Life Begins At Conception

[GregD]

Of course I know who. PaulF doesn't believe in that who. That's kinda what I'm getting at.

Then let us have our thread, he can start his own if he would like, and we should be respectful of him there.

 

[rvb]

It is my position that if a completely separate human being is, in fact, occupying my body against my will I have the right to remove that occupant at any time, for any reason...

this is the real difference in opinion, then...
to me, that's like hanging a sign on your door saying "vagrants welcome," and then shooting them for trespassing and saying 'yea, he had rights, but that was risky for me and he was living off my resources"

in INGO lingo: "good shoot?"

pregnancies don't just mysteriously happen (except for one time). It's a consequence of an action (the purpose of which is making more humans)... if one doesn't want pregnancies, they can be avoided...

-rvb

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Says anyone who understands basic biology.

Anybody who understands basic biology, and those of us who have studied advanced biology, knows that there isn't some kind of biological law that makes human abortion any different than a mother mouse in a crowded enclosure who eats her babies.

 

[chipbennett]

Anybody who understands basic biology, and those of us who have studied advanced biology, knows that there isn't some kind of biological law that makes human abortion any different than a mother mouse in a crowded enclosure who eats her babies.

Nope. There's nothing at all that separates humans from animals.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Anybody who understands basic biology, and those of us who have studied advanced biology, knows that there isn't some kind of biological law that makes human abortion any different than a mother mouse in a crowded enclosure who eats her babies.

We're no better than wild animals?

 

[ChristianPatriot]

My original statement:

Your body and the body of the unborn are not the same thing. The right to do with your own body whatever you want ends where the body of the unborn begins.

So, you concede that the first (highlighted) part of that statement is true, as demonstrated by a basic understanding of biology?

So what? Paul already said he would have no remorse for ending a human life if it were inside his body. (There's a new sig line for ya Chez)

 

[chipbennett]

So what? Paul already said he would have no remorse for ending a human life if it were inside his body. (There's a new sig line for ya Chez)

So you do concede that, from a basic understanding of biology, that your body and the body of the unborn are not the same thing?

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

We're no better than wild animals?

When I say that I believe humans are no better than wild animals, it's not based on a belief that humans are not good, but that both humans and wild animals are incredibly, wonderfully, remarkable creations.

 

[rvb]

Abortion is not always 100% wrong. There's exceptions such as tubal pregnancy where the mother will die along with the baby.

We went through such an ordeal. First Dr wanted to abort. Got some other opinions and baby was delivered at 26 weeks. 1lb 14 oz. We decided to give him every opportunity to fight it out. Had we waited another couple of hours I'd have lost them both. It wasn't tubal (which yea, in that case, it is often "save one or none"), it was HELLP, a form of preeclampsia. That was a rough time. He finally came home after 3 months in the NICU, plus another few months of oxygen and monitors at home.

-rvb

 

[UTL]

Why do you guys hate Freedom, it should be between the man and the woman. Not the man, woman and some guy that lives in his moms basement.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

So you do concede that, from a basic understanding of biology, that your body and the body of the unborn are not the same thing?

What do I think? Or what do I think speaking on behalf of Paul's side?

 

[HamsterStyle]

OK......... who knocked up paul?

All Paul wanted was a cheeseburger. Lol

 

[indiucky]

Don't want a baby? Use birth control- and it's not just the woman's responsibility. Using 2 kinds of birth control at once is pretty effective. Abortion, IMO, should not be used as birth control.

There are quite a few "choices" before having to make a choice that destroys a life..Well said...rep inbound...

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

When I say that I believe humans are no better than wild animals, it's not based on a belief that humans are not good, but that both humans and wild animals are incredibly, wonderfully, remarkable creations.

Maybe I misread your comment. Are you saying that because a mouse might eat it's young, it's acceptable for humans to respond because that's what a mouse would do? That we shouldn't tamp down base animal instincts in favor of humanity and a higher respect for life of our own children?

