Jose Guerena Affidavit Released

[dross]

Let's say the guy was actually a drug dealer. Doesn't make a lick of difference to me.

So he's a drug dealer and someone is breaking down his door. He doesn't know they're police, so he shoots them. Does the fact that he's a drug dealer mean he has no right to defend himself from people forcing their way into his house?

Now, did he know they were police? Simple logic indicates he did not.

The guy was a Marine with combat experience. If he knew they were cops and he grabbed his rifle, he would have shot them when they came in the door. Think about it.

This guy is a hardened drug dealer, like they say. He sees a bunch of heavily armed and armored SWAT officers outside. He hears them knock and identify themselves. He grabs his rifle to go down shooting. Then he doesn't shoot. Doesn't even take the weapon off safe. If he knew they were cops and grabbed his rifle he would have shot, not waited to die, which he had to know would have happened if he's just standing there holding a rifle.

Instead, he grabs a rifle and waits for them to come through the door. He waits to identify his target. That cost him his life, because he didn't shoot, saw they were cops, then they shot him.

This makes this the cops' fault whether or not he was actually a drug dealer. Which BTW, they found nothing in the raid that killed him to indicate that he was.

This is still a bad, bad thing.

 

[2A_Tom]

I believe, that if Andy had knocked on his door, and said Jose you know that your brother is a bad boy, an some of the boys down town think you might be involved in some of his doin's, so they got judge Floyd to issue this here search warrant for your house, uh do you mind if I take a look around.

Jose would have said why sure Andy.

Honey fix up a batch of bacon n eggs n some biscuits an red eye gravy, while Andy takes a look around.

Youall will join us for breakfast, Sheriff?

But no!

They send in Barny, Goober and Gommer.

Barney shoots himself in the foot putting his bullet into his pistol, and the rest is history.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Anytime someone thinks logically they are a dumb cop that can be replaced by a bucket. Dross is the only person I disagree with that has a logical argument. Everyone else just rambles about what ifs. Or assumes the PC was bad, or assumes portions of the story are completely made up.

 

[bobzilla]

Anytime someone thinks logically they are a dumb cop that can be replaced by a bucket. Dross is the only person I disagree with that has a logical argument. Everyone else just rambles about what ifs. Or assumes the PC was bad, or assumes portions of the story are completely made up.

Not true at all. You have yet to provide a single logical argument.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Not true at all. You have yet to provide a single logical argument.

Point a gun at police officers entering your home and your subject to be shot. It will be justified.

 

[misconfig]

Point a gun at police officers entering your home and your subject to be shot. It will be justified.

FUNK DA PO-LICE!

 

[E5RANGER375]

Point a gun at police officers entering your home and your subject to be shot. It will be justified.

whoooo, im shaking in my boots. I know whats justified and whats not. i know im not a criminal, and I dont hang around any criminals or shady people, I dont do drugs, I dont have any student loans, I own my house and pay my taxes, I keep my grass short, I take my flag in at night, Im not a terrorist or a wood carver, so if someone is kicking in my door (good luck by the way) they are not justified, of that I can be sure. I dont care what their jumpsuit says on it.


--- yeah i took you off my ignore list. blocking him was making me miss parts of the conversations.

 

[bobzilla]

blah blah blah....I'm being an arrogant DB...blah blah blah..

Still wrong. Care to try again? You break into the wrong house and shoot a person defending their home, it is not justified. We do not live in communist Russia. We have laws, a constitution and something called "innocent until proven guilty".

Adjusted for ESRanger.

EDIT: damnit... I didn't realize youtook him off the iggy list.

 

[dross]

Dross is the only person I disagree with that has a logical argument.

Hey don't go being complimentary to me. You'll ruin my popularity around here.

 

[KG1]

Hey don't go being complimentary to me. You'll ruin my popularity around here.

To late, he already did, can't take it back

 

[Keyser Soze]

whoooo, im shaking in my boots. I know whats justified and whats not. i know im not a criminal, and I dont hang around any criminals or shady people, I dont do drugs, I dont have any student loans, I own my house and pay my taxes, I keep my grass short, I take my flag in at night, Im not a terrorist or a wood carver, so if someone is kicking in my door (good luck by the way) they are not justified, of that I can be sure. I dont care what their jumpsuit says on it.


--- yeah i took you off my ignore list. blocking him was making me miss parts of the conversations.

