OC at 4-H Fair. -1 Marshall County Reserve Officer

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  • Hoosierdood

    Grandmaster
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    8   0   0
    Nov 2, 2010
    5,469
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    North of you
    I just want to interject a few thoughts here. Thank you for all the support showed in this thread. I also want to thank those who offered constructive criticism. Even though I may have got my feelings hurt from a couple posts, I got over it after a few seconds. :D

    First to those who have commented about my smart remarks to the officer. I make every attempt to treat everyone I see with dignity and respect. I am actually a pretty friendly person by nature, although I can get a bit sarcastic at times (it's just my warped sense of humor). When the officer asked me to step to the side and asked me if I was with an agency, I responded with a respectful answer. I even showed him my ID, even though I technically did not HAVE to. However, it was his next comment that invoked my smart-alec tone. It is hard to convey tone of voice over the interwebz, but the tone of voice when he asked me "what are you doing carrying a gun" was one that conveyed the message "YOU ARE NOT A COP SO YOU SHOULDN'T BE CARRYING A GUN IN THE OPEN" It was at this point that I understood the true nature of our interaction. So yes, I did get smart with him. You see, I have a problem with Bullies. Always have. I have a habit of getting a little bit smart when someone tries to push me around. Unfortunately, my smart mouth have caused me trouble in the past because contrary to popular belief, many bullies CAN back up their words with action. :n00b:

    Second, to those who stated that I shouldn't have talked at all. My dad always had a saying when I was growing up. He said "Hindsight is always 20/20". (I don't know why he was always saying that to me) Maybe if I was in the situation again, I might have handled it differently. My question to you would be this... When is the last time you were in a similar situation where you chose to be silent? I admit I have even been in the crowd who preached the fact that you should be silent. It's easy to say that while sitting at a computer in a comfy chair, it's another thing to do it in an actual confrontation. I still think I handled it fairly well, although there is always room for improvement.

    Third, about "begging him to ask me to leave." This stemmed from his assertion that the fairgrounds were private property. If any property owner does not desire firearms on their premises, then they can ask that person to leave. The problem is whether or not the fair is actually private property. If it is, well we were about done there anyway. If it isn't, then he is in direct violation of IC 35-47-11.1. So I challenged him on how far he was actually going to take his ego trip. He asked me to leave and I complied.

    The crux of the problem is how he confronted me. Had he treated me with respect, I would have responded likewise. However, he tried to be a big man looking to make a point and he was called out by a kid half his age. He didn't like that and he was going to make a point. I refuse to bow to anyone who tries to assert their superiority.
     
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    May 14, 2011
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    colorado
    you did as well or better than most of us, the officer had several minutes to decide how he was going to approach you about the situation.

    you had a few seconds to come up with answers.
     

    SirRealism

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Nov 17, 2008
    1,779
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    The crux of the problem is how he confronted me. Had he treated me with respect, I would have responded likewise. However, he tried to be a big man looking to make a point and he was called out by a kid half his age. He didn't like that and he was going to make a point. I refuse to bow to anyone who tries to assert their superiority.

    Yep, it's easy to say and do the right things from behind a computer. But when a jack wagon confronts me without provocation, it's hard not to let the sarcasm fly.

    I still say you did well.
     

    indyjohn

    PATRIOT
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    78   0   0
    Dec 26, 2010
    7,616
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    In the trees
    I refuse to bow to anyone who tries to assert their superiority.

    I get your point.

    I don't know why exactly, but while reading the exchange between you & the LEO, I thought of this favorite movie quote:

    "A hospital? What is it?"
    "It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now."

    I think the LEO expected you to cave and run.
     

    KG1

    Forgotten Man
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    66   0   0
    Jan 20, 2009
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    I guess the easy way out would have been to just stay silent and let this poor uneducated excuse for LE (even as a reservist) have their way but some of us see it differently.
     

    J_Wales

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 18, 2011
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    I don't want to be the guy to say that you shouldn't exercise your rights. You were and are well within your rights here. And +1 for you not being a jack wagon when the LEO came up to you. HOWEVER, If you would have just kept that pistol tucked away you still could have defended yourself from the zombies, terrorists, muggers, and life-stock all while attracting no attention from the ignorant. Remember people OC makes your children cry.


    No.

    Statist pigs make your children cry.
     

