Interesting encounter at the DNR shooting range

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  • jesse485

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    23   0   0
    Apr 21, 2008
    619
    18
    La Porte
    As promised, here is the (lengthy) reply from the DNR:

    Jesse, the answer to your questions are a little bit lengthy. I have
    posted the complete rule at the bottom of my response for your
    reference.

    1. The DNR Property rules do permit the holder of a valid "Unlimited
    License" (Personal Protection Permit) to possess a handgun on a DNR
    Property, except for a reservoir owned by the U.S. Army Corps of
    Engineers, or Falls of the Ohio State Park.

    2. It is entirely possible that there are more restrictive rules apply
    while utilizing the range itself, such as no loaded firearms on the
    range area except while actually in a shooting position. This is a
    common safety type concern, and could apply to your personal protection
    firearm also, while you are present on the range area.

    Below, is an excerpt from the DNR Property Regulations pertaining to
    Firearms.

    312 IAC 8-2-3 Firearms, hunting, and trapping
    Authority: IC 14-10-2-4; IC 14-11-2-1; IC 14-22-2-6
    Affected: IC 14-22-11-1; IC 35-47-2
    Sec. 3. (a) A person must not possess a firearm or bow and arrows on a
    DNR property unless one (1) of the following
    conditions apply:
    (1) The firearm or bow and arrows are:
    (A) unloaded and unnocked; and
    (B) placed in a case or locked within a vehicle.
    (2) The firearm or bow and arrows are possessed at, and of a type
    designated for usage on:
    (A) a rifle;
    (B) a pistol;
    (C) a shotgun; or
    (D) an archery;
    range.
    (3) The firearm or bow and arrows are being used in the lawful pursuit
    of either of the following:
    (A) A wild animal on a DNR property authorized for that purpose.
    (B) A groundhog as authorized under a license.
    (4) The person possesses a handgun on a DNR property other than a
    reservoir owned by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
    or Falls of the Ohio State Park:
    (A) with a valid unlimited license to carry a handgun:
    (i) issued under IC 35-47-2-3; or
    (ii) recognized under IC 35-47-2-21(b); or
    (B) pursuant to an exemption to handgun licensure requirements as
    authorized under IC 35-47-2-2.
    (b) Except as provided in subsection (a)(1) or (a)(4), a firearm or bow
    and arrows may not be possessed on DNR properties
    within any of the following:
    (1) A nature preserve unless hunting is authorized under subsection (c).
    (2) A property administered by the division of state museums and
    historic sites.
    (3) A campground.
    (4) A picnic area.
    (5) A beach.
    (6) A service area.
    (7) A headquarters building.
    (8) A hunter check station.
    (9) A developed recreation site.
    (c) A person may hunt on the following DNR properties:
    (1) A state forest administered by the division of forestry, including a
    portion of a state forest that is a nature preserve.
    (2) A reservoir property administered by the division of state parks and
    reservoirs.
    (3) A wildlife area administered by the division of fish and wildlife,
    including a portion of a wildlife area that is a nature
    preserve.
    (4) A nature preserve not otherwise approved for hunting under this
    subsection if approved in a written authorization by the
    director of the division of nature preserves.
    (d) A person hunting on any of the areas described in subsection (c)
    must do the following:
    (1) Comply with all federal and state:
    (A) hunting;
    (B) trapping; and
    (C) firearms;
    laws.
    (2) On a fish and wildlife area and a reservoir property, obtain a one
    (1) day hunting permit and record from a checking station.
    The person must:
    (A) retain the permit and record card while in the field for the
    authorized date; and
    (B) as directed, return them to the department.
    (3) Refrain from hunting on a nature preserve if prohibited by signage
    posted at the site.
    (e) Unless otherwise posted or designated on a property map, a person
    must not place a trap except as authorized by a license
    issued for a property by an authorized representative. This license is
    in addition to the licensing requirement for traps set forth in IC
    14-22-11-1.
    (f) A person must not run dogs, except:
    (1) during the lawful pursuit of wild animals; or
    (2) as authorized by a license for field trials or in a designated
    training area.
    A property administered by the division of fish and wildlife may be
    designated for training purposes without requiring a field trial
    permit. Only dogs may be used during field trials on a DNR property,
    except where authorized by a license on a fish and wildlife
    property.
    PUBLIC USE OF NATURAL AND RECREATIONAL AREAS
    Indiana Administrative Code Page 5
    (g) Unless otherwise designated, a person must not discharge a firearm
    or bow and arrows within two hundred (200) feet of
    any of the following:
    (1) A campsite.
    (2) A boat dock.
    (3) A launching ramp.
    (4) A picnic area.
    (5) A bridge.
    (h) A person must not leave a portable tree blind or duck blind
    unattended except for the period authorized by 312 IAC 9-3-
    2(l).
    (i) The following terms apply to the use of shooting ranges:
    (1) A person must not use a shooting range unless the person is:
    (A) at least eighteen (18) years of age; or
    (B) accompanied by a person who is at least eighteen (18) years of age.
    (2) A person must:
    (A) register with the department; and
    (B) pay any applicable fees;
    before using a shooting range.
    (3) A person must shoot only at paper targets placed on target holders
    provided by the department. All firing must be
    downrange with reasonable care taken to assure any projectile is stopped
    by the range backstop.
    (4) Shot not larger than size 6 must be used on a shotgun range.
    (5) A person must not:
    (A) discharge a firearm using automatic fire;
    (B) use tracer, armor-piercing, or incendiary rounds;
    (C) play on, climb on, walk on, or shoot into or from the side berms; or
    (D) shoot at clay pigeons, except on a site designated for shooting clay
    pigeons.
    Glass and other forms of breakable targets must not be used on a
    shooting range.
    (6) A person must dispose of the targets used by the person under
    section 2(a) of this rule.
    (7) Permission must be obtained from the department in advance for a
    shooting event that involves any of the following:
    (A) An entry fee.
    (B) Competition for any of the following:
    (i) Cash.
    (ii) Awards.
    (iii) Trophies.
    (iv) Citations.
    (v) Prizes.
    (C) The exclusive use of the range or facilities.
    (D) A portion of the event occurring between sunset and sunrise.
    (8) On a field course, signs and markers must be staked. Trees must not
    be marked or damaged.
    (j) A person must not take a reptile or amphibian unless the person is
    issued a scientific collector license under 312 IAC 9-10-6.
    Exempted from this subsection are:
    (1) turtles taken under 312 IAC 9-5-2; and
    (2) frogs taken under 312 IAC 9-5-3;
    from a DNR property where hunting or fishing is authorized. (Natural
    Resources Commission; 312 IAC 8-2-3; filed Oct 28,
    1998,3:32 p.m.: 22 IR 739, eff Jan 1, 1999; filed Nov 5, 1999, 10:14
    a.m.: 23 IR 553, eff Jan 1, 2000; filed Jun 17, 2002, 4:13 p.m.:
    25 IR 3714; filed Sep 19, 2003, 8:14 a.m.: 27 IR 456; readopted filed
    Nov 17, 2004, 11:00 a.m.: 28 IR 1315; filed Sep 14, 2005, 2:45
    p.m.: 29 IR 461, eff Jan 1, 2006; filed Jul 11, 2006, 9:04 a.m.:
    20060802-IR-312060009FRA; filed Sep 6, 2007, 12:20 p.m.:
    20071003-IR-312070023FRA; filed Mar 11, 2008, 9:34 a.m.:
    20080409-IR-312070449FRA)

