Multiple dead in shootings at multiple mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand

[ArcadiaGP]

I don't think this guy had mental issues.

I mean, if we're saying he did, we're saying everyone does. Strong beliefs aren't mental issues.

 

[BugI02]

[snippety]
And the latest bit of insanity, Q-anaon saying that ALL democrats eat children, the Democratic party is just a global conspiracy to traffic children for pedophiles & cannibals...
And this is going main stream, the Q-anaon book is on Amazon's best seller list! [snip]

So you don't think Baal/Nero could be the 2020 Democratic ticket?

 

[printcraft]

Nice theory.

Let's say distributing murder pr0n is criminalized in NZ. And our young American friend continues to host the murder pr0n on his site accessible to NZers. Then, NZ decides to charge him with distributing murder pr0n and asks the US for his extradition.

There's a treaty between the US and NZ that allows for extradition. That may or may not apply - we don't really know yet.

But, the exercise in finding out would be expensive. And subject to certain political whims beyond young Josh's control.

ETA:



I didn't say it was illegal here. I said (paraphrasing myself) that the participation trophy for playing the game with NZ could be painful. Painfully expensive, if they want to press the issue.

NZ needs to have a closed network like North Korea then, No outside access if the want to control content.
This guy isn't seeking out or advertising his wares to NZ.
If NZ'ers seek it out then THEY should be prosecuted under NZ law.

 

[JettaKnight]

Let's say distributing murder pr0n is criminalized in NZ. And our young American friend continues to host the murder pr0n on his site accessible to NZers. Then, NZ decides to charge him with distributing murder pr0n and asks the US for his extradition.

Is it informative murder porn?

Recently, I think Tim Berners-Lee was actually worrying about the web fracturing into each country having their own.

 

[Ark]

I don't think this guy had mental issues.

I mean, if we're saying he did, we're saying everyone does. Strong beliefs aren't mental issues.

I agree with this. Hate is not a mental illness. Extremism is not a mental illness. ISIS fighters were of sound mind and body when they were throwing alleged homosexuals off rooftops and burning captives alive.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I know this might not sit well with some, but watching the news just now, they were mentioning that Trump was being blamed for the NZ attack, and for the increase in "white supremacist violence". Has it occurred to any of these idiots that maybe, just maybe, if there has been an increase in these crimes, it's not due to "white supremacy", but might just be due to white people being blamed for every ill of the world? Don't get me wrong. I do not endorse any of these violent attacks, but if we accept that some groups lash out because they've felt that they have been marginalized, why would it be out of the realm of possibility that some whites (extremists, to be sure) are beginning to feel marginalized themselves?

Sure, white people have done some crappy stuff. So have brown people, black people and yellow people. Why is feeling marginalized deemed an "excuse" for some groups lashing out, while it is dismissed out of hand for whites? Again, I am emphasizing that I don't condone it out of any group, and I'm certainly not making excuses or defending it in any way whatsoever, but it occurs to me that even the friendliest dog will bite you if you kick it enough.

 

[Ziggidy]

I don't think this guy had mental issues.

I mean, if we're saying he did, we're saying everyone does. Strong beliefs aren't mental issues.

Anyone who walks in and shoots up 50 people crouching in a corner, well.....that goes beyond strong beliefs; probably as close to mentally ill as one can get.

 

[JettaKnight]

Sure, white people have done some crappy stuff. So have brown people, black people and yellow people. Why is lashing out deemed an "excuse" for some groups lashing out, while it is condemned out of hand for whites?

It sounds like you're saying there are people excusing the murder of 50 people by a non-white killer. As if in another context, people might just say, "Well, you can't blame that black lesbian for bombing that NRA meeting held in a Baptist church, killing 50 white men."

As Wikipedia says, "citation needed". (fringe tweeters need not apply)

Again, I am emphasizing that I don't condone it out of any group, and I'm certainly not making excuses or defending it in any way whatsoever, but it occurs to me that even the friendliest dog will bite you if you kick it enough.

