My experience on the side of the road with a state trooper

[Hornett]

This begs a question***
As in the other thread, you get pulled over.
The officer asks if you have a firearm,
You tell the truth... "Yes Officer, I do."
Then he asks you to hand it over 'for his safety'.
At this point can you politely refuse to give up your personal property and still be legal?
I really don't think he can confiscate your handgun, or anything else for that matter, without a warrant.
AND Does the fact that you told him 'yes' instead of 'I refuse to answer' cause you to lose your right to your personal property?
This is how I see truthfully answering seemingly innocuous questions can deprive you of rights under the law.

 

[kadetklapp]

ugh corrupt cops

Who's corrupt? Didn't you get smacked down for going on a tirade about cops already last month? We get it, you don't like the police.

OP, I have a pretty good idea (in fact I'm almost certain) who stopped you. This fits his MO.

That being said, I still think a lot of the reactions people get from LEOs is the result of a lack of understanding/training/comprehension of Indiana's carry laws on the part of the LE agencies. ILEA needs to require training in this area. Hell, they make us take mandatory training in identifying ferrous metals, dealing with autistic persons, and other areas which are bland and unnecessary. I think dealing with constitutional issues such as this make much more sense and would reduce the amount of complaints such as this.

 

[kadetklapp]

This begs a question...
You get pulled over.
The officer asks if you have a firearm,
You tell the truth... "Yes Officer, I do."
Then he asks you to hand it over 'for his safety'.
At this point can you politely refuse to give up your personal property and still be legal?
I really don't think he can confiscate your handgun without a warrant.
AND Does the fact that you told him 'yes' instead of 'I refuse to answer' cause you to lose your right to your personal property?
This is how I see truthfully answering seemingly innocuous questions can deprive you of rights under the law.

I believe that case law has shown that an officer may disarm a person he is dealing with for the purposes of officer safety. I could be wrong, I'm not sure.

I've done it both ways. Pulled over a kid last fall for headlight out. Walk up and he has a terrified look on his face and on the seat next to him is a Mossberg 500. He had his hands gripped to the steering wheel and was obviously concerned about how I would react. I told him to relax that it was not a big deal to me. So long as he didn't reach for it we would not have a problem. He had just left he woods and was 18 so I sent him on his way after telling him about his headlight.

One of the recent times I've taken a lawful weapon from a guy was when he brake-checked me because he felt I was "following" him around. Then he proceeded to throw a fit in the middle of the street and being extremely belligerent and then tells me "I've got a gun, too! You want that??" Why yes, yes I do. Thanks.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

ILEA needs to require training in this area.

Quoted for back up.

I've long argued this same thing, that it is a training issue and should be addressed. And then I get slapped around.

 

[Roadie]

Personally, if I am asked:
"Do you have any illegal drugs or weapons in the car?"

..to cover my butt, and make sure my answer can't be taken out of context, I will answer:

"Officer, there is nothing illegal in my car"

THEN, if the LEO specifically asks about ANY weapons, I will answer honestly.

I just don't want the question to be misinterpreted as meaning:
Do you have any illegal drugs or any weapons in the car.
When I hear it as:
Do you have any illegal drugs or illegal weapons in the car.
..as previously mentioned.

 

[Roadie]

I believe that case law has shown that an officer may disarm a person he is dealing with for the purposes of officer safety. I could be wrong, I'm not sure.

I've done it both ways. Pulled over a kid last fall for headlight out. Walk up and he has a terrified look on his face and on the seat next to him is a Mossberg 500. He had his hands gripped to the steering wheel and was obviously concerned about how I would react. I told him to relax that it was not a big deal to me. So long as he didn't reach for it we would not have a problem. He had just left he woods and was 18 so I sent him on his way after telling him about his headlight.

One of the recent times I've taken a lawful weapon from a guy was when he brake-checked me because he felt I was "following" him around. Then he proceeded to throw a fit in the middle of the street and being extremely belligerent and then tells me "I've got a gun, too! You want that??" Why yes, yes I do. Thanks.

I wish more LEOs used their gut like you do, rather than labeling ALL gun owners as potential threats. Thank you. However, case law has also determined once the LTCH is produced, in the absence of any other PC or RS, any inquiry regarding the weapon must end.

How many times have we heard about LEOs pulling a gun on a citizen when the citizen has an LTCH and is not a threat? I made the mistake of being a smartass to a Carmel cop once during a traffic stop. When he asked me what was under the blanket in the back seat, I said "A dead body" and promptly had a gun in my face, his finger on the trigger, while I was pulled out of the car, sprawled over the hood then my car was searched.
Oh, I had a spare tire and some tools under the blanket, BTW

My point is, some LEOs need to be trained to not over-react, while still maintaining their safety. Just my

 

[ATM]

..to cover my butt, and make sure my answer can't be taken out of context...

So complicated...

"Why am I being detained?" is never taken out of context.

 

[roscott]

I've done it both ways. Pulled over a kid last fall for headlight out. Walk up and he has a terrified look on his face and on the seat next to him is a Mossberg 500. He had his hands gripped to the steering wheel and was obviously concerned about how I would react. I told him to relax that it was not a big deal to me. So long as he didn't reach for it we would not have a problem. He had just left he woods and was 18 so I sent him on his way after telling him about his headlight.

One of the recent times I've taken a lawful weapon from a guy was when he brake-checked me because he felt I was "following" him around. Then he proceeded to throw a fit in the middle of the street and being extremely belligerent and then tells me "I've got a gun, too! You want that??" Why yes, yes I do. Thanks.

Common sense? They still make that stuff? Repped!

 

[Roadie]

So complicated...

"Why am I being detained?" is never taken out of context.

Agreed, however, I believe Indiana law is written in such a way that one has to provide the LTCH if asked, so while your question will cover most situations, it will not cover all.