    Capt. Michael Portteus
    IDNR Law Enforcement
    MPortteus@dnr.IN.gov
     

    mikea46996

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 28, 2009
    1,750
    38
    Winamac
    Wow nice way to completely avoid to subject of how his asshat employee grabbed your weapon creating a safety issue. That just pisses me off. Nice form letter!!!
     

    Rotor Talker

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Mar 15, 2008
    397
    18
    Greenfield
    Oh, whatever!

    He doesn't say anything about that meat-stick excuse for an RO and his conduct.

    I'm actually surprised you got that much of a reply, If it was me, well, first I'd be in close consult with an attorney, for I would have shot him.

    If it was me, I would complain to the governor's office, citing as many names and ranks as possible, and advertise my intention to tell as many registered voters about this travesty as possible, that gets their attention. The people involved and ones who have to reply don't like it, takes time away from vacations and other forms of screwing off on our money that is so much a part of the state.

    I won't ever shoot at any state range again after this, these types are out there and with this guy getting away with this kind of behavior, evidenced by the complete lack of addressing that jerks behavior, more of them will start doing it, no doubt.

    People like that give us all a bad name, I wonder if a letter writing campaign to the property manager would do any good ?

    I wish we knew the A#$H@&#'s name, so we could warn responsible shooters across the state.

    Thanks for the feedback
     

    TheGhostRider

    Watching from a distance…
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jan 10, 2009
    605
    63
    Fort Wayne
    Not trying to be rude here...
    But that ****er would have eaten my elbow and his balls would have bounced off my knees followed up by some other very ugly reactive behavior including a long term stay at a hospital.

