My experience on the side of the road with a state trooper

[MinuteMan47]

No. I have yet to pat down a rider though. So unless he decides he's going to continue telling the cops everything about his weapon status, he should be ok

What if he decides to open carry that day...?

 

[Pocketman]

Disclose you're carrying, or not disclose? Open carry, or concealed? As soon as someone comes up with a solid answer to these related questions, what will we discuss on this board?

 

[Love the 1911]

What if he decides to open carry that day...?

Wait a minute!!! You guys are trying to get me to say that I would violate department policy so you can lump me in with the bad police. I try so hard to be good and this is what I get?

 

[bassplayrguy]

That is funny ****. I would like a ride along. What steps do I need to take?

 

[MinuteMan47]

That is funny ****. I would like a ride along. What steps do I need to take?

1. Strip search
2. Drug test
3. Polygraph
4. You must be able to pay for donuts.

 

[MinuteMan47]

Wait a minute!!! You guys are trying to get me to say that I would violate department policy so you can lump me in with the bad police. I try so hard to be good and this is what I get?

 

[VERT]

OP - You stated that you lived in FL for 6 months of the year and IN for 6 months. You also own property and a business in IN. So, my understanding is that you are completely justified in having an IN LTCH. My question is, so you also have a FL CCW/permit/license? If I were you I would have both. Then there should never be any question as to what is going on.

 

[youngda9]

Would this be considered being illegally detained?

I wonder if you'd said "am I being detained" and "am I free to go" if it would have changed anything...either he would have got going writing a ticket, or any further waste of your time locked in the back of his car would be "detainment"?

I'm clearly not a lawyer...but I did sleep on the couch last night.

 

[snowman46919]

OP - You stated that you lived in FL for 6 months of the year and IN for 6 months. You also own property and a business in IN. So, my understanding is that you are completely justified in having an IN LTCH. My question is, so you also have a FL CCW/permit/license? If I were you I would have both. Then there should never be any question as to what is going on.

If he is careful about how he drives to and from Florida it is not necessary to hold the Florida. Also if I am not mistaken you can not obtain a lifetime in Florida.

 

[T-Mann]

If he is careful about how he drives to and from Florida it is not necessary to hold the Florida. Also if I am not mistaken you can not obtain a lifetime in Florida.

Well, if the OP would get an Indiana OLN and claim himself to be an Indiana Resident (instead of having a FL OLN which, I THINK, makes him a FL resident) then Florida and all points in-between would honor the IN permit.

Or, Option 2, since he carries a FL OLN he can just get a FL permit and Indiana and all points in-between would honor the permit.

Since FL does not have State Income Tax (which is why, I presume, OP is technically a resident of FL) then it looks like option 2 is the better option. Even if they don't have a Lifetime Permit, the savings in income tax will more than make up for the difference of having to pay $117 for the initial permit and then $65 every 7 years.

 

[justgettinby]

Chase

Let me apologize to you for the way you were treated. I am a LEO elsewhere in the state. I feel you were treated unfairly, he should have been disciplined for treating you that way. I have never treated a gun owner who is up-front about carrying that way I usually end up talking to them more about their choice of carry then worrying bout whatever infraction I pulled them over for.
I understand him pulling you out of the car to separate you from the firearm as he dealt with you. I agree that this kid sounds very over zealous. He is probably one of those troopers that never shot a gun until he went to the range at the academy. This really ticks me off. I appreciate when people tell me they have a permit or gun.
Now please understand that we try to be very cautious when doing a traffic stop because we have no idea who is in the car getting pulled over.
Again I'm sorry that you went through that.

 

[kadetklapp]

I would not advise an officer you are armed unless you have the pistol on you and you feel that you may have to get out of the car or move in such a way that the pistol could be seen.

That being said, I feel that this officer's reaction to your gun and permit was because of totally inadequate training of police officers on the CWP topic by the state police. The permits in Indiana, while handy, are very confusing for most police officers to understand. The permit itself is vague (for instance, the address change thing) and no one knows the end-all/be-all of where the permit is valid, what you can do to lose your permit, etc.