That actually does sound like you're excusing it. It sounds like you saying, "not surprised this guy killed 50 Muslims - he's been 'marginalized'. But, he was wrong!"




To even hint about a reason or excuse for his behavior is beyond the pale.

 

[jbombelli]

It sounds like you're saying there are people excusing the murder of 50 people by a non-white killer. As if in another context, people might just say, "Well, you can't blame that black lesbian for bombing that NRA meeting held in a Baptist church, killing 50 white men."

As Wikipedia says, "citation needed". (fringe tweeters need not apply)


That actually does sound like you're excusing it. It sounds like you saying, "not surprised this guy killed 50 Muslims - he's been 'marginalized'. But, he was wrong!"




To even hint about a reason or excuse for his behavior is beyond the pale.

He had a reason for what he did. It may not be what we here would consider a valid reason, but he had his reason. It is not" beyond the pale" to try and figure out what that reason might be. Understanding and justifying ate two entirely different things.

 

[cbhausen]

The video mp4 file (link in post #154 of this thread) has been replaced by a BitTorrrent. It's still there but anyone wanting to see it will have to do a little bit more work to download it. The full manifesto is packaged with the video. The admin of the ftp site said his hosting service requested he remove the file. The admin also said in a readme file (in the same folder) he will destroy the server shortly.

There are images of the guns used there as well.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

It sounds like you're saying there are people excusing the murder of 50 people by a non-white killer. As if in another context, people might just say, "Well, you can't blame that black lesbian for bombing that NRA meeting held in a Baptist church, killing 50 white men."

As Wikipedia says, "citation needed". (fringe tweeters need not apply)


That actually does sound like you're excusing it. It sounds like you saying, "not surprised this guy killed 50 Muslims - he's been 'marginalized'. But, he was wrong!"




To even hint about a reason or excuse for his behavior is beyond the pale.

*sigh* See, I knew I would be misunderstood. I am NOT excusing his behavior, in any way, shape or form. Let me be crystal clear about that. He was a wacko, and deserves a slow, horrible death, period, full stop, as does anyone who would do such a thing, no matter their race, color or creed. Clear enough? Good.

Here's what I AM saying. I don't know about you, but I don't like being accused of things I haven't done, nor had anything to do with. As an example, people have made blanket statements about Muslims, Blacks, etc. (ie. "all Muslims are terrorists" or "all blacks are thugs and criminals"). Muslims and Blacks have pushed back against this, and rightfully so. So, now that it's become fashionable to say, "everything that's wrong with the world can be attributed to white Christian males", why would nobody expect some push back? Actually in the NZ killer's case I've heard that he was atheist (can't confirm), but it doesn't stop people from blaming ALL whites for the actions of this lunatic. That's what people are doing when they blame "Trump" for this crap. He's no more to blame than you nor I.

As others have said, it goes to tribalism and "us vs. them" mentality. Maybe everyone should stop blaming groups and start blaming individuals. Crazy, I know.

And actually people have excused non-white killers (ie. terrorists) for their lot in life. I don't recall the name, but it was a Democrat politician that suggested that all we needed to do to stop Islamic terrorism was to give those people jobs. Gimme a freakin' break. As if being jobless is an excuse for going out and blowing up temples, or mosques or churches or abortion clinics, what have you.

 

[Libertarian01]

Anyone who walks in and shoots up 50 people crouching in a corner, well.....that goes beyond strong beliefs; probably as close to mentally ill as one can get.

I respectfully disagree. I have hauled mentally ill folks. They do what they do for a variety of reasons, all of which can be normally explained in some manner.

This f***er, he was just evil. Sometimes folks are just pure evil. No illness, not disturbed, nor demented. Just evil. This is very rare I'll admit, I would agree with your statement more times than not. But I don't dismiss evil.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Ziggidy]

I respectfully disagree. I have hauled mentally ill folks. They do what they do for a variety of reasons, all of which can be normally explained in some manner.