    J_Wales

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 18, 2011
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    I just want to interject a few thoughts here. Thank you for all the support showed in this thread. I also want to thank those who offered constructive criticism. Even though I may have got my feelings hurt from a couple posts, I got over it after a few seconds. :D

    First to those who have commented about my smart remarks to the officer. I make every attempt to treat everyone I see with dignity and respect. I am actually a pretty friendly person by nature, although I can get a bit sarcastic at times (it's just my warped sense of humor). When the officer asked me to step to the side and asked me if I was with an agency, I responded with a respectful answer. I even showed him my ID, even though I technically did not HAVE to. However, it was his next comment that invoked my smart-alec tone. It is hard to convey tone of voice over the interwebz, but the tone of voice when he asked me "what are you doing carrying a gun" was one that conveyed the message "YOU ARE NOT A COP SO YOU SHOULDN'T BE CARRYING A GUN IN THE OPEN" It was at this point that I understood the true nature of our interaction. So yes, I did get smart with him. You see, I have a problem with Bullies. Always have. I have a habit of getting a little bit smart when someone tries to push me around. Unfortunately, my smart mouth have caused me trouble in the past because contrary to popular belief, many bullies CAN back up their words with action. :n00b:

    Second, to those who stated that I shouldn't have talked at all. My dad always had a saying when I was growing up. He said "Hindsight is always 20/20". (I don't know why he was always saying that to me) Maybe if I was in the situation again, I might have handled it differently. My question to you would be this... When is the last time you were in a similar situation where you chose to be silent? I admit I have even been in the crowd who preached the fact that you should be silent. It's easy to say that while sitting at a computer in a comfy chair, it's another thing to do it in an actual confrontation. I still think I handled it fairly well, although there is always room for improvement.

    Third, about "begging him to ask me to leave." This stemmed from his assertion that the fairgrounds were private property. If any property owner does not desire firearms on their premises, then they can ask that person to leave. The problem is whether or not the fair is actually private property. If it is, well we were about done there anyway. If it isn't, then he is in direct violation of IC 35-47-11.1. So I challenged him on how far he was actually going to take his ego trip. He asked me to leave and I complied.

    The crux of the problem is how he confronted me. Had he treated me with respect, I would have responded likewise. However, he tried to be a big man looking to make a point and he was called out by a kid half his age. He didn't like that and he was going to make a point. I refuse to bow to anyone who tries to assert their superiority.


    I would say you handled the entire situation exactly right.

    Well done.
     

    NoLeftTurn

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 19, 2011
    3
    1
    Son, if some of the comments bother you just take HALF a baby aspirin. It's always worked for me. HIND SIGHT IS ALWAYS 20/20, but you did good!
     

    BlueEagle

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Feb 3, 2011
    2,046
    36
    Southern Indiana
    I've had that one happen....plus all the grandparents, aunts, and uncles have bumped it. I try to do side-ways hugs now, to avoid that particular incident....

    Anyway, I think the OP handled the situation admirably, and would like to congratulate him on such handling. I will buy him a beer, if I ever get the opportunity, for his hard work on educating the LEO's of our state. Its the reason I OC, as well; I'm just HOPING that I get to educate someone about the laws that they live under. Whether by talking with them directly, or if I just make them curious enough to turn to Google for answers.
     

    Wwwildthing

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 25, 2010
    524
    16
    Arizona
    Why shouldn't this reserve officer be held personally accountable for his actions? If I'm at work and mouth off to a customer and do so with bad information, you can bet for sure that I'll be held accountable and probably fired for it. Why should this officer get a pass? IT'S HIS JOB TO KNOW THE LAW.

    Granted, there's a LOT of law to know, and there's no way to be an expert in all aspects of it, but that doesn't excuse him being unprofessional. Had he not been a jerk about it, likely this would not even have been a thread on INGO.

    I agree.

    Anytime a officer... any officer... steps up to enforce a law, he needs to be an expert on that law... otherwise, he's enforcing opinion.

    There is no excuse for this officer's conduct.
     
    Last edited:

    Wwwildthing

    Sharpshooter
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    0   0   0
    Aug 25, 2010
    524
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    Arizona
    He asked you if you were with an agency. If you had been, would all the frightened masses who saw you and called it in now suddenly be calmed because the cop found out you were with an agency? That question, implying that if you were an LEO you could still OC and frighten everyone gives the lie to his supposed reason for questioning you in the first place.

    Which raises a question... what if the OP had been wearing a badge, one of those CWP badges that everyone makes a issue of... short of actually checking the badge, everyone will (most likely) assume he is a cop, at which the gun becomes a non-issue.

    I've seen two LEO's in the last week who were carrying off-duty. From the way they were dressed, I initially assumed they were open carriers with a CWP badge... it wasn't until I was much closer, that I recognized them as local LEO's (who were badly dressed).
     

