20 people to show up (out of 12,000.)

I happen to have the number of a reporter you can call if you'd like to express your misgivings. You can tell her what incompetent fools gun owners are. She'll eat it up!

 

[ATF Consumer]

I hope for the sake of all of us none of the above happens, and everything goes perfectly, that the heavens open and public opinion is swayed 100% in the opposite direction of where it currently is.

The nay sayers and the negative media spew make this public opinion you say isn't in our favor influence you...Wow
I think public opinion is more in our favor than you have been convinced.

 

[ironjaw]

bw ever come back to my post??

 

[Joe Williams]

"Push The Law To The Limit....."

Now, when the officer starts asking you questions like, can I see some ID, and you refuse because you don't legally have to provide it...... that's "Trying to get arrested"
snip.

NO IT IS NOT!!!
It's exercising our rights. Pure and simple. I am WILLING to be arrested in the course of exercising and fighting for my rights. But I'd be ecstatic if police officers obeyed the law and did not harass free Americans violating no law.

 

[Joe Williams]

"snip

It may very well lead to other city county councilors writing legislation prohibiting your right to carry rifles downtown. snip.

Any such legislation would be illegal.

 

[Roadie]

Rosa Parks may have been "trying to get arrested" too...

Just sayin..

 

[ATF Consumer]

Wait a minute...,MODS!!! please step in here and stop allowing all of these thread jacks...this is a scheduled event...is it not?

Why are all of the nay sayers allowed to continue to post in here?

Why don't they start their own thread somewhere else, other than the event thread?

Oh, wait...mods are contributing to this violation.

 

[henktermaat]

Wow. This thing really took a dive. I just saw the video.

 

[ironjaw]

Wait a minute...,MODS!!! please step in here and stop allowing all of these thread jacks...this is a scheduled event...is it not?

Why are all of the nay sayers allowed to continue to post in here?

Why don't they start their own thread somewhere else, other than the event thread?

Oh, wait...mods are contributing to this violation.

can they 'infrac' themselves?.......giggity giggity

 

[techres]

Yep, I'm willing to hear him retract his comment and show his support...

Have you picked up the phone and talked to him? I would suggest you do that if you can be helpful.

If I could add my two cents, which is close to what I wrote to SE for the first OC walk:

Decide your intent, and be clear in your hearts. If you are unclear, no one will learn a thing.

Once you have your clarity, share it clearly. Simple, concise, happy, and normal. Have it ready on paper, on your lips, and in your smiles. Anything less and no one will get any point and your time will be a waste (either of your time, your opportunity, or worse).

Pick a person to speak to the press who is happy and not reactionary and have them start the calls now. Explain, explain, explain.

Are you the people who are coming out of the gun owner closet and showing how normal you are and how people should not fear gun owners? If so, be really freaking normal and happy - nauseatingly so and leave anything else at home.

Are you the lawful gun owners exercising a right that you do not want to lose? If so, have a handout ready and a calm, respectful debater ready who is good at disarming with a calm understanding demeanor.

Are you the group out wanting to prove that you have a right an that you cannot be pushed around any more? If so, go somewhere where you cannot be pushed around legally, and be prepared with a bill of grievances that are clear and concise - no generalities and with them examples of what you want to see in the future. Again, pick one person who can speak convincingly about what you are trying to educate.

Personally, I remember the first walk as being mainly lesson one and it turned out well. I would advise (if anyone asked) that the first message is the easiest to do and has the best bonus, BUT you have damage control to fix your situation. And the following steps would be wise:

1. Press release explaining what you are doing, and start sending it now. All media, all gun stores, and the effected politicians. The media is trying to do the framing and you are letting them.

2. Get enemies lists out of your head. Get the idea that people owe you anything out too. What you need in your head is that you are there to educate and convince - not tax loyalties. The list of people who need convincing may be larger than you expect, but so what? If you goal is just your message will carry no matter the number who need convincing.

3. REMEMBER: You win by making friends, not by making enemies. Convince, disarm, calm down. You win by changing the norms, not by reinforcing fears of you. Law is on your side, until it changes. People change laws, people need to be convinced.

4. Stay positive in your presentation: This is fun, this is good, this is something anyone would want to do to have a good time. If you go negative and get angry, you are lost. Don't go that way.

5. Be clear. One message, a handful of supporting quotes. More than that and the waters muddy and the press will make a clear message on your behalf and it will not be the one you want.

That about covers it. Guys, you need friends. Instead of yelling at those who are concerned and calling them names which will only make your job far, far harder, you need to make friends by convincing allies of your sencere intent and goals. They do not need to agree, but they do need to be calmed and respected - not insulted.

Ego must be no part of the process or the event. This has to transcend each of you. If this is truly about the greater good, then take on the hard work that the mantle requires and plan/act/move accordingly.

God bless, and if you need some copy help, I am sure there are those who would help writing or other assistance even if they may not chose to be a part of the event itself.

Get your message clear, then start your moves from there. There is much work to do, and time is way behind already. But ain't that always the way...

Techres

 

[sj kahr k40]

I'm not qualified to to that job sir.

Since by your own admission you aren't qualified to be the media representative then I doubt you're qualified to criticize me or the members who walk.

Has a nice day

 

[bwframe]

are you coming? just asking

HELL NO!
It's a terrible idea!

Shock and fear is not the way. Nothing positive can come from this. Save for some to think they will turn into Internet heroes.

You want to be positive and educate, then be positive and educate.
Start your organization
Do positive events that benefit the community, litter clean up, fundrasers, etc.
Contact the media yourself with someone who represents well and gets their attention.

 

[esrice]

Wait a minute...,MODS!!! please step in here and stop allowing all of these thread jacks...this is a scheduled event...is it not?

Why are all of the nay sayers allowed to continue to post in here?

Why don't they start their own thread somewhere else, other than the event thread?

Oh, wait...mods are contributing to this violation.

That's up to the OP.

 

[esrice]

can they 'infrac' themselves?.......giggity giggity

We can, but we'll go blind.

 

[ATF Consumer]

That's up to the OP.

Are you serious????


I guess moderating a forum is like LEO's when they use selective enforcement.