Merry Christmas! You killed your step-daughter.

[Birds Away]

By all means, start building the scaffold. The branch of Moms Against Defensive Action have spoken. Anyone got a rope?

 

[SERparacord]

When they sign the affadavit that they mean to do you bodily harm, is a witness or notary required?

No argument here. Fire away, sound shots are cool. Nothing can go wrong.

 

[Birds Away]

No argument here. Fire away, sound shots are cool. Nothing can go wrong.

I completely see your point. I will just keep em all locked up. They are just for the range anyway.

 

[Manatee]

By all means, start building the scaffold. The branch of Moms Against Defensive Action have spoken. Anyone got a rope?

As opposed to the Bubba members.

 

[Fargo]

No argument here. Fire away, sound shots are cool. Nothing can go wrong.

Where are you getting that this was a sound shot? After all, folks out at night in Colorado don't wear hats or hoods now do they? Especially when they sneak out on foot!

Do you ask them to remove their cover before or after you draft the affidavit?

 

[Birds Away]

As opposed to the Bubba members.

From you I consider that a compliment.

 

[Manatee]

Cool. Have another brewski and try not to shoot anyone today.

 

[Fargo]

As opposed to the Bubba members.

Cool. Have another brewski and try not to shoot anyone today.

I am not planning to shoot anyone today. However, I have a continuing and longstanding exception to that rule for anyone who breaks into a window of my home at night. If you would prefer not to get shot, I suggest not breaking in. I know it is hard for some to grasp, but at least give it a try.

 

[Manatee]

I'll bet you'd be awful proud then if you killed one of your own doing something stupid then.

God bless your gene pool

 

[Birds Away]

Cool. Have another brewski and try not to shoot anyone today.

I don't drink. I also have no intention and certainly no desire to shoot anyone. I have no 14 year old daughters sneaking out to meet their boyfriends. In fact, I live alone. So, if someone kicks my door in at 3am you'll forgive me if I don't immediately think its an overzealous girl scout trying to unload that last box of cookies. There's a happy medium in life. I strive to find it. You should too.

 

[Fargo]

I'll bet you'd be awful proud then if you killed one of your own doing something stupid then.

God bless your gene pool

I bet you would be awfully proud watching your wife and daughters get raped in front of you by the home invader you let climb into your home because you didn't have the sense to consider that home invaders pretty much always intend harm. If you don't want to get shot, don't play burglar. It really is that simple.

Doorbells, a really easy way not to get shot!

 

[SERparacord]

Where are you getting that this was a sound shot? After all, folks out at night in Colorado don't wear hats or hoods now do they? Especially when they sneak out on foot!

Do you ask them to remove their cover before or after you draft the affidavit?

So he saw his target. Even worse for him. Even though one shot missed it.

 

[indydrew1]

I bet you would be awfully proud watching your wife and daughters get raped in front of you by the home invader you let climb into your home because you didn't have the sense to consider that home invaders pretty much always intend harm. If you don't want to get shot, don't play burglar. It really is that simple.

Doorbells, a really easy way not to get shot!

Identifying your target when you have minor childern in your home and your a grown ass man is also a really easy way not to shoot a damn kid dead. But to hell with that, shoot first and ask questions later, even when you have kids in your house.

 

[Fargo]

Identifying your target when you have minor childern in your home and your a grown ass man is also a really easy way not to shoot a damn kid dead. But to hell with that, shoot first and ask questions later, even when you have kids in your house.

Where the hell did I say that? Why is no one here even willing to consider the possibility that this kid got shot because this kid decided to play burglar on an occupied home? Responsibility and consequences for actions; They apparently don't apply to home invaders on INGO.

I'm not saying the stepdad could/should not have done better.

I am saying I'm not going to automatically pile on a guy who shoots a person breaking into his home at night.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If dad had called, cops had arrived, found her in the window, and shot her...I wonder what the reaction would be here.

I don't care what the law says or if he gets off. He killed his stepdaughter. You think he's going to shrug it off, sit down to Christmas dinner, and then have a fantastic rest of his life? Legal consequences aren't the only consequences.