    Lead Head

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 25, 2011
    427
    16
    Northeast Indiana
    Not so long ago I would have said you were asking for it. I even had a tiff with another INGO member over OC issues and he gave me a negative rep for sharing my opinion. This was after he asked for replies in a public forum. Whatever....water under the bridge.

    I guess you guys are wearing me down because I'm starting to think the ONLY way to ever get the point across is to OC where legal.

    Keeping your cool when approached by a LEO, dick or professional is paramount to building a level of respect for OC. At this point I would say expect to be approached and if needed, practice your response just like target practice. Inform the adults you are with that something like this may occur, etc.

    For operational activities (whatever they may be) concealed is still the best approach in my opinion.

    Someone mentioned LEO's being elitist and that only they should be allowed to carry guns. Sadly, this is probably the case more than it's not. A reserve officer would obviously have some limitations on experience but I would think that part of any LEO training would include gun laws of all things. Maybe they skip that chapter now days.

    A new trend like OC in Indiana will take some time to settle in as an every day occurrence. Until then, expect to be hassled. It's not for everyone. Not yet anyway.

    Maybe partial OC is the way to go for some. I've seen it many times but I'm also looking for it. You know. The untucked shirt with the holster tip exposed. It's intentional and they are not cops. It's a place to start.
     

    mrortega

    Master
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    14   0   0
    Jul 9, 2008
    3,693
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    Just west of Evansville
    There should be no pat-down worry from the priest since underage boys aren't allowed to carry. :scared:
    Okay. Comments about priests being pedophiles as a whole are as offensive as making a comment that black guys all shuffle along, eat water mellon and lust after white women. Or everybody from Alabama wears white sheets and burns crosses.
     

    serpicostraight

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    I'm sure a lot of you will be pissed but here it goes. I understand the whole open carry vs. concealed. I choose cc. If your "harassed" for lack of a better word right now. Cover the damn thing up and go about your business. Answering questions with questions, smart assed answers are only going to escalate the situation. People have a right to be scared. I'm not saying anyone should have been asked to leave. Maybe that option wouldn't have come to the officers mind had it not so poignantly been made an option! Some times it's easier to go with the flow and cover than make a point and upset people around you including your family.
    maybe all those guys in 1775 should have just went with the flow huh? if you dont defend your rights they will be taken from you. its people like this deputy that need to be reminded we the people run this country not the cops or politicians.
     

    thompal

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    Sep 27, 2008
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    Beech Grove
    I'm sure a lot of you will be pissed but here it goes. I understand the whole open carry vs. concealed. I choose cc. If your "harassed" for lack of a better word right now. Cover the damn thing up and go about your business. Answering questions with questions, smart assed answers are only going to escalate the situation. People have a right to be scared. I'm not saying anyone should have been asked to leave. Maybe that option wouldn't have come to the officers mind had it not so poignantly been made an option! Some times it's easier to go with the flow and cover than make a point and upset people around you including your family.

    "Covering it up" is an option, but not really a very good one. Here's why I say that, if we assume, and are going to accept, being hassled by the police for carrying, then CCing is the only option we leave ourselves. BUT, what happens when we stretch to get something on a shelf in a store, or squat down to attend to our young kids, or the wind blows our jacket open? Unless you are carrying a pocket pistol, there are many times that someone can tell that we are carrying. Even a pocket pistol is detectable at times. Are we going to accept as 'normal' that we will/should get hassled anytime anyone can tell that we have a handgun?

    People may have a "right" to be scared, but I would have to say to them "get over it." What if people were scared of blacks? Would we tell black people that they really should just wear whiteface makeup or stay at home?
     

    thompal

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    Yeah maybe OP shouldn't have said do you want me to leave so early but you mean to say that if the LEO asked you to leave you wouldn't?

    I kind of took it as the OP was educating the cop on his only legal course of action, and only then if the property owner instructed him to do so. The cop was making noises about confiscating things, and maybe arresting him. The cop obviously clueless about the law, so the OP was essentially telling him "here's your options."
     

    thompal

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    Sep 27, 2008
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    If they don't have the right to feel safe do we have the right to make them feel unsafe? Granted there unsafe in this case is very well paranoia.

    It's kind of like the old Fidonet Policy 4.
    a) Do not annoy others.
    b) Do not be too easily annoyed.

    If you go out of your way to scare others, then you are in the wrong.

    If someone is scared of you simply because a legal activity in which you are engaging bothers them, then they are in the wrong.

    I am not going to intentionally scare anyone or do anyone harm.

    I am also not going to live my life in such a way as to conform to EVERYONE else's idea of comfort. Not only would that totally negate MY rights to live as I please, it would also be an impossible goal to please everyone at all times.
     

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