List your shooters here.

[jamil]

Walker joust!!!

Ha.....

May the better helmet win....

Please take video. But maybe leave the audio off. Not sure anyone wants to hear "freedom" ripping.

 

[2A_Tom]

Too many twists and turns in a thread to keep track of.

= =

 

[indiucky]

There are a lot of people that think I intentionally attempt to cause an issue. I assure you, I am not. In most instances, I give my heartfelt opinion (which is often from a perspective that is alien to the vast majority of membership). I am the product balance. I would rather see the opposing viewpoint first, before interjecting my own view. Hence why I am a bit of a contrarian. I understand people get ticked off at me, and when they fly off the handle, I often implore mods not to ban them. I don't want anyone banned on my acct. I try to get people to think outside of their comfort zones, and consider things that are often in the grey area.
You give me grief BF, but I respect you because you don't fly off the deep end. I welcome any challenge to my stances, as there are plenty of thing I can learn from everyone.

And this is why I like Kut...He keeps me honest and makes ME think before I fly off the handle...I can count on Kut to always show me a side I had not thought of...I may not agree with him but I hate an echo chamber......Whenever I make some statement I can count on Kut to throw back a legitimate alternate point of view....Even though he's usually wrong....

 

[2A_Tom]

Usually?

 

[indiucky]

Usually?

Yep...Usually...

Kut says many things that even HE does not agree with....But he knows that some folks DO think that way, and are not represented here on a white bread, Jesus loving, middle America gun forum....He throws their voices out there for us to hear...It took me four years to see that and once I did finally get where Kut was coming from I found myself in a better place and better able to chat with Kut....

This forum needs kut...Especially in these times....

Whenever I see a post by Kut that I disagree with I don't see "You are wrong and I am right and here is why" but more like "Here is another way of looking at this from the perspective of a gay person, a minority, an Atheist, a Muslim, etc...."

Kut gives voice to the absentee...We need that...I know at this stage in my life I do....

 

[churchmouse]

Yep...Usually...

Kut says many things that even HE does not agree with....But he knows that some folks DO think that way, and are not represented here on a white bread, Jesus loving, middle America gun forum....He throws their voices out there for us to hear...It took me four years to see that and once I did finally get where Kut was coming from I found myself in a better place and better able to chat with Kut....

This forum needs kut...Especially in these times....

Whenever I see a post by Kut that I disagree with I don't see "You are wrong and I am right and here is why" but more like "Here is another way of looking at this from the perspective of a gay person, a minority, an Atheist, a Muslim, etc...."

Kut gives voice to the absentee...We need that...I know at this stage in my life I do....

He tends to keep me honest and on point.
In this I admit to looking at issues from other angles agree or not.

 

[indiucky]

He tends to keep me honest and on point.
In this I admit to looking at issues from other angles agree or not.

I may road trip up to Indy, pick you up on the west side and put a Confederate flag decal on the back of my 1993 Ford F 150...Then we'll put a bunch of empty beer and bourbon bottles in the bed and tool around Carmel to see if we can get pulled over by kut.....As he is writing us a speeding ticket and having me blow in the breathalyzer I'll start playing the white trash card....

"Aw c'mon man...You know you jest writin' this har ticket cuz I'm po', white, and got that thar rebel flag on the back of thas here truck...Ifn y'all do that me and Church here ain'ta gonna stick up fer ya no more on INGO!!!!"

Then we will take Kut out for a cheeseburger and make him listen to Molly Hatchet on the way to the diner....

Probably "Flirting With Disaster"...that would seem appropriate...

 

[halfmileharry]

There are a lot of people that think I intentionally attempt to cause an issue. I assure you, I am not. In most instances, I give my heartfelt opinion (which is often from a perspective that is alien to the vast majority of membership). I am the product balance. I would rather see the opposing viewpoint first, before interjecting my own view. Hence why I am a bit of a contrarian. I understand people get ticked off at me, and when they fly off the handle, I often implore mods not to ban them. I don't want anyone banned on my acct. I try to get people to think outside of their comfort zones, and consider things that are often in the grey area.
You give me grief BF, but I respect you because you don't fly off the deep end. I welcome any challenge to my stances, as there are plenty of thing I can learn from everyone.

Kut, you have a place here. I'd rather debate with you than anyone else.
I look forward to seeing your perspective on many levels.

 

[CindyE]

Yep...Usually...

Kut says many things that even HE does not agree with....But he knows that some folks DO think that way, and are not represented here on a white bread, Jesus loving, middle America gun forum....He throws their voices out there for us to hear...It took me four years to see that and once I did finally get where Kut was coming from I found myself in a better place and better able to chat with Kut....

This forum needs kut...Especially in these times....

Whenever I see a post by Kut that I disagree with I don't see "You are wrong and I am right and here is why" but more like "Here is another way of looking at this from the perspective of a gay person, a minority, an Atheist, a Muslim, etc...."