Obviously you have nothing to worry about. If what your saying is true, and I believe it is if you ever were to be involved in a police action shooting it would likely be unjustified. #1 lawful presence? I would be worked up to if I thought the police had no reason to be executing a warrant on said subject....but thats not the case.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Obviously you have nothing to worry about. If what your saying is true, and I believe it is if you ever were to be involved in a police action shooting it would likely be unjustified. #1 lawful presence? I would be worked up to if I thought the police had no reason to be executing a warrant on said subject....but thats not the case.

maybe he was involved in some stuff. but i still cannot connect the dots to the willing use of deadly force by the cops here. they werent even stacked to do a proper entry. they had a shield. If they would have been killed it would have been because of very bad execution and lack of training. was firing the right choice? obviously no in my opinion, but hey i wasnt in the house, but i have been in similar real life incidents in a war zone none the less where I didnt engage just because I saw a weapon thankfully. sometimes people have to shoot it out in the heat of the moment and after the smoke settles one or maybe even both parties will be found to be justified or innocent. when any person is forcing their way into your home then hessitation is gonna get you killed if your armed or not in some cases. with this marines training (and im not sticking up for him because he was a marine) if he wanted to kill a couple of those cops they would have been dead. I think he did not know they were cops at first and then he realized it, made safe and maybe even was lowering his weapon but because of a trigger happy cop he was blown away by all of them. If he wanted them dead, they would be dead, trust me! he was at an advantage not them.
I just really wish we could get more cops on board to change the way policies are regarding tactical entry by police. we need the police to help. its just not right. flashbangs that burn houses down and kill people, and bullets that go into neighbors houses or kill innocent kids or adults. one innocent life lost is one too many. you are police, public servants for god sakes, please stop this war against us citizens. arrest the criminals outside their houses or whatever. stop these dynamic entries, PLEASE!

 

[dross]

maybe he was involved in some stuff. but i still cannot connect the dots to the willing use of deadly force by the cops here. they werent even stacked to do a proper entry. they had a shield. was firing the right choice? obviously no. sometimes people have to shoot it out in the heat of the moment and after the smoke settles one or maybe even both parties will be found to be justified or innocent. when any person is forcing their way into your home then hessitation is gonna get you killed if your armed or not in some cases. with this marines training (and im not sticking up for him because he was a marine) if he wanted to kill a couple of those cops they would have been dead. I think he did not know they were cops at first and then he realized it, made safe and maybe even was lowering his weapon but because of a trigger happy cop he was blown away by all of them. If he wanted them dead, they would be dead, trust me! he was at an advantage not them.
I just really wish we could get more cops on board to change the way policies are regarding tactical entry by police. we need the police to help. its just not right. flashbangs that burn houses down and kill people, and bullets that go into neighbors houses or kill innocent kids or adults. one innocent life lost is one too many. you are police, public servants for god sakes, please stop this war against us citizens. arrest the criminals outside their houses or whatever. stop these dynamic entries, PLEASE!

The weapon on safe is very significant to me. I don't know about current doctrine, but when I was in the Army and we were on patrol, or any time the weapon was at port arms, my thumb rested on the safety. It was automatic as I brought it up, or if I was startled, or any variety of reasons to just flick it off. Even today after recently buying an AR after not shooting one for twenty years, my thumb goes right to the safety and sits on top whenever I pick it up.

If he was going to shoot someone, that weapon wouldn't have been on safe.

 

[lashicoN]

Also keep in mind that the search warrant doesn't require absolute proof, just probable cause.

And what did they find with that search warrant that proves he distributed drugs or did anything illegal? They found guns (I have those), they found a vest (I have that) and they found a hat (I have several). I'm not a drug dealer. Do you have these things in your home? Are you a drug dealer?

Point a gun at police officers entering your home and your subject to be shot. It will be justified.

Oh shut the **** up, Soze. Police officers have their hands on their sidearms when they approach a vehicle. These officers had rifles, shotguns, and handguns out when they broke down the victim's front door on his home. If you don't want us to point guns at you, THEN STOP POINTING THEM AT US! We aren't second class citizens. You don't have more rights than us. There is a limit as to how much power we'll give you over us. If you keep grabbing at it like a maniac, we'll simply revoke it all. The only authority you have, has been granted to you by us. You better take some Ginkgo biloba to help you remember who pays you, before you're out of a job.

It takes a real special sort of coward to want to disarm a man in his own home, on his own property, so said coward can feel safe. Subject to be shot? You've given me fair warning, mine is posted on my driveway. Enter at your own risk. Better bring a shield.

 

[UncleMike]

And what did they find with that search warrant that proves he distributed drugs or did anything illegal? They found guns (I have those), they found a vest (I have that) and they found a hat (I have several). I'm not a drug dealer. Do you have these things in your home? Are you a drug dealer?



Oh shut the **** up, Soze. Police officers have their hands on their sidearms when they approach a vehicle. These officers had rifles, shotguns, and handguns out when they broke down the victim's front door on his home. If you don't want us to point guns at you, THEN STOP POINTING THEM AT US! We aren't second class citizens. You don't have more rights than us. There is a limit as to how much power we'll give you over us. If you keep grabbing at it like a maniac, we'll simply revoke it all. The only authority you have, has been granted to you by us. You better take some Ginkgo biloba to help you remember who pays you, before you're out of a job.

