OC at 4-H Fair. -1 Marshall County Reserve Officer

[Patternpimp]

Again +1 to the OP for standing up to himself and -1 to that specific police officer.

How did he stand up for himself? He left...

 

[Exodus]

Yeah maybe OP shouldn't have said do you want me to leave so early but you mean to say that if the LEO asked you to leave you wouldn't?

 

[DragonGunner]

Why shouldn't this reserve officer be held personally accountable for his actions? If I'm at work and mouth off to a customer and do so with bad information, you can bet for sure that I'll be held accountable and probably fired for it. Why should this officer get a pass? IT'S HIS JOB TO KNOW THE LAW.

Granted, there's a LOT of law to know, and there's no way to be an expert in all aspects of it, but that doesn't excuse him being unprofessional. Had he not been a jerk about it, likely this would not even have been a thread on INGO.

I agree...not sure what you read in my post....not saying he shouldn't be, but that his highers might let it go. Which they shouldn't.

 

[jedi]

That site is awesome! It took me 2 minutes to find what I couldn't find in two hours on the Lake county website.

So what did you learn about the LAKE COUNTY Fair ground then?

I'm sure a lot of you will be pissed but here it goes. I understand the whole open carry vs. concealed. I choose cc. If your "harassed" for lack of a better word right now. Cover the damn thing up and go about your business. Answering questions with questions, smart assed answers are only going to escalate the situation. People have a right to be scared. I'm not saying anyone should have been asked to leave. Maybe that option wouldn't have come to the officers mind had it not so poignantly been made an option! Some times it's easier to go with the flow and cover than make a point and upset people around you including your family.

They do? A "right"???? Hum.... Lucas says it best below..

They also have the ability to get educated or get lost. If they are so scared why didn't they run away screaming? Reason:they weren't scared they just don't approve of guns and want to push their beliefs on other people.

^ This!

 

[Flyguy]

Maybe this whole thing could have been avoided if the OP would have refused to talk at all.

"Am I being detained?" Let the officer take it from there and let him hang himself.

 

[DragonGunner]

Maybe this whole thing could have been avoided if the OP would have refused to talk at all.

"Am I being detained?" Let the officer take it from there and let him hang himself.

A good point to ponder.....I wonder if I was in that situation an realized how uneducated this reserve leo was, I might ask the leo if he could contact ISP to come out on my behalf. Can't one ask a officer to call his superior if you feel your being harrassed or intimidated??? Or if there is a question concerning a law???

 

[Rookie]

Beacon won't work on my phone, does anyone know who owns Howard county fair?

 

[buford t justice]

A lawyer friend of mine felt he was being wrongly harassed by Barney fife type leo, so he called the ISP and when they showed up Barney had to leave with some egg on his face.

 

[firemedic140]

I do agree with what Lucas said. I think there probably was some I don't like guns and some un-educated folks there. I've had a chance to calm down a bit. I wasn't debating OC vs. CC. Just there are other ways to handle things besides the way it was handled. By rights I mean we deserve to feel safe.

If they don't have the right to feel safe do we have the right to make them feel unsafe? Granted there unsafe in this case is very well paranoia.

 

[iChokePeople]

I have to agree with the notion that we would all be better served by avoiding smart ass answers in situations like this. As I said before, this LEO probably would have flipped my switch by going to the "stupidity" thing, and it would have gone to he'll from there, but I still think polite education would serve us all better in the long run and avoid escalating the situation. Still handled it better than I probably would have, so I'll stick to cc until I can control "bad chris".

And I'd be very interested to have seen what the "am I being detained?" tactic would have produced.

 

[jeremy]

Beacon won't work on my phone, does anyone know who owns Howard county fair?

I think the Greentown Lions Club actually owns the Ground...

 

[Hotdoger]

Beacon won't work on my phone, does anyone know who owns Howard county fair?

The Lions.

If you go , PM me rookie.

 

[Cwood]

Marshall Co. does not have property tax/owner records online. The other fairgrounds I have researched have ALL been owned by the county government. As such, the COUNTY cannot have any law/rule/policy on this. However, I have not been able to determine if the 4H program or Purdue Extension has leased the property from the county. If so, THEY may have a rule on this.

If the Purdue Extension has a lease and a rule, then this becomes a simple trespass issue. If they do NOT have a lease or a rule, then your "officer" has a real problem, and may have just stepped into a bug pile of 35-47-11.1-5.

That's on top of the fact that he obviously does not understand Indiana firearm laws.

Keep us updated!

Marshall county does have the information on the interwebz

Beacon - Marshall County, IN

The grounds are owned by the Marshall County 4H Association Inc

 

[Bill B]

So what did you learn about the LAKE COUNTY Fair ground then?