Kut gives voice to the absentee...We need that...I know at this stage in my life I do....

I agree with this. At first, I thought "Oh no, there's Kut, what's he going to say now? I bet it will bug me!" But now I get it...and it is helpful at times. I find myself playing devil's advocate at times, too. It annoys my husband most of the time, but I think most of us learn and grow if we can understand other points of view, without getting mad.

 

[rhino]

I don't ignore people who disagree with me. I ignore people that if I were sitting next to them at a bar I would be tempted to knock them off their stool for the way they talk to people, lack of integrity, or general prickishness. I also ignore those people in real life, not sure why I'd be any different online.

The least you could do is help me get back on my stool next time.

I have next to zero interest in debate or argument. I'll read someone else's opinion or I'll offer mine and we're free to take it or leave it. Trying to convince someone else via a back and forth contest is abhorrent to me.

 

[Kutnupe14]

If I had the ability to blush, I would.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Whenever I see a post by Kut that I disagree with I don't see "You are wrong and I am right and here is why" but more like "Here is another way of looking at this from the perspective of a gay person, a minority, an Atheist, a Muslim, etc...."

Kut gives voice to the absentee...We need that...I know at this stage in my life I do....

I honestly don't see how those people are absentee. We've got representatives of all of them. I've no idea of Kut takes that role upon himself, so prior to generating any misunderstandings nothing I say here is directed at him. And he's not on my ignore list, for those keeping score at home.

As we know each other, I'm sure you'll take this in the spirit it's offered. If you want to know what those people think, seek them out. No group is monolithic, although human nature (and lately I've learned the very structure of our brain) encourages us to think this way. My take on something is not the "Muslim take" on something. My wife and I have different opinions on, say, gay marriage. Relying on someone who is not even part of a given group to 'represent' that group is even less useful. The white guy trying to explain to the Indian why he should say "Native American" comes to mind.

The best way to get an understanding is to interact with a variety of people, and to understand the limits of our empathy and experience. We all operate on a scale. I can count on one finger all of the Russians I know, have never been to Russia, and what I actually know about Russia or the "Russian experience" is extremely finite. I probably "know" more about the imaginary Russia as presented to us during the Cold War or in story books than real Russia. It's easy for me to realize I don't really have a valid opinion on what it's like to be Russian. The trip wires are when we're marginally familiar. My first wife was black. That doesn't mean I authentically understand the 'black experience'. She was from Jersey City. She did not authentically understand the 'rural southern black' experience. Similarly, I've got a good understanding of the unique issues with an interracial marriage, both in the military culture and away from it. Yet people who've never been in the position are full of advice on how to deal with it. People who've never been in the military but know someone, or were related to someone, wear their stripes and preach about how it "really is" or what have you. I find that type of in-authenticity lacking in real understanding and as such, holds little value or interest to me.

If one's goal is simply to debate for debate's sake, where you pull a position out of a hat and argue that position to the best of your ability simply because that's the take you've been assigned, then go for it. It's a sport, an academic exercise, and I understand the skills it hones and the enjoyment some get out of it. There's nothing wrong with it. It's like televised sport vs actual fighting. I'm just less and less interested in the artificial representations. The contrarian for the sake of being contrarian holds no interest to me. Someone who's legitimately interested, who's speaking from a place of passion and real belief, and who's intellectual honest interests me a great deal. While I've gotten to know you primarily after your brush with mortality, I assume that's flavored your take on things. I like you because of your humility and honesty. If you believe "X" than "X" is what comes out of your mouth, with the understanding it may actually be "Y". It's the same reason I revisit Dostoevsky's account of living through an impending execution only to get a reprieve at the last minute, and how that effected him and lingered with him, making him who he was in a very real way. It's honesty that few men ever get to experience and come back from. That's real, and that's rare.

Plus you're a legitimately nice guy and ply me with soda. If INGO has given me nothing else, meeting you and Churchmouse would have made the whole time investment worth it. Rhino, I guess, but I hate to give him praise as he'll likely figure out some way to cut himself with it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I honestly don't see how those people are absentee. We've got representatives of all of them. I've no idea of Kut takes that role upon himself, so prior to generating any misunderstandings nothing I say here is directed at him. And he's not on my ignore list, for those keeping score at home.

I take no role other than that to get people to consider how what they think may appear to others. I am not the representative of the black race. I am not the representative of LE. I am not the representative of Southern Baptists. I am my own man, with my own opinions, influenced heavily by God, travel, occupation, and family.
You're a fan of Dostoevsky. Then you will understand this. I will not relinquish my place on the sidewalk, we can both acknowledge each other and step aside, or we can collide head on. And while I prefer the latter, I will certainly not shirk the confrontation, especially knowing if I did, it would torture me endlessly until we met again.

Kut (is clear your post isn't about him)

Good post btw. I'd buy you a soda... Speedway work?