It takes a real special sort of coward to want to disarm a man in his own home, on his own property, so said coward can feel safe. Subject to be shot? You've given me fair warning, mine is posted on my driveway. Enter at your own risk. Better bring a shield.

Someone could use a couple of chill pills.
And maybe another visit to the Therapist.

 

[Keyser Soze]

maybe he was involved in some stuff. but i still cannot connect the dots to the willing use of deadly force by the cops here. they werent even stacked to do a proper entry. they had a shield. If they would have been killed it would have been because of very bad execution and lack of training. was firing the right choice? obviously no in my opinion, but hey i wasnt in the house, but i have been in similar real life incidents in a war zone none the less where I didnt engage just because I saw a weapon thankfully. sometimes people have to shoot it out in the heat of the moment and after the smoke settles one or maybe even both parties will be found to be justified or innocent. when any person is forcing their way into your home then hessitation is gonna get you killed if your armed or not in some cases. with this marines training (and im not sticking up for him because he was a marine) if he wanted to kill a couple of those cops they would have been dead. I think he did not know they were cops at first and then he realized it, made safe and maybe even was lowering his weapon but because of a trigger happy cop he was blown away by all of them. If he wanted them dead, they would be dead, trust me! he was at an advantage not them.
I just really wish we could get more cops on board to change the way policies are regarding tactical entry by police. we need the police to help. its just not right. flashbangs that burn houses down and kill people, and bullets that go into neighbors houses or kill innocent kids or adults. one innocent life lost is one too many. you are police, public servants for god sakes, please stop this war against us citizens. arrest the criminals outside their houses or whatever. stop these dynamic entries, PLEASE!

Obviously tactically this was a nightmare. I can't defend it. I'm not surprised one of you have not put this together after reading the PCA....but....they had excellent surveillance. They knew where everyone worked, the hours there were away from home, what they drove, who they associated with, what they owned. All they had to do was take it one step further and arrested said subjects outside of their home or executed warrant when they were gone.

You say we need more cops on board to change the way we do tactical entries......All of the stories that ive read here are from out of state. I can't think of one department in Indiana that has even half of the resources ive seen in some of these videos. Its my belief threads that have nothing to do with LEOS in indiana, are troll threads. I'll oblige.

That being said we cant just get rid of swat or tactical entries. In 5 years ive been apart of two of these types of entries. In those two situations they were absolutely necessary. The misbehavior of leos should not restrict the tools available to the group as a whole.

 

[jeremy]

______________________________________

 

[USMC_0311]

Point a gun at police officers entering your home and your subject to be shot. It will be justified.

I want to see that helmet cam.

I say he did not point the weapon, if he did there would be dead cops.

I want to give you a neg rep everytime you open your pie hole. I have to reload but it's comming.

 

[KG1]

Obviously tactically this was a nightmare. I can't defend it. I'm not surprised one of you have not put this together after reading the PCA....but....they had excellent surveillance. They knew where everyone worked, the hours there were away from home, what they drove, who they associated with, what they owned. All they had to do was take it one step further and arrested said subjects outside of their home or executed warrant when they were gone.

You say we need more cops on board to change the way we do tactical entries......All of the stories that ive read here are from out of state. I can't think of one department in Indiana that has even half of the resources ive seen in some of these videos. Its my belief threads that have nothing to do with LEOS in indiana, are troll threads. I'll oblige.

That being said we cant just get rid of swat or tactical entries. In 5 years ive been apart of two of these types of entries. In those two situations they were absolutely necessary. The misbehavior of leos should not restrict the tools available to the group as a whole.

Actually if you go back in some of the posts about this incident I do believe the part in bold was brought up a few times.

 

[jeremy]

Obviously tactically this was a nightmare. I can't defend it. I'm not surprised one of you have not put this together after reading the PCA....but....they had excellent surveillance. They knew where everyone worked, the hours there were away from home, what they drove, who they associated with, what they owned. All they had to do was take it one step further and arrested said subjects outside of their home or executed warrant when they were gone.

This was anything but a good operation from the Start of the surveillance all the way to shooting an innocent, to letting him bleed out, to the Cover up that is being thrown on now...

That being said we cant just get rid of swat or tactical entries. In 5 years ive been apart of two of these types of entries. In those two situations they were absolutely necessary. The misbehavior of leos should not restrict the tools available to the group as a whole.

You what to play ****ing Army then Come Join the Army. If not, then be a Peace Officer and quit using Military Like Tactics on the Populace. They will get tired of that crap someday...