Larry Vickers shuns the Serpa..

[ravenwoodranch]

I'm not sure I like the serpa but others do, I personally like comptac paddle holsters.

 

[dboz]

I carried a Beretta 9mm in a Serpa leg rig in Iraq for 12 months and loved it. With all of the running around, hordes of children with curious hands, and ample amounts of gear in my truck for it to get caught on, I never once had to worry about firearm retention. If I go back, I will definitely use it again. That being said, the M9 was carried with the hammer down and the safety on. When i did have to draw it, there were still other safety mechanisms in place to check a wandering trigger finger. But with a 1911 that is cocked-and-locked, I don't know I guess will have to buy and train with it before I can make a decision. I don't condemn the entire design as unsafe for all handguns, but I can see where some handgun designs would make me apprehensive.

 

[rhino]

A couple of things . . .

In my opinion, the Serpa and it's non-locking brother are non-starters long before you get to whether or not the mechanism is inherently dangerous or prone to failure. The belt loop that comes with it is about as rugged as a wet piece of single ply toilet paper. Even the best holsters can break, and I'm sure the people who use Serpas will chime-in about how rugged theirs is, but it's not strong enough for my use.

 

[Wild Deuce]

My buddy has a Serpa, seems to like it. Any ideas in particular as to why Vickers doesn't?

Because LAV stumbled across INGO and decided he shouldn't have SERPAs in his classes.




Unless the holster presses the trigger for you, I would tend to believe in flawed and dangerous users ... not flawed and dangerous holsters.

I say just use the equipment that meets your training level instead of something that demands more than you are willing to give.

I have SERPAs in my collection but I don't use them for issues other than the "I'm going to shoot myself" phobia ... issues that involve ruggedness and jamming.

 

[cosermann]

... Vickers is JAFO to me.

I respect Vickers' service, experience, and opinion. No one's right about everything, but Larry has earned some well deserved credibility over the years.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I respect Vickers' service, experience, and opinion. No one's right about everything, but Larry has earned some well deserved credibility over the years.

At least Larry isn't a lone voice in all of this. His is but one of several voices in the professional training community that have banned SERPA's from their courses or at least strongly discourage their use.

 

[MilitaryArms]

I have SERPAs in my collection but I don't use them for issues other than the "I'm going to shoot myself" phobia ... issues that involve ruggedness and jamming.

All training issues. Learn how to use your gear.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

At least Larry isn't a lone voice in all of this. His is but one of several voices in the professional training community that have banned SERPA's from their courses or at least strongly discourage their use.

I view this as being similar to how special education teachers tend to ban pointy scissors. It's more a reflection on the stupidity of their students, rather than a reflection on the equipment.

 

[irishfan]

I view this as being similar to how special education teachers tend to ban pointy scissors. It's more a reflection on the stupidity of their students, rather than a reflection on the equipment.

WOW

I looked at getting a Serpa early on in my holster search but it had mixed reviews. I'm a person that when I am shopping for my first holster for a new gun then I buy something that is considered quality. However, after I have at least one quality holster then I might look at buying others. In the couple of classes I have taken the holster I chose was a simple Fobus. When I carry everyday I always carry IWB in a minotaur but for classes I use a simple Fobus. Later this year I want to take a Tactical Response class and it seems that the Serpa is a no go there as well. Its hard to justify the money on a holster I can't use.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Its hard to justify the money on a holster I can't use.

Well, of course. You don't see parents of special needs children running out & buying pointy scissors & machetes for their child's classes, do you? The difference here is that only some of Vicker's students are special, yet he's treating them all the same, likely because of his insurance company.

When I switch from my XDm to a Gen4 Glock 20, I'll be buying both a MTAC for work & a Serpa for OC on the weekends. I won't carry OC w/out some active retention & I don't like the thumb-levers. For me, the Serpa will be fine because my finger would hit the front of the trigger guard (by 1/4"+) even if I screw up the draw.

 

[MilitaryArms]

The difference here is that only some of Vicker's students are special, yet he's treating them all the same, likely because of his insurance company.

No one has presented any evidence insurance companies have anything to do with this decision. Even if they did, that means there have been enough injuries attributed to the use of SERPA's that the insurance companies deem it too much of a risk, which isn't any better than Larry simply banning it because he wants to. It's actually even more damning.

But like I said, no one has presented any evidence this has anything to do with insurance companies or their policies.

Some of Vickers (and others) "special" students (assuming you mean those who have had ND's/AD's) include what many would consider to be well trained military and LEO personnel. It's not just the Tex Grebners of the world that have had mishaps with the SERPA.

 

[esrice]

I view this as being similar to how special education teachers tend to ban pointy scissors. It's more a reflection on the stupidity of their students, rather than a reflection on the equipment.

What about those cases where FoF students were wrestled to the ground and had their Serpa mechanisms fail, leaving their handguns cemented inside their holsters?

 

[Gamez235]

What about those cases where FoF students were wrestled to the ground and had their Serpa mechanisms fail, leaving their handguns cemented inside their holsters?

Or the ones were the screws to the paddle or belt loops failed and the gun went that, and the shooter when the other way.

 

[MilitaryArms]

What about those cases where FoF students were wrestled to the ground and had their Serpa mechanisms fail, leaving their handguns cemented inside their holsters?

Training issue.

 

[MilitaryArms]

Or the ones were the screws to the paddle or belt loops failed and the gun went that, and the shooter when the other way.

Training issue.

 

[Gamez235]

Training issue.

Your a training issue!

 

[Paco Bedejo]

What about those cases where FoF students were wrestled to the ground and had their Serpa mechanisms fail, leaving their handguns cemented inside their holsters?

It's a lever on a fulcrum with a spring & a locking "nub"... Until somebody gives a photo/video dissection showing how this can magically cement a gun into your holster, requiring it to be cut apart, I'm going to disbelieve such claims. If you're aware of any such photo/video, a link would be much appreciated.

 

[VUPDblue]

It's a lever on a fulcrum with a spring & a locking "nub"... Until somebody gives a photo/video dissection showing how this can magically cement a gun into your holster, requiring it to be cut apart, I'm going to disbelieve such claims. If you're aware of any such photo/video, a link would be much appreciated.

I can't give you photo or video, but I can give you my word that it happened to me. Not a friend told me, or I heard it through the grapevine, but my gun got locked into the holster and had to be cut out.

 

[MilitaryArms]

It's a lever on a fulcrum with a spring & a locking "nub"... Until somebody gives a photo/video dissection showing how this can magically cement a gun into your holster, requiring it to be cut apart, I'm going to disbelieve such claims. If you're aware of any such photo/video, a link would be much appreciated.

Here's an example with snow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htigDRr7tdM

 

[geronimojoe85]

Here's an example with snow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htigDRr7tdM

This was clearly a training issue.