 

[ATM]

Agreed, however, I believe Indiana law is written in such a way that one has to provide the LTCH if asked, so while your question will cover most situations, it will not cover all.

Sure, I will provide the LTCH if asked for it.




...along with another heaping yet polite helping of "Why am I being detained?"

 

[Roadie]

Sure, I will provide the LTCH if asked for it.




...along with another heaping yet polite helping of "Why am I being detained?"

I remember being pulled over when I was a teenager, sitting there for 30 minutes while the LEO looked all over and under my car, ran my license, ran my plates, blah blah. I asked the Officer why I was being detained, and he said "Because I can".

Ah, if I only knew then what I know now..

 

[IndyGunner]

I remember being pulled over when I was a teenager, sitting there for 30 minutes while the LEO looked all over and under my car, ran my license, ran my plates, blah blah. I asked the Officer why I was being detained, and he said "Because I can".

Ah, if I only knew then what I know now..

So what should you have done in that situation? Telling them they cant search you wont make them stop. All they have to do is make up some bs and they can do whatever they want. This is probably my #1 thing against cops right next to already being at a huge advantage in court and not having to follow the same laws we do. (I.e. speeding to go eat or something when there is no emergency)

 

[Fargo]

I believe that case law has shown that an officer may disarm a person he is dealing with for the purposes of officer safety. I could be wrong, I'm not sure.

I've searched the caselaw more than once and I haven't found any such caselaw relevant to Indiana. Of course, if you can articulate reasons to believe that a person is armed AND dangerous you are probably good to go under Terry and its Indiana analogs. However, if it is just "armed", I know of know legal justification for such a seizure.

Best,

Joe

 

[UncleMike]

So what should you have done in that situation? Telling them they cant search you wont make them stop. All they have to do is make up some bs and they can do whatever they want. This is probably my #1 thing against cops right next to already being at a huge advantage in court and not having to follow the same laws we do. (I.e. speeding to go eat or something when there is no emergency)

 

[warangelcometh]

{ I have told both supervisors that "this is EXACTLY why people don't inform your officers they have legally possessed firearms in their vehicles. Had I kept my mouth shut, I would have gotten a ticket or warning and been on my way in 7-8 minutes. }

Precisley Watson!!! Over Zealous Barney strikes again.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Gotta love the juxtapostion of:

I believe that case law has shown that an officer may disarm a person he is dealing with for the purposes of officer safety. I could be wrong, I'm not sure.


I've searched the caselaw more than once and I haven't found any such caselaw relevant to Indiana.

next to:

All they have to do is make up some bs and they can do whatever they want

It's not BS, we just showed it right in front of you.

Cop: Cops can do this because we are cops.
Lawyer: No, you cannot, you just made that up.
Young Dude: Yeah, man, cops can make stuff up and then what I 'posed to do?
Cop: Cops don't ever make nothing up.

Someone alert the Cosmic Irony Police. Just another reason I love INGO. That's beautiful.

So what should you have done in that situation?

Nothing, just relax, you're not breaking the law.

If he wants to play the waiting game, I would make some calls or take a nap. When he comes back, ask if you are free to go and take your ticket and blow kisses at him.

 

[Roadie]

So what should you have done in that situation? Telling them they cant search you wont make them stop. All they have to do is make up some bs and they can do whatever they want. This is probably my #1 thing against cops right next to already being at a huge advantage in court and not having to follow the same laws we do. (I.e. speeding to go eat or something when there is no emergency)

I think if that happened now, I would just keep asking why I was being detained, turn on the recorder on my phone, and report it later.

 

[dross]

Gotta love the juxtapostion of:



next to:



It's not BS, we just showed it right in front of you.

Cop: Cops can do this because we are cops.
Lawyer: No, you cannot, you just made that up.
Young Dude: Yeah, man, cops can make stuff up and then what I 'posed to do?
Cop: Cops don't ever make nothing up.

Someone alert the Cosmic Irony Police. Just another reason I love INGO. That's beautiful.



Nothing, just relax, you're not breaking the law.

If he wants to play the waiting game, I would make some calls or take a nap. When he comes back, ask if you are free to go and take your ticket and blow kisses at him.

Basher.

 

[IndyGunner]

I think if that happened now, I would just keep asking why I was being detained, turn on the recorder on my phone, and report it later.

It's not BS, we just showed it right in front of you.

Someone alert the Cosmic Irony Police. Just another reason I love INGO. That's beautiful.

hah I would love to see what he would do when you reached for your phone. Im not bashing cops here guys, but SOME abuse their power. Its a cops word against yours and if you get an azzhole then good luck. I never said the reason you were arrested or detained would ever be held up in court. Im saying they can make your life a living hell until you are either let go, or when you are done paying thousands of dollars to a lawyer just to prove you didnt do it. They DO NOT need solid probable cause, they can make it up if they REALLY want to. (most dont, jus sayin) And the part about not having to follow laws... when have you EVER seen a cop driving the same or slower speed than you...

 

[Love the 1911]

hah I would love to see what he would do when you reached for your phone. Im not bashing cops here guys, but SOME abuse their power. Its a cops word against yours and if you get an azzhole then good luck. I never said the reason you were arrested or detained would ever be held up in court. Im saying they can make your life a living hell until you are either let go, or when you are done paying thousands of dollars to a lawyer just to prove you didnt do it. They DO NOT need solid probable cause, they can make it up if they REALLY want to. (most dont, jus sayin) And the part about not having to follow laws... when have you EVER seen a cop driving the same or slower speed than you...

I was just passed multiple times on my way home from Plainfield. (Of course I was in my personal vehicle, the squad car adds about 2 minutes to my 5 minute drive to the grocery store, I can't imagine what it would do to take it 15 miles)