 

[GregD]

Maybe I misread your comment. Are you saying that because a mouse might eat it's young, it's acceptable for humans to respond because that's what a mouse would do? That we shouldn't tamp down base animal instincts in favor of humanity and a higher respect for life of our own children?

It is very sad, but it seems to be happening a lot.

 

[chezuki]

Rearing a child can be emotionally draining

You can say that again!

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Maybe I misread your comment. Are you saying that because a mouse might eat it's young, it's acceptable for humans to respond because that's what a mouse would do? That we shouldn't tamp down base animal instincts in favor of humanity and a higher respect for life of our own children?

I was responding to Chip's comment that those who understand biology know that abortion is wrong (paraphrasing). I was just saying that from a biological standpoint, I don't think that there is a difference. But, to your comment, I do believe that maybe the biggest difference between humans and animals is our ability to do just as you say, tamp down those base instincts in favor of humanity and a higher respect for life of our own children. So, it would have been better for me to have said that I believe the difference is there, but I doubt that I learned it from any biology class.

 

[indiucky]

Of course I know who. PaulF doesn't believe in that Who. That's kinda what I'm getting at. It's extremely difficult to have this conversation unless we agree on the same version of right and wrong.

When referring to that Who one should capitalize Who.....

My Faith (like yours, is yours) calls for love.....I see Paul differently than others...I see myself (before I believed in Who) in Paul...When I am talking to Paul I speak to him as an equal in search of truth....Paul has never (to my knowledge) tried to sway anyone to his belief...He makes his case for why he believes what he believes..I have never once thought of him as anything more or less than a man searching for answers...

I know this...He once put aside his beliefs to pray for myself, my wife and my little girl during a tragic loss...He did so publicly...I don't know Paul...Never met him face to face and he and I have had disagreements in the past...What that showed me is that when it comes time to man up and cut bait Paul will get on bent knee and pray to someone he may or may not believe in for a friend.....He is welcome at my table or fire anytime....

Paul asks many questions and seems to be looking for the same answers all of us seek...Who are we? Why are we here? Do we matter? Are we just matter? Is there a purpose to our existence or are we just the product of random mutations leading up to these messed up beings that are ourselves?

I do believe we all (eventually) get to that curious point in our lives where we quote from Psalms 8 and look to the heavens and ask, "What is man that thou art mindful of him?"

May God Bless you and yours...I enjoy your posts CP....

 

[CindyE]

When referring to that Who one should capitalize Who.....

My Faith (like yours, is yours) calls for love.....I see Paul differently than others...I see myself (before I believed in Who) in Paul...When I am talking to Paul I speak to him as an equal in search of truth....Paul has never (to my knowledge) tried to sway anyone to his belief...He makes his case for why he believes what he believes..I have never once thought of him as anything more or less than a man searching for answers...

I know this...He once put aside his beliefs to pray for myself, my wife and my little girl during a tragic loss...He did so publicly...I don't know Paul...Never met him and he and I have had disagreements in the past...What that showed me is that when it comes time to man up and cut bait Paul will bend his knee to someone he may or may not believe in for a friend.....He is welcome at my table or fire anytime....

Paul asks many questions and seems to be looking for the same answers all of us seek...Who are we? Why are we here? Do we matter? Are we just matter? Is there a purpose to our existence or are we just the product of random mutations leading up to these messed up beings that are ourselves?

"What is man that thou art mindful of him?"

I think this is the best post I've seen in this thread. I'd rep you, but INGO says I have to spread some rep around first!

I think it speaks well for INGO that this thread is still going and nobody is in trouble, it was getting pretty heated for a while, and nobody wins that way. I don't really like conflict, but sometimes i don't feel right if i don't state what I feel is true. I imagine PaulF feels the same.

 

[Spear Dane]

Personally I'm disappointed another great debate broke out and very few people seem to appreciate much what the OP's link is about from non theological standards. It's like watching a star ignite. Literally we now see The Spark of Life. Is that not completely magical?