You have to understand that not all police officers are "gun people" and most do not have permits, as they are not required to have permits by law. While what happened to you sounds somewhat "typical" of an encounter with ISP, I think the officer was being prudent in making sure your permit was legit due to the address issues. FWIW, you should have changed your address sooner and you should have notified IGCN about the address permit change sooner. Thankfully they don't really care.

ETA
Back when I had a permit I changed addresses. I emailed the firearms division at ISP and the nice (and extremely overworked) ladies there emailed me back confirming the change. I printed that email out and clipped it to my permit and put it in my wallet should any issues arise.
Indiana's permits are outdated and vague. While I don't want them to really change, I do think that you should be reissued a different card when you move and I think reciprocal states should be printed on the darn thing.

 

[Fargo]

I would be very careful about getting the new address update done promptly. It is technically a criminal offense not to do so within 60 days:

IC 35-47-2-3
Application for license to carry handgun; procedure
Sec. 3. (a) A person desiring a license to carry a handgun shall apply:
(1) to the chief of police or corresponding law enforcement officer of the municipality in which the applicant resides;
(2) if that municipality has no such officer, or if the applicant does not reside in a municipality, to the sheriff of the county in which the applicant resides after the applicant has obtained an application form prescribed by the superintendent; or
(3) if the applicant is a resident of another state and has a regular place of business or employment in Indiana, to the sheriff of the county in which the applicant has a regular place of business or employment.
The superintendent and local law enforcement agencies shall allow an applicant desiring to obtain or renew a license to carry a handgun to submit an application electronically under this chapter if funds are available to establish and maintain an electronic application system.
(b) The law enforcement agency which accepts an application for a handgun license shall collect the following application fees:
(1) From a person applying for a four (4) year handgun license, a ten dollar ($10) application fee, five dollars ($5) of which shall be refunded if the license is not issued.
(2) From a person applying for a lifetime handgun license who does not currently possess a valid Indiana handgun license, a fifty dollar ($50) application fee, thirty dollars ($30) of which shall be refunded if the license is not issued.
(3) From a person applying for a lifetime handgun license who currently possesses a valid Indiana handgun license, a forty dollar ($40) application fee, thirty dollars ($30) of which shall be refunded if the license is not issued.
Except as provided in subsection (h), the fee shall be deposited into the law enforcement agency's firearms training fund or other appropriate training activities fund and used by the agency to train law enforcement officers in the proper use of firearms or in other law enforcement duties, or to purchase firearms, firearm related equipment, or body armor (as defined in IC 35-47-5-13(a)) for the law enforcement officers employed by the law enforcement agency. The state board of accounts shall establish rules for the proper accounting and expenditure of funds collected under this subsection.
(c) The officer to whom the application is made shall ascertain the applicant's name, full address, length of residence in the community, whether the applicant's residence is located within the limits of any city or town, the applicant's occupation, place of business or employment, criminal record, if any, and convictions (minor traffic offenses excepted), age, race, sex, nationality, date of birth, citizenship, height, weight, build, color of hair, color of eyes, scars and marks, whether the applicant has previously held an Indiana license to carry a handgun and, if so, the serial number of the license and year issued, whether the applicant's license has ever been suspended or revoked, and if so, the year and reason for the suspension or revocation, and the applicant's reason for desiring a license. The officer to whom the application is made shall conduct an investigation into the applicant's official records and verify thereby the applicant's character and reputation, and shall in addition verify for accuracy the information contained in the application, and shall forward this information together with the officer's recommendation for approval or disapproval and one (1) set of legible and classifiable fingerprints of the applicant to the superintendent.
(d) The superintendent may make whatever further investigation the superintendent deems necessary. Whenever disapproval is recommended, the officer to whom the application is made shall provide the superintendent and the applicant with the officer's complete and specific reasons, in writing, for the recommendation of disapproval.
(e) If it appears to the superintendent that the applicant:
(1) has a proper reason for carrying a handgun;
(2) is of good character and reputation;
(3) is a proper person to be licensed; and
(4) is:
(A) a citizen of the United States; or
(B) not a citizen of the United States but is allowed to carry a firearm in the United States under federal law;