 

[SERparacord]

If dad had called, cops had arrived, found her in the window, and shot her...I wonder what the reaction would be here.

I don't care what the law says or if he gets off. He killed his stepdaughter. You think he's going to shrug it off, sit down to Christmas dinner, and then have a fantastic rest of his life? Legal consequences aren't the only consequences.

Lots of if's, what if he had turned on a light.

 

[MikeDVB]

None of this is criticism of anybody here but simply my views/comments on what has been said. Don't take any of this personally [or, if you do, keep it to yourself].

All home defense firearms should have a light attached or sitting next to it. If you cannot positively identify your target...DO NOT SHOOT!!!

Personally I don't like the idea of having a light on the gun for the simple fact that I'm sweeping the house with the gun if I'm just wanting to light up parts of the room. I've no formal training in this regard so this is just my own personal view on not pointing the firearm at anything I do not intend to destroy. That said - if you can keep your wits about you and your finger off the trigger it's less of an issue but that could still be an issue even if the gun isn't pointed out and about - you could shoot yourself in the leg/foot or shoot through your floor as well, etc.

There are some scenarios where you might have someone in your home that might not intend to do you harm. Especially if you have family in the home. If you go shooting first and ask questions later, you might have this same scenario.

Indeed - shooting first without verifying what/who you're shooting at is a huge gamble at best. At worst it's likely going to be the worst decision you ever made.

I had one time in the past (prior to me having a cell phone) where our home phone was not working (had to replace wiring to house) and I was startled awake with someone in my house. When my parents could not reach me during a family emergency they drove to my home...knocked and walked in (they had a key to my house). If I would not have identified them first, I would have killed my own parents. I chastised them for their actions...but that said...it is really MY responsibility to confirm my target.

Not really on-topic but how would you have preferred they make you aware of said family emergency if there was no other way to reach you?

FWIW I was taught not to sneak into or about the house.

I was never taught that myself but my father was 110% anti-gun so it was a non-issue. That said - if you plan on having a firearm and using a firearm after dark you should have a light of some sort. I would not rely on the interior lighting of the house - what if the power's out and a burglar decides that's the right time to hit your house?

Not enough info in the story.

Agreed.

Had there been a burglary or other nearby, one with injuries/death?

While that may make you more aware/cautious I certainly wouldn't accept that as a justification for shooting first and asking questions later myself.

Threats specific to that family?

This would certainly weigh heavily in any decision I think but would still not release the shooter from verifying their target was a threat.

Did the kid sneak out and come home?

Irrelevant.

If so, what was the kid doing out and about prior to being shot?

Irrelevant.

Years ago I had a stepkid (and their buddies) threaten to kill me, and burn my kids to death as well. They actually showed up (well drove up to the corner, never got out of vehicle). I was ready to shutdown anything they started.

Thankfully nothing happened. If such threats were made and it were me I'd likely file a report stating as such with the police that way - if something did happen - at least it's documented that the threats had been made previously. Additionally if I knew they were sitting at the corner and planning on coming in - since I'd have already made said report - I'd likely have called the police and let them handle it. Only after they gain entry to my residence and I am sure they intend to do me or my family harm will I decide whether to shoot or not.

Overall, with that, me thinks that society would be better off if some stepkids did get popped.

So a kid's parents got divorced [or was widowed] and then they remarried and suddenly they're a stepkid and need to be popped? Isn't that a pretty extreme generalization about stepkids?

You don't have to answer - this is largely rhetorical to point out the silliness of what you've said. If you disagree - I don't care - but feel free to respond if you like.

OP's story........might have been a terrible accident.

Most likely.

Might have been just what was needed. Some rather A holes kids do "snap pout of it". Most don't, but then are just screwups in general, no real threat.

Nobody deserves to die for being a 'screwup', 'a hole', etc. If they intend to do you harm and/or kill you - sure - action is necessary.

Ultimately if you shoot you have to live with that decision for the rest of your life be it living free or incarcerated.

