My experience on the side of the road with a state trooper

[Roadie]

Your right, remaining silent is not a crime. But I would be willing to bet that it's enough to get your ass yanked out of the car and arrested ,maybe even roughed up a bit, for not cooperating and in the cops opinion, being a dick!

Sorry, but you obviously have little knowledge the law. COULD a LEO arrest someone for our scenario? Sure. Would it be legal? Not even a little.

Merely possessing a gun is not in itself reasonable suspicion, and once LTCH is verified, Indiana Supreme court decisions have determined that the inquiry regarding the gun ends THERE.

You have rights, don't **** them away so easily.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Hmm...

I hope you're not advocating that those actions would be a reasonable response by the cop to someone just exercising their Constututional right. I didn't think so...

As for being arrested, for what? Could you please point to the law that says it's illegal to be a dick?

That's a pretty scary thing that the first thing many people think of is that the cops will rough someone up a bit for being merely uncooperative (better known to most of us as "the right to remain silent"). That says a huge amount about LEO-non-LEO relations.[/QUOTE
No I'm not advocating anything. Since when are all responses by cops (or anyone else) always reasonable? Your correct, it not illegal to be a dick, but surely, you're not so naive as to believe that they can't think of a reason to arrest you! Believe me, they can and will! It's not scary to think that something like that could happen, what's scary is that some people think that it couldn't happen! You are again correct that it does say a lot about Leo non-Leo relations. It would be nice to know that all cops would always act in a professional, respectful, courteous manner, but, come on, don't live in a dream world! We have good and bad cops ( also good and bad every other profession).

I could be wrong but there is no law saying I must


cooperate with a cop so long as I do not obstruct. Me keeping my mouth shut is not being obstructive. **** on em if they do not like me being quiet. I am not going to help someone do their job if I am not getting paid to do so.

 

[Dirtebiker]

It's not enough. Those actions would only make one of us a criminal.

The other would hopefully at least get some cash out of the deal.

You'r right, it would make the cop a criminal! Do you not think that if you get the wrong cop, who's had a bad day (or life), that pissing him off, could possibly result in less than a desirable outcome?

 

[ATM]

You'r right, it would make the cop a criminal! Do you not think that if you get the wrong cop, who's had a bad day (or life), that pissing him off, could possibly result in less than a desirable outcome?

I am willing to endure a less than desirable outcome if that's what it takes to maintain [STRIKE]my[/STRIKE] our rights.

If he's the wrong cop, having a bad day (or life), and gets pissed...

how would that be my fault?

 

[Dirtebiker]

You forgot the cop, department, township, and city being sued for a large sum of money as a result of those actions.

Go ahead. Step over the line. Rough me up. See what happens later. I always wanted a 12-bedroom house in the country, a Ferrari and my own private shooting range.

No, I didn't forget any of those. I was just pointing out what could happen if you refuse to answer questions by a cop who may already have a chip on his shoulder. Side note...if you did get roughed up, and even if you could win a lawsuit (good luck with that), I really doubt you would end up with enough money to buy a nice dinner, let alone any of the ridiculous things you've dreamed up!

 

[Dirtebiker]

I could be wrong but there is no law saying I must cooperate with a cop so long as I do not obstruct. Me keeping my mouth shut is not being obstructive. **** on em if they do not like me being quiet. I am not going to help someone do their job if I am not getting paid to do so.

Believe me, I agree completely, I was just stating what could happen!

 

[Dirtebiker]

Sorry, but you obviously have little knowledge the law. COULD a LEO arrest someone for our scenario? Sure. Would it be legal? Not even a little.

Merely possessing a gun is not in itself reasonable suspicion, and once LTCH is verified, Indiana Supreme court decisions have determined that the inquiry regarding the gun ends THERE.

You have rights, don't **** them away so easily.

Sorry yourself, I know plenty about the law! Read what I said.
You insult me for being ignorant of the law, then agree with exactly what I said! Nowhere in my reply did I say that it would be legal! Of course it wouldn't!
The guy I was responding to said he would remain silent when asked if he had a gun, I just mention a possible senario!(sp.)
I sure didn't mean to tick anyone off and I certainly didn't intend on answering so many attacks on myself, I was making a simple comment and people read a lot more into it than was intended!
Believe me, I respect your and my rights, and would not dare "**** them away"

 

[Dirtebiker]

I am willing to endure a less than desirable outcome if that's what it takes to maintain [STRIKE]my[/STRIKE] our rights.

If he's the wrong cop, having a bad day (or life), and gets pissed...

how would that be my fault?

Again people, simply READ WHAT I WROTE!

I didn't say anything about it being your fault!

I am as adamant about our right as any of you!

 

[chasekerion4]

Wow -

Lots to sift through since last night when I posted my story.

Let me start first by addressing those who think I should carry a FL permit. In short, NO. Might as well throw money in the toilet. FL honors IN, and vice versa, as do all points between. If I am legal in Indiana with it and Florida DL (which I clearly am since they issued it), that's end of story. Nope. Really. That IS end of story. If you want to throw YOUR money around, PM me and I'll send you my address.