the superintendent shall issue to the applicant a qualified or an unlimited license to carry any handgun lawfully possessed by the applicant. The original license shall be delivered to the licensee. A copy shall be delivered to the officer to whom the application for license was made. A copy shall be retained by the superintendent for at least four (4) years in the case of a four (4) year license. The superintendent may adopt guidelines to establish a records retention policy for a lifetime license. A four (4) year license shall be valid for a period of four (4) years from the date of issue. A lifetime license is valid for the life of the individual receiving the license. The license of police officers, sheriffs or their deputies, and law enforcement officers of the United States government who have been honorably retired by a lawfully created pension board or its equivalent after twenty (20) or more years of service, shall be valid for the life of these individuals. However, a lifetime license is automatically revoked if the license holder does not remain a proper person.
(f) At the time a license is issued and delivered to a licensee under subsection (e), the superintendent shall include with the license information concerning handgun safety rules that:
(1) neither opposes nor supports an individual's right to bear arms; and
(2) is:
(A) recommended by a nonprofit educational organization that is dedicated to providing education on safe handling and use of firearms;
(B) prepared by the state police department; and
(C) approved by the superintendent.
The superintendent may not deny a license under this section because the information required under this subsection is unavailable at the time the superintendent would otherwise issue a license. The state police department may accept private donations or grants to defray the cost of printing and mailing the information required under this subsection.
(g) A license to carry a handgun shall not be issued to any person who:
(1) has been convicted of a felony;
(2) has had a license to carry a handgun suspended, unless the person's license has been reinstated;
(3) is under eighteen (18) years of age;
(4) is under twenty-three (23) years of age if the person has been adjudicated a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult; or
(5) has been arrested for a Class A or Class B felony, or any other felony that was committed while armed with a deadly weapon or that involved the use of violence, if a court has found probable cause to believe that the person committed the offense charged.
In the case of an arrest under subdivision (5), a license to carry a handgun may be issued to a person who has been acquitted of the specific offense charged or if the charges for the specific offense are dismissed. The superintendent shall prescribe all forms to be used in connection with the administration of this chapter.
(h) If the law enforcement agency that charges a fee under subsection (b) is a city or town law enforcement agency, the fee shall be deposited in the law enforcement continuing education fund established under IC 5-2-8-2.
(i) If a person who holds a valid license to carry a handgun issued under this chapter:
(1) changes the person's name;
(2) changes the person's address; or
(3) experiences a change, including an arrest or a conviction, that may affect the person's status as a proper person (as defined in IC 35-47-1-7) or otherwise disqualify the person from holding a license;
the person shall, not later than thirty (30) days after the date of a change described under subdivision (3), and not later than sixty (60) days after the date of the change described under subdivision (1) or (2), notify the superintendent, in writing, of the event described under subdivision (3) or, in the case of a change under subdivision (1) or (2), the person's new name or new address.
(j) The state police shall indicate on the form for a license to carry a handgun the notification requirements of subsection (i).
(k) The state police department shall adopt rules under IC 4-22-2 to implement an electronic application system under subsection (a). Rules adopted under this section must require the superintendent to keep on file one (1) set of classifiable and legible fingerprints from every person who has received a license to carry a handgun so that a person who applies to renew a license will not be required to submit an additional set of fingerprints.
(l) Except as provided in subsection (m), for purposes of IC 5-14-3-4(a)(1), the following information is confidential, may not be published, and is not open to public inspection:
(1) Information submitted by a person under this section to:
(A) obtain; or
(B) renew;
a license to carry a handgun.
(2) Information obtained by a federal, state, or local government entity in the course of an investigation concerning a person who applies to:
(A) obtain; or
(B) renew;
a license to carry a handgun issued under this chapter.
(3) The name, address, and any other information that may be used to identify a person who holds a license to carry a handgun issued under this chapter.
(m) Notwithstanding subsection (l):
(1) any information concerning an applicant for or a person who holds a license to carry a handgun issued under this chapter may be released to a federal, state, or local government entity:
(A) for law enforcement purposes; or
(B) to determine the validity of a license to carry a handgun; and
(2) general information concerning the issuance of licenses to carry handguns in Indiana may be released to a person conducting journalistic or academic research, but only if all personal information that could disclose the identity of any person who holds a license to carry a handgun issued under this chapter has been removed from the general information.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.26-1990, SEC.15; P.L.48-1993, SEC.5; P.L.140-1994, SEC.6; P.L.269-1995, SEC.6; P.L.2-1996, SEC.284; P.L.27-2001, SEC.1; P.L.120-2001, SEC.1; P.L.49-2005, SEC.2; P.L.187-2005, SEC.3; P.L.190-2006, SEC.2; P.L.155-2007, SEC.1; P.L.47-2010, SEC.1; P.L.34-2010, SEC.4.