But some never do, and are truly dangerous, even at age 14.

Sure - and if that's the case then it should be able to be proven in court that the act was self-defense. I find it highly unlikely that this 14 year old minor was intending to do her stepparent harm - if they were - they could do so at any point it wouldn't have to be early AM on Christmas day.

There are plenty of reasons why a person might be in your house, but not be a threat to you.

Indeed - there are several family members that I trust with keys to my house. You never know when they may need to get into the house for any reason when I'm not here or even if I am and I've lost my key/locked myself out/etc.

That said - I keep a few high-efficiency LED lights on 24/7. There's enough light in each room to discern whether an individual is a threat or not - but this doesn't stop me from having the 50 lumen/200 lumen tactical light next to the gun on the night stand. 200 lumens to the face in the middle of the night even in a slightly lit room can and will be blinding at least for a short time. It's long enough to discern who the target is and whether they're a threat IMHO. Just one use of a light - it's also always there in case the power is out.

Ultimately you get to shoot who ever you want. I just hope you don't shoot a kid, your spouse or an old senile person who isn't a threat to you.

Aye - anybody can [i.e. is physically capable] shooting anybody or anything they want. Whether or not they should and whether or not they'll remain free after doing so is an entirely different story.

And no, I'm not a "duty to retreat" person. I'm a "don't shoot people who don't need to be shot" person.

Absolutely.

If you are in my house and you don't turn on the light when it is dark you must be up to no good.

So if I was sleeping in your guest room and I got up to get a glass of water at 6 AM because I was thirsty I have to turn on every light I pass on my way out and turn them back off on my way back regardless of whether I can see with them off or need them?

That seems a bit silly/absurd to me.

If you're sneaking around my house that's one thing... If you're sneaking around my house with the intent to do me or my family harm that's an entirely different matter. I would not lump them into the same basket.

 

[Birds Away]

If dad had called, cops had arrived, found her in the window, and shot her...I wonder what the reaction would be here.

I don't care what the law says or if he gets off. He killed his stepdaughter. You think he's going to shrug it off, sit down to Christmas dinner, and then have a fantastic rest of his life? Legal consequences aren't the only consequences.

I imagine that would be the case anytime you took someone's life for whatever reason. This only multiplies that several thousand times. I feel sorry for him and the girl's mother. I just get tired of the people who talk out of both sides of their mouth. Not trying to downplay the incident or to try to justify it. I just think some of the folks are being disingenuous about this topic. In a middle of the night home invasion scenario it might be next to impossible to "positively" identify your target. You have to know your own situation and take all of those things into account before making a life or death decision. It's easy to sit here on the Internet and Monday morning quaterback everyone else's decisions. It's also easy to appoint yourself judge, jury and executioner based upon a couple of facts and a whole bunch of suppositions. Regardless of what really happened it is a tragedy. Unfortunately, and despite what some people here my suppose, you probably aren't going to have an infinite amount of time to make that decision. Considering that you will probably have just been awoken from a sound sleep...I wish you the best of luck.

 

[lonehoosier]

Lots of if's, what if he had turned on a light.

And give away the element of surprise. That what I hear from the CC people all the time.

 

[Fargo]

I imagine that would be the case anytime you took someone's life for whatever reason. This only multiplies that several thousand times. I feel sorry for him and the girl's mother. I just get tired of the people who talk out of both sides of their mouth. Not trying to downplay the incident or to try to justify it. I just think some of the folks are being disingenuous about this topic. In a middle of the night home invasion scenario it might be next to impossible to "positively" identify your target. You have to know your own situation and take all of those things into account before making a life or death decision. It's easy to sit here on the Internet and Monday morning quaterback everyone else's decisions. It's also easy to appoint yourself judge, jury and executioner based upon a couple of facts and a whole bunch of suppositions. Regardless of what really happened it is a tragedy. Unfortunately, and despite what some people here my suppose, you probably aren't going to have an infinite amount of time to make that decision. Considering that you will probably have just been awoken from a sound sleep...I wish you the best of luck.

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