Secondly, I have had several encounters with state troopers here, and with the exact same scenario. I offered the info. Nothing good will come from a cop asking and you not telling, only for him to find out you do, in fact, have a gun. Take the moral highground of "I don't have to, why should I" all you want. In my past experiences, every officer has appreciated my honesty and have not received a ticket in 10 years. Is this because I offered up the info from the start? Maybe. I don't know. But it certainly isn't going to hurt my chances of leaving the shoulder of the highway with the same amount of cash to my name.

Think about it for a second. I've had several encounters, and this is the FIRST time I've had this issue with my LTCH. Imagine several encounters where you DON'T inform, and the officer finds out. Betcha every one of those encounters is gonna ruin your day.

The jist is you can buck the system all you want, but rest assured you're not in control. Enough cops get "surprised" on the side of the road, and it WILL become a law for you to inform.

What I ended up finding out is I got the wrong cop at the wrong time. This officer's sole job is getting drugs off the highway, according to his superiors, so I was fighting an uphill battle from the start, having Florida tags and all. The way he was looking inside my car from the start, I had no reason to think this was gonna go "smooth"

To those who've asked, I'm honestly not sure how I'll approach it next time I get pulled over. I'd like to think I'll inform again, based on my belief that only bad things can happen should they find out on their own.

In the end (and I'm sure this is gonna start one helluva sh*tstorm), we all have LTCH to protect ourselves and families. That's it. We don't have them because we found an extra $130 bucks in our pocket and wanted to spend it on something... and decided upon IN LTCH's

Moral stance or not, that's the bottom freaking line. In the end, I have the same amount of cash after the stop as I did before the stop. I still have a valid IN LTCH. I still have a legal FL driver's license and FL registration. I went about my day, and went home to my wife. Do I think I was treated unfairly? Absolutely. Does it make a difference what I think? Absolutely not. I was treated unfairly today when I saw how much taxes were taken out of my paycheck.

Now, tell me about YOUR day when you're asked about your weapon and you say "no" and Johnny finds out. Bet your day ends up worse than mine.

 

[ATM]

Again people, simply READ WHAT I WROTE!

I didn't say anything about it being your fault!

I am as adamant about our right as any of you!

I read what you wrote. Here it is again. I'll highlight it for you.

You'r right, it would make the cop a criminal! Do you not think that if you get the wrong cop, who's had a bad day (or life), that pissing him off, could possibly result in less than a desirable outcome?

You see, my point is that I wouldn't be pissing him off. (Your sentence structure denotes that something I do would be responsible for his pissy state.)

If the only way to keep him from getting pissed would be to waive a right, it's that right, not me, that he's pissed about.

Savvy?

 

[IndyGunner]

ugh corrupt cops

 

[patton487]

Now, tell me about YOUR day when you're asked about your weapon and you say "no" and Johnny finds out. Bet your day ends up worse than mine.

Your changing your story.....
"The state trooper comes up to the passenger side, looks inside my windows (more than just a peek), and asks for my license and registration. While getting my license out, I inform him that I have a gun under my seat"

The LEO never asked. If asked I will of course tell the truth. Your own post never said anything about being asked if you had a gun. You changed your story, which one is it??

 

[jbombelli]

No, I didn't forget any of those. I was just pointing out what could happen if you refuse to answer questions by a cop who may already have a chip on his shoulder. Side note...if you did get roughed up, and even if you could win a lawsuit (good luck with that), I really doubt you would end up with enough money to buy a nice dinner, let alone any of the ridiculous things you've dreamed up!

Try again. I record all of my interactions with police.

If a police officer beats someone up (or, "roughs them up") for refusing to answer questions, the lawsuits and settlements can easily reach millions of dollars. And if that happened to me, I flat guarantee I would win. I record all of my interactions with the police, just in case I get some a-hole that would do something like that.

You can doubt all you want. You're just wrong.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I'd like to think I'll inform again, based on my belief that only bad things can happen should they find out on their own.

Ummm, didn't you just go on an Internet forum and complain about how the police handled things once you volunteered that you had a gun?

Don't go volunteering info to the police about how you have a gun and you won't have this kind of police behavior.

"Wow, sticking knitting needles in my eyes really hurts."

"So, don't stick needles in your eyes."

"I like to think that next time I will stick knitting needles in my eyes."

Nothing good will come from a cop asking and you not telling, only for him to find out you do, in fact, have a gun.

No one is advocating telling the officer a lie. What we are telling you is DO NOT volunteer the fact that you are carrying to any officer during a traffic stop.

Running one's yap invites:

1. overreaction by the officer;
2. unsafe and reckless gun handling by the officer;
3. Internet forum postings whining about police harrassment over a civil right.

 

[chasekerion4]

Your changing your story.....
"The state trooper comes up to the passenger side, looks inside my windows (more than just a peek), and asks for my license and registration. While getting my license out, I inform him that I have a gun under my seat"

The LEO never asked. If asked I will of course tell the truth. Your own post never said anything about being asked if you had a gun. You changed your story, which one is it??