    That's if he was lucky.
     

    preachere

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 11, 2009
    76
    6
    Mishawaka
    I just called the range and got the "other" RO, the cranky one and the one I am assuming did this stupid move. Ed, the cool RO, would never pull a stunt like that. Idiot child is hard of hearing so I didn't feel like yelling our conversation. Besides, Ed works tomorrow, can hear, and will answer my questions. I'll fill you guys in on what I find out then.

    Regards,
    Eric
     

    preachere

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Apr 11, 2009
    76
    6
    Mishawaka
    Since the original thread was posted on The High Road with no link provided, can someone please find the original post and get back to me as to which day this was supposed to have happened on? Things like "I just got back from the range" are meaningless after a thread has been kicked around online for a few days. I want to be able to nail down who was working that day and go from there.

    Regards,
    Eric
     

    techres

    Grandmaster
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    27   0   0
    Mar 14, 2008
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    The only time I can imagine a RO grabbing a firearm is when someone is breaking 180 and then it would only be to immobilize the firearm and have a conversation. It is inconceivable that someone would grab a person's loaded sidearm and snatch it.

    I would expect a 50% buttstroke rate on that bit of stupidity. And while the AR is no biggie, the old guy with an M1A might just collapse a cheek with that steel buttplate!

    Really, really unsafe and stupid.

    Wow!
     

    dnsavage

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 7, 2009
    4
    3
    Southern Illinois
    WOW.....that took real balls. When I was in the military, I was often a range officer for my unit. I would not have ever dreamed of taking a live or possibly loaded weapon from one of my own let alone a stranger. That move just lacked common sense
     

    edsinger

    Master
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    6   0   0
    Apr 14, 2009
    2,541
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    NE Indiana
    Holy Sheep **** Batman! I really don't know what to say. When I went to a DNR, the RO asked if I had a handgun and explained the rule to me even though I did not have one....This guy is an idiot.
     

    Rlee

    Sharpshooter
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    2   0   0
    May 14, 2008
    441
    16
    New Castle, IN
    I only read the first 3 pages so I'm unsure what all has been said or done.

    I hope nothing less than this incompetent jackass gets fired! No excuse for this, best for him and fellow gun owners.

    I am really not sure what I would do if someone started to go for my gun. What can I do legally?

    I can't sneak up on my husband for fear of being seriously hurt... it's just reflex for him. (Another reason he never sits with his back to the door in a restaurant.) This guy is SO lucky to be alive right now.

    I too am the same way. And if at all, I repeat at all possible I sit with my back to a wall. I'm fat and don't like being the center of attention, and don't want my company to be a center target.
     
    Last edited:

    cosermann

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    14   0   0
    Aug 15, 2008
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    best for him and fellow gun owners.

    You know, this is a good point.

    Obviously most of us are a bit stunned by this, some a bit irritated (ok, that's an understatent), but the guy needs to be removed from RO work if for no other reason than for his own safety and the safety of others.

    If this isn't done, and something bad happens in the future as a result of this guy's actions, it seems the state has just set themselves up for a big, fat, slamdunk lawsuit.
     

    preachere

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Apr 11, 2009
    76
    6
    Mishawaka
    Alright guys, here's the skinny from the OTHER Range Officer, Ed. I just got off the phone with him and he said that someone came out today and questioned him about the event. He didn't know anything about it so wasn't able to offer them any answers one way or the other.

    I told him what had happened and he immediately said "It wasn't me!" I assured him that I stood up for him here in the forum and he was appreciative of that fact. He said from what the gentleman said to him today, a letter was written to his boss, along with a phone call (same guy?), in Indy and that the boss then issued a note to them. I don't know what the note says and I should have asked, thinking back on it now.

    He said that it isn't against State law to carry openly or concealed on the range, it was range law. This takes us to the statement made earlier that "their range, their rules" which I'm sure would have been followed had he been made aware of it at the time, instead of having his loaded pistol drawn on the firing line.

    The RO's name in question is John. He has been known for at least the last 6 years as a crank. When he is at the range it is run very strictly and very unfriendly. When Ed is there we always invite him out to join us for some hot dogs and soda, which he always does (except for this last shoot a couple weeks ago).

    One last comment. Ed wanted me to admonish everyone to PLEASE DON'T STOP USING THE RANGE! It is a simple matter to call ahead and find out who is working that day or the day you would like to use the range. The number for Kingsbury DNR range is 219-393-1128. This range hosts a "Youth Fun Day at the Range" every year, which is a hunter retention/recruitment event, and the proceeds from the range fees help with this. This years event will be held Sunday, September 13th, and all youths aged 17 and younger are welcome and it's totally free to whoever shows up. They even provide safety glasses, ear plugs, bows, arrows, shotguns, clays, rifles, and all ammo. Even lunch is free and every child receives a really nice T-shirt commemorating the day.

    Regards,
    Eric
     
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