Life Begins At Conception

[ChristianPatriot]

I wonder, at which point did that oak become alive?

It doesn't matter

 

[lovemachine]

At what point does a pizza become a pizza?

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Well, little eldirector, when a mommy tree and a daddy tree love each other - and are properly betrothed - they share a special kind of hug.... and wood...

Although, I'm pretty sure that oaks have both female flowers and male flowers on the same tree, so I'm not sure that the process can be guaranteed to be "sin-free".

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

That is an oak seedling.

Under favorable conditions it will take root and become an oak sapling.

It isn't an oak tree until it measures 4" diameter at breast height.

So, no...that isn't an oak tree.

Although, now that I think about it, if we're being analogous, once the acorn is fully formed it becomes entirely independent of the parent tree.

From that point on, it has the same capability of continued life as the mature tree (albeit more tenuous). Just like the mature tree, it will continue to grow and develop as long as it's environmental conditions are conducive.

 

[bacon#1]

I sooooo want to make a joke off this...

I would like to hear this joke!

 

[T.Lex]

Although, I'm pretty sure that oaks have both female flowers and male flowers on the same tree, so I'm not sure that the process can be guaranteed to be "sin-free".

Hey, you keep your hippy ideas to yourself, mister.

And I'm getting tired of your self-congratulatory screenname and clearly phallic avatar.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I think some of you are missing Paul's point...

 

[mbills2223]

As both a Catholic and a man of science I will never doubt that human life begins at conception. Abortion disgusts me, and I will not go further in an attempt to be diplomatic.

 

[GregD]

As both a Catholic and a man of science I will never doubt that human life begins at conception. Abortion disgusts me, and I will not go further in an attempt to be diplomatic.

No need to be diplomatic, you just stated the truth !

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Hey, you keep your hippy ideas to yourself, mister.

And I'm getting tired of your self-congratulatory screenname and clearly phallic avatar.

My screenname was originally my Ebay handle (I swear it's true). Then my son saw it, laughed, and explained it to me.

 

[indiucky]

I think some of you are missing Paul's point...

I get his point but I like Paul....I am treading lightly here because I feel strongly about potential and that's why I feel for the loss of every aborted child...I will not say much because I feel it would do no one any good and probably get me banned....I was on Paul's side up until age thirty or so...I disagree that one's opinion can not change on this subject........I have noticed the older I get the more I appreciate the joys we have on this earth...I want every potential person to feel rain, sunshine, the joy of a first kiss, the buck of a big bore revolver, or the sound of a thunderstorm...

Peregrine Falcon eggs scrambled up in a cast iron skillet may be tasty but I do not think I could convince the judge that they were not actually peregrine falcons......

All offered in my humble opinion.......

 

[PaulF]

And yet, all along: it's an oak.

so it doesn't count until it is in its final, mature state? (note I didn't say size/height).

-rvb

Okay, let's cut to the chase, then...

You want me to agree that a clump of cells without a functioning brain, lungs, kidneys, eyes, or stomach is just as human as a fully-developed (breathing) human child, because they both have "unique" human DNA...right?

I won't. I don't agree with your assessment. A zygote is not a baby. It might become one...someday, but that doesn't make it one now.

But let's move past this, we are just going to go around in circles on this. This argument is entirely pointless, and I'll explain why:

Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that I agree...a foetus is a human being, replete with all the rights and responsibilities that go along...that doesn't change my position on abortion one bit. Surprised? You shouldn't be.

It is my position that if a completely separate human being is, in fact, occupying my body against my will I have the right to remove that occupant at any time, for any reason...it is my body, first and foremost, and no one has more say about what goes on with it than me. Not the government, not other people outside my body, and certainly not an unwelcome occupant within it.

Do you consider that homocide? Fine. I consider it justifiable homocide, then. I have agency over my body, not foetus-come-lately. Pregnancy is traumatic, permanently life-altering, and potentially deadly. It is my choice, and mine alone, to take those risks upon myself or leave them behind.

I understand the majority of you feel differently about this...I get that.