The story is as I told it. What you picked out of it was a hypothetical. Maybe you couldn't tell?

 

[chasekerion4]

Kirk, I did not go on an internet forum to complain about the police. I came to tell my story and certainly am complaining about ONE cop. But if you've read my posts you'll notice I've mentioned several encounters with state police. This is the ONLY negative expeience. In my personal experience it has generally served me well by volunteering the info vs the alternative scenarios that could have happened.

It could also be said that NOT running your yap and the officer finds out you could be looking at overreaction as well as well as reckless handling of a gun by him getting antsy thinking you're hiding something.

Im not arguing your opinion of whether or not to inform. Personally I don't care if you do or don't. Its generally worked out for me in the past. My complaint is that he took a verifiable legal person through the ringer over his apparent belief that the citizens should not be armed.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

This is the ONLY negative expeience

Problem is that it only takes one.

I could really care less what the officer thinks about my right to arms, I object to all the roadside fiddling with the guns.

It could also be said that NOT running your yap and the officer finds out you could be looking at overreaction as well as well as reckless handling of a gun by him getting antsy thinking you're hiding something.

Maybe, but he's got to find it first. If I don't tell him and he does not find it, no legal problem. If I don't tell him and he finds it, no legal problem.

I've had one of my own pistols pointed at me. After you have a pistol pointed at you by a cop affecting an ape from 2001, you won't volunteer jack squat.

It really doesn't matter why you get shot, the bullet does not care if it comes from a bad or good guy or if I am a good or bad guy. If the cop shoots me with my own gun because he is untrained, then I am still shot.

If the officer does not see it, I'm not going to give another officer the opportunity to shoot me so I am not saying anything about me having guns in the car. If he asks, I'll tell him, but you have to ask.

Now, the last time I was pulled over by ISP (speeding on I-65), the kid told me to slow down (he even said "please") and took no notice of the pistol on my belt or the suppressed .22 in the glove box (he came up on the passenger side).

OTOH, ISP did want to see my pink card when I hit my deer but I was open carrying and the young trooper was shocked to see someone open carrying. "I've never seen that before!"

Thanks for posting your experience. Hopefully it will help your fellow INGOers and that is why we are here.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Try again. I record all of my interactions with police.

If a police officer beats someone up (or, "roughs them up") for refusing to answer questions, the lawsuits and settlements can easily reach millions of dollars. And if that happened to me, I flat guarantee I would win. I record all of my interactions with the police, just in case I get some a-hole that would do something like that.

You can doubt all you want. You're just wrong.

If you do have a recording, then great, you may have a good chance of winning. I was referring to the average person getting asked about weapons, refusing to answer, being un-lucky enough to get "that" cop, not having a recording,your word against his (and all his back-up buddies). In that case, fat chance of winning a penny! And in the case of a win, your lawyer getting a large chunk of the settlement , leaving you with, most likely, much less than what's needed for the Ferrarri, or whatever you referred to in the original reply.
Believe me I am on your side, I hope that anyone that is ever abused by a Leo, has a recording, and can win a lawsuit! I wish I had one when I was arrested for honking my horn at a cop for not using his turn signal and running an old couple (and almost me) off the road. I spent the night in lock-up for illegal use of horn and resisting arrest, so hopefully you can see where I'm coming from!

 

[snowman46919]

If you do have a recording, then great, you may have a good chance of winning. I was referring to the average person getting asked about weapons, refusing to answer, being un-lucky enough to get "that" cop, not having a recording,your word against his (and all his back-up buddies). In that case, fat chance of winning a penny! And in the case of a win, your lawyer getting a large chunk of the settlement , leaving you with, most likely, much less than what's needed for the Ferrarri, or whatever you referred to in the original reply.
Believe me I am on your side, I hope that anyone that is ever abused by a Leo, has a recording, and can win a lawsuit! I wish I had one when I was arrested for honking my horn at a cop for not using his turn signal and running an old couple (and almost me) off the road. I spent the night in lock-up for illegal use of horn and resisting arrest, so hopefully you can see where I'm coming from!

look at the bolded section.. no one said refuse to answer. The question is posed as do you have any illegal drugs or weapons in the car. The honest answer of a license holder is no I do not have any illegal drugs or weapons in the vehicle. Unless of course you do have drugs and stolen guns/Full auto without stamp etc. in the car

 

[Johnson]

I read what you wrote. Here it is again. I'll highlight it for you.



You see, my point is that I wouldn't be pissing him off. (Your sentence structure denotes that something I do would be responsible for his pissy state.)

If the only way to keep him from getting pissed would be to waive a right, it's that right, not me, that he's pissed about.

Savvy?

Well said ATM. From the inception of this country, people have fought and died for the rights that so many are willing to hand away so they don't have a bad day or so they aren't inconvenienced. Stand up for your rights! Not to get a reaction (ideally there shouldn't be a negative one), but in spite of the negative reaction and outcome if necessary.

Rep for ATM.