As I posted in the correct thread, it is owned by the county, the fair is put on by the Lake County Agricultural society, a private (as far as I can tell) group.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...aws_and_county_fairgrounds-4.html#post2019519

 

[Bill of Rights]

...
Am I missing something here? Where was the threat of incarceration leveled against the OP for not leaving? The OP admits he told the LEO that if the LEO just asked him to leave, he would leave. The LEO did just that, so the OP left. According to the OP's transcript, he was the first one to bring up leaving, and the way he brought it up wasn't very good...making an offer to leave on his own accord....

I don't recall seeing that there has to be a threat of incarceration for 292 to kick in...

Sec. 1. This chapter applies to a political subdivision (as defined in IC 3-5-2-38).
Sec. 2. Except as provided in section 4 of this chapter, a political subdivision may not regulate:
(1) firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories;
(2) the ownership, possession, carrying, transportation, registration, transfer, and storage of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories; and
(3) commerce in and taxation of firearms, firearm ammunition, and firearm accessories.
Sec. 3. Any provision of an ordinance, measure, enactment, rule, or policy or exercise of proprietary authority of a political subdivision or of an employee or agent of a political subdivision acting in an official capacity:
(1) enacted or undertaken before, on, or after June 30, 2011; and
(2) that pertains to or affects the matters listed in section 2 of this chapter;
is void.

...

Sec. 5. A person adversely affected by an ordinance, a measure,

an enactment, a rule, or a policy adopted or enforced by a political subdivision that violates this chapter may file an action in a court with competent jurisdiction against the political subdivision for:
(1) declarative and injunctive relief; and
(2) actual and consequential damages attributable to the violation.
Sec. 6. A person is "adversely affected" for purposes of section 5 of this chapter if either of the following applies:
(1) The person is an individual who meets all of the following requirements:
(A) The individual lawfully resides within the United States.
(B) The individual may legally possess a firearm under the laws of Indiana.
(C) The individual is or was subject to the ordinance, measure, enactment, rule, or policy of the political subdivision that is the subject of an action filed under section 5 of this chapter. An individual is or was subject to the ordinance, measure, enactment, rule, or policy of the political subdivision if the individual is or was physically present within the boundaries of the political subdivision for any reason.
(2) The person is a membership organization that:
(A) includes two (2) or more individuals described in subdivision (1); and
(B) is dedicated in whole or in part to protecting the rights of persons who possess, own, or use firearms for competitive, sporting, defensive, or other lawful purposes.
Sec. 7. A prevailing plaintiff in an action under section 5 of this chapter is entitled to recover from the political subdivision the following:
(1) The greater of the following:
(A) Actual damages, including consequential damages.
(B) Liquidated damages of three (3) times the plaintiff's attorney's fees.
(2) Court costs (including fees).
(3) Reasonable attorney's fees.

As I read it, political subdivisions and their agents are forbidden from having any rule, policy, law, etc. addressing anything about guns, ammo, or accessories whatsoever, other than discharge of a firearm. Further, if the policy, rule, whatever exists and the person is in any way subject to it, even if it is not being enforced, he is still considered adversely affected and this would, by the letter of the law, compel a decision in his favor, not that of the subdivision.

If I'm reading it incorrectly, I would be pleased to be corrected by someone who can show me why my read of it is incorrect.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Lucas156]

I do agree with what Lucas said. I think there probably was some I don't like guns and some un-educated folks there. I've had a chance to calm down a bit. I wasn't debating OC vs. CC. Just there are other ways to handle things besides the way it was handled. By rights I mean we deserve to feel safe.

If they don't have the right to feel safe do we have the right to make them feel unsafe? Granted there unsafe in this case is very well paranoia.

I think were all calm and no hard feelings just a civil discussion but I have to disagree with you on the safety thing. No one has the right to feel safe. People may have the right for a place or area to be a low risk environment but that doesn't eliminate all the risk or make them feel safe. Also you could argue someone only has the right to "feel safe" unless it infringes on someone elses rights.

How did he stand up for himself? He left...

He told the officer that he was well within his rights to OC and the officer couldn't do anything about it but ask him to leave.

 

[ATM]

I can't think of any feelings that I would consider rights.

 

[Steeler]

A BIG +1 to the OP!! Thank you sir for edumacating another ignorant tool.

 

[cowgirl.sdm]

That Elkhart "No weapons of any kind" policy is a bit tricky, and if you've ever been assaulted with a deep-fried twinkie, you know exactly what I mean...

I could just see some old lady chasing a young boy through the fair croud with the deep fried twinkie.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I could just see some old lady chasing a young boy through the fair croud with the deep fried twinkie.

...mind you, mØØse bites can be nasti...