This f***er, he was just evil. Sometimes folks are just pure evil. No illness, not disturbed, nor demented. Just evil. This is very rare I'll admit, I would agree with your statement more times than not. But I don't dismiss evil.

Regards,

Doug

I'd be a fool to disagree with you....

 

[CTC B4Z]

So is there any news on what happened in court Saturday?

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Is it informative murder porn?

Recently, I think Tim Berners-Lee was actually worrying about the web fracturing into each country having their own.

I think that someday, people will talk about how cool it used to be when the internet was totally free, like the open range was before the barbwire fences came.

 

[churchmouse]

I think that someday, people will talk about how cool it used to be when the internet was totally free, like the open range was before the barbwire fences came.

^This^^^^^^

The thought police are coming. And we set all of this **** in motion.

 

[BugI02]

*sigh* See, I knew I would be misunderstood. I am NOT excusing his behavior, in any way, shape or form. Let me be crystal clear about that. He was a wacko, and deserves a slow, horrible death, period, full stop, as does anyone who would do such a thing, no matter their race, color or creed. Clear enough? Good.

Here's what I AM saying. I don't know about you, but I don't like being accused of things I haven't done, nor had anything to do with. As an example, people have made blanket statements about Muslims, Blacks, etc. (ie. "all Muslims are terrorists" or "all blacks are thugs and criminals"). Muslims and Blacks have pushed back against this, and rightfully so. So, now that it's become fashionable to say, "everything that's wrong with the world can be attributed to white Christian males", why would nobody expect some push back? Actually in the NZ killer's case I've heard that he was atheist (can't confirm), but it doesn't stop people from blaming ALL whites for the actions of this lunatic. That's what people are doing when they blame "Trump" for this crap. He's no more to blame than you nor I.

As others have said, it goes to tribalism and "us vs. them" mentality. Maybe everyone should stop blaming groups and start blaming individuals. Crazy, I know.

And actually people have excused non-white killers (ie. terrorists) for their lot in life. I don't recall the name, but it was a Democrat politician that suggested that all we needed to do to stop Islamic terrorism was to give those people jobs. Gimme a freakin' break. As if being jobless is an excuse for going out and blowing up temples, or mosques or churches or abortion clinics, what have you.

DD if you can find a link, I would recommend reading his manifesto if you want some insight into his mental state. I think it's worth the time. He does not seem like a madman in his recorded thoughts, just twisted

In my mind he comes from the Turner Diaries/Tim McVeigh part of the far right spectrum. I don't know if it's an artifact of the echo chamber they live in, but some of these people seem to believe that there are a vast number of like minded individuals primed and ready to go, that all they need is the proper spark. I wonder if only interacting with other true believers makes them think a far greater portion of the public is like them than is true in the realz

 

[Trigger Time]

I think that someday, people will talk about how cool it used to be when the internet was totally free, like the open range was before the barbwire fences came.

Internet is free? Ive always paid for internet

 

[ArcadiaGP]

DD if you can find a link, I would recommend reading his manifesto if you want some insight into his mental state. I think it's worth the time. He does not seem like a madman in his recorded thoughts, just twisted

In my mind he comes from the Turner Diaries/Tim McVeigh part of the far right spectrum. I don't know if it's an artifact of the echo chamber they live in, but some of these people seem to believe that there are a vast number of like minded individuals primed and ready to go, that all they need is the proper spark. I wonder if only interacting with other true believers makes them think a far greater portion of the public is like them than is true in the realz

The idea of appealing to a literally anonymous crowd points to craving notoriety... being noticed by senpai.

He wrote and said humorous things before killing people, so he'll likely be propped up as an icon (in a dark humor sort of way.) Much like how people talk about Columbine and "beating the high score". This guy wanted to be a meme.

Though he definitely channeled it through some existing hate.

 

[Ingomike]

I wonder if only interacting with other true believers makes them think a far greater portion of the public is like them than is true in the realz

This was the quote I was trying to articulate in the world want to take guns thread,