 

[T.Lex]

My screenname was originally my Ebay handle (I swear it's true). Then my son saw it, laughed, and explained it to me.

Uh... your son saw... what exactly? And describe it in detail. With a throaty kind of... Kathleen Turner kind of voice.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Okay, let's cut to the chase, then...

You want me to agree that a clump of cells without a functioning brain, lungs, kidneys, eyes, or stomach is just as human as a fully-developed (breathing) human child, because they both have "unique" human DNA...right?

I won't. I don't agree with your assessment. A zygote is not a baby. It might become one...someday, but that doesn't make it one now.

But let's move past this, we are just going to go around in circles on this. This argument is entirely pointless, and I'll explain why:

Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that I agree...a foetus is a human being, replete with all the rights and responsibilities that go along...that doesn't change my position on abortion one bit. Surprised? You shouldn't be.

It is my position that if a completely separate human being is, in fact, occupying my body against my will I have the right to remove that occupant at any time, for any reason...it is my body, first and foremost, and no one has more say about what goes on with it than me. Not the government, not other people outside my body, and certainly not an unwelcome occupant within it.

Do you consider that homocide? Fine. I consider it justifiable homocide, then. I have agency over my body, not foetus-come-lately. Pregnancy is traumatic, permanently life-altering, and potentially deadly. It is my choice, and mine alone, to take those risks upon myself or leave them behind.

I understand the majority of you feel differently about this...I get that.

Bingo. Thank you Paul. That saved me a lot of typing.

 

[rvb]

I think some of you are missing Paul's point...

I'm trying to understand it. honestly.
It's his analogy. And he is drawing a line when "it" becomes an oak tree. I'm trying to understand his analogy to when "it" becomes a human being. If a sapling doesn't cut it, does a toddler? It seems he is looking for "functional" (his word) equivalence?

I think his point was around rights, so with this analogy, at what point they are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life..." I gather from the analogy it's when we "can make a canoe from them?"

I give up. clue me in.

-rvb

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I'm trying to understand it. honestly.
It's his analogy. And he is drawing a line when "it" becomes an oak tree. I'm trying to understand his analogy to when "it" becomes a human being. If a sapling doesn't cut it, does a toddler? It seems he is looking for "functional" (his word) equivalence?

I think his point was around rights, so with this analogy, at what point they are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life..." I gather from the analogy it's when we "can make a canoe from them?"

I give up. clue me in.

-rvb

See above PaulF post

 

[mbills2223]

Okay, let's cut to the chase, then...

You want me to agree that a clump of cells without a functioning brain, lungs, kidneys, eyes, or stomach is just as human as a fully-developed (breathing) human child, because they both have "unique" human DNA...right?

I won't. I don't agree with your assessment. A zygote is not a baby. It might become one...someday, but that doesn't make it one now.

But let's move past this, we are just going to go around in circles on this. This argument is entirely pointless, and I'll explain why:

Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that I agree...a foetus is a human being, replete with all the rights and responsibilities that go along...that doesn't change my position on abortion one bit. Surprised? You shouldn't be.

It is my position that if a completely separate human being is, in fact, occupying my body against my will I have the right to remove that occupant at any time, for any reason...it is my body, first and foremost, and no one has more say about what goes on with it than me. Not the government, not other people outside my body, and certainly not an unwelcome occupant within it.

Do you consider that homocide? Fine. I consider it justifiable homocide, then. I have agency over my body, not foetus-come-lately. Pregnancy is traumatic, permanently life-altering, and potentially deadly. It is my choice, and mine alone, to take those risks upon myself or leave them behind.

I understand the majority of you feel differently about this...I get that.

What if you had engaged in activity that would knowingly give said occupant a 9 month lease?

 

[GregD]

What if you had engaged in activity that would knowingly give said occupant a 9 month lease?

That is very good mbills!

 

[ChristianPatriot]

What if you had engaged in activity that would knowingly give said occupant a 9 month lease?

Still his body

 

[mbills2223]

Still his body

How hard is it to remove a renter from a property you own?