IC 35-47-2-23
Violations; classes of misdemeanors and felonies
Sec. 23. (a) A person who violates section 3, 4, 5, 14, 15, or 16 of this chapter commits a Class B misdemeanor.
(b) A person who violates section 7, 17, or 18 of this chapter commits a Class C felony.
(c) A person who violates section 1 of this chapter commits a Class A misdemeanor. However, the offense is a Class C felony:
(1) if the offense is committed:
(A) on or in school property;
(B) within one thousand (1,000) feet of school property; or
(C) on a school bus; or
(2) if the person:
(A) has a prior conviction of any offense under:
(i) this subsection; or
(ii) subsection (d); or
(B) has been convicted of a felony within fifteen (15) years before the date of the offense.
(d) A person who violates section 22 of this chapter commits a Class A misdemeanor. However, the offense is a Class D felony if the person has a prior conviction of any offense under this subsection or subsection (c), or if the person has been convicted of a felony within fifteen (15) years before the date of the offense.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.16-1984, SEC.20; P.L.140-1994, SEC.9; P.L.17-1997, SEC.7.

Best,

Joe

 

[Glock32j]

I bet it was a mustang cop on I-65 that pulled you over.....

 

[Kirk Freeman]

But I definitely don't ever want this to happen again.

Then don't be yapping to the cops about how you have a gun.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

I always figured that, in a traffic stop, I would give the officer the courtesy of handing him my LTCH with my DL and notify him that I had a legal weapon in the car. I had my LTCH in my wallet right with my DL in case that ever happened. From what I can see, these kinds of stories are a little too common. I just moved my LTCH where it can't be seen when I access my DL and think now I'll only offer it if I am asked if I have any weapons, which is probably very unlikely, or if for some reason, the officer will see it.

Thanks for sharing this story.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I always figured that, in a traffic stop, I would give the officer the courtesy of handing him my LTCH with my DL and notify him that I had a legal weapon in the car.

That's the problem, EPRN, you're a good person and want to do the right thing so you think going above and beyond will only help.

It does not. It gets you hassled with potentially a gun pointed at you.

If they don't ask, you don't tell. Just be cool, you're not doing anything wrong (well, other than the alleged infraction, a non-crime).

 

[dross]

"Officer, I have a gun in my car. I also have a screwdriver, some pliers, a hickory axe handle, an empty plastic water bottle, my daughter's baby doll (named Sally), some ATM withdrawl receipts, an old pair of prescription sunglasses, several old oil change receipts, an old sock I used for a rag, and some kind of hard candy with a lot of fuzz stuck to it stuck between the seats that I can't quite reach."

After all, it's only polite to inform.

 

[theweakerbrother]

I'm an Indiana resident. I have valid firearm licenses for both Indiana and Florida. I've never had an officer understand how I can have both without a 15 minute conversation. I just hand them the Indiana one, now.

One said he wished Indiana's licenses were more like Florida's. I didn't bother to ask why but I can guess why.

Now if I could just stop from getting pulled over.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

"Officer, I have a gun in my car. I also have a screwdriver, some pliers, a hickory axe handle, an empty plastic water bottle, my daughter's baby doll (named Sally), some ATM withdrawl receipts, an old pair of prescription sunglasses, several old oil change receipts, an old sock I used for a rag, and some kind of hard candy with a lot of fuzz stuck to it stuck between the seats that I can't quite reach."

After all, it's only polite to inform.

Dross, I see your point, but only one of those things would be any cause for concern if inadvertantly seen by a LEO and only one would lead to a potential overreaction by the LEO. I was in favor of notifying not to be polite, (although I have nothing against politeness with LEOs) but in order to avoid the officer being unnecessarily concerned for his safety, and therefore complicating things for me. I've changed my mind because apparently, notifying them is not likely to decrease his concern from what I can see. I won't go any further with this because I don't want to cause another "notify or not" threadjack