 

[BugI02]

The ignore list has a valid place here. I have several on my list. Among them are members that have admitted to criminal activity and arrests in the past and a couple cases of stolen valor. Some of those members are quite knowledgeable and I almost always click and read their posts anyway. I've got them marked not because I necessarily want to ignore them or what they have to say, but because I want to make sure not to deal with them in the classifieds. When I see that little 'click me' button then it reminds me to to look up why they are on that list. When a member says "I've been arrested so many times in Illinois I can't remember them all" then I want to make sure I never conduct a deal with them. That's only one of the extra ways to use the list.

Most of the members on my ignore list have been permanently shootered for one reason or another. It's just another tool to use on the forum.


MJ has never been on my ignore list. I may not agree with him on everything, but he brought valid points and different perspectives to discussions. That being said, I would mostly read his opinions, and very rarely comment on them.

When he would get really spooled up, for some reason I would picture Stan Marsh's sister Shelly on S. Park (a male version, of course)

 

[BugI02]

I must be the ONLY member, that has NOT used the ignore list .....

Negative, Ghost Rider

 

[BugI02]

I only ignored 1 member early on and that was so I would not lite him up.
Now, Mods can not ignore anyone........darn it.....

Wellllll, banning them sort of slows down their posting

 

[Expat]

The least you could do is help me get back on my stool next time.

I have next to zero interest in debate or argument. I'll read someone else's opinion or I'll offer mine and we're free to take it or leave it. Trying to convince someone else via a back and forth contest is abhorrent to me.

You are completely wrong for reasons....
Your turn.

 

[indiucky]

I take no role other than that to get people to consider how what they think may appear to others. I am not the representative of the black race. I am not the representative of LE. I am not the representative of Southern Baptists. I am my own man, with my own opinions, influenced heavily by God, travel, occupation, and family.
You're a fan of Dostoevsky. Then you will understand this. I will not relinquish my place on the sidewalk, we can both acknowledge each other and step aside, or we can collide head on. And while I prefer the latter, I will certainly not shirk the confrontation, especially knowing if I did, it would torture me endlessly until we met again.

Kut (is clear your post isn't about him)

Good post btw. I'd buy you a soda... Speedway work?

It's me...BBI is like a brother from another to me....BBI is right in a way...I create my box, part of it is age, part of it is my personality, part of it is having an autistic daughter that keeps us in our own little clan, and part of it is just I like to be in control...Here at the shop, the farm, my house I can be in control....Kut and I had a private conversation one time regarding the role he plays for me....He's a sounding board and we have gotten to a point where I can ask him anything and he will not judge me or take offense...You and I have the same thing going but it's more on a hilljack level....We come from the same clay and love and married women outside of our culture who love us in spite of ourselves...BBI and I are pretty darn blessed that way....


BBI you know I can't get out and travel like you and interact with folks the way you do...You are more like Laura in that regard (which is why you all get along so well....)I admire you for it...I respect you for it...Wish I had a little bit of it...But I am who I am brother....


Man I wish you and Kut were here...On to Indy's for some mild wings and Dr. Pepper and some good conversation....

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I take no role other than that to get people to consider how what they think may appear to others. I am not the representative of the black race. I am not the representative of LE. I am not the representative of Southern Baptists. I am my own man, with my own opinions, influenced heavily by God, travel, occupation, and family.
You're a fan of Dostoevsky. Then you will understand this. I will not relinquish my place on the sidewalk, we can both acknowledge each other and step aside, or we can collide head on. And while I prefer the latter, I will certainly not shirk the confrontation, especially knowing if I did, it would torture me endlessly until we met again.

Kut (is clear your post isn't about him)

Good post btw. I'd buy you a soda... Speedway work?

I've got in on good authority you don't actually exist. I forget the exact logic, but it was something to do with no one had actually met you. If I did meet you at Speedway (where officers in uniform get free soda, so that wasn't lost on me...) would it be some sort of Schrodinger's cat scenario where you both exist and don't exist until I look in your car?

I'm on until late tonight. PM me sometime after, say, 8pm if you're working and assuming run load allows I'm up for it.

 

[indiucky]

I honestly don't see how those people are absentee. While I've gotten to know you primarily after your brush with mortality, I assume that's flavored your take on things. I like you because of your humility and honesty. If you believe "X" than "X" is what comes out of your mouth, with the understanding it may actually be "Y".

You know I have this "wall"....You are welcome in it because the same reasons that you respect me, I respect you....I trust you and yours...I will keep the wall up, but I have noticed some cracks in it that were not there before....

I can't get out there and get "in it" like you do brother....I admire you for it...I respect you for it...But I just can't do it.....

So....Sounds like we need to get 50 Indy's wings and bask in the awesomeness that is in two guys very similar, yet different, and with mutual respect....

Your friendship means a lot to me...I mean it....