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  • dross

    Grandmaster
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    Jan 27, 2009
    8,699
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    Monument, CO
    That is basically what I said.
    After they had called in our ID's and everything came back :yesway:, they continued to detain us and the officers slowly walked around all of us, checking that state of our weapons. When officer "Abuser" saw that I had my hammer back and unlocked, he questioned me as to why I had it like that and I explained to him that in the training I have been in up to now has proven that memory movements and unlocking your handgun can cause unwanted delay in reaction and I wanted to be in the "ready state" if I needed to use it.
    He then continued to grill me with questions, like "what training?" and "who was your trainer?" and some other questions I don't recall exactly, but then he asked me if there was one in the chamber and I said "yes, don't you have one in yours?"
    He then commanded me to de-cock and remove my magazine and I refused saying "No, sir...I will not"
    That's when he reached for his cuffs and I pretty much knew where it was going from there. I proceeded to ask, "what law have I violated?" and it was not answered but I was told I was being cuffed for officer's safety.:noway:

    Actually, there's an odd consistency. In the same way OCing is somehow more dangerous to officer safety than CCing, carrying an exposed hammer weapon cocked is more dangerous than a cocked weapon with a hidden hammer.

    It makes perfect sense in the weird twisted logic that made him think it was okay to handcuff a citizen for absolutely nothing.
     

    IndyMonkey

    Shooter
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    Jan 15, 2010
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    Actually, there's an odd consistency. In the same way OCing is somehow more dangerous to officer safety than CCing, carrying an exposed hammer weapon cocked is more dangerous than a cocked weapon with a hidden hammer.

    It makes perfect sense in the weird twisted logic that made him think it was okay to handcuff a citizen for absolutely nothing.

    Actually the officer ran into the slightest bit of someone questioning him and that didnt sit well with someone that is probably use to law abiding people being compliant.
     

    Joe Williams

    Shooter
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    Jun 26, 2008
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    I still ask.Why look for trouble?:dunno:


    Since when is obeying the law looking for trouble, and why do you not ask that question of the criminals who actually did break the law? You know, the police officers in this particular incident.
     

    samot

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Dec 9, 2009
    2,057
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    Your mamas house
    ATFC....

    since this was your first forcable restaint !
    Do you feel differently towards LE ?
    Knowing now that at any point in time you can be yanked of everything you have & BOUND ( & for the sake of arguement lets forget the piece in your back pocket that could have caused a real deal)
    Do you "fear" or are you in fear of a PO now?
    This is not meant to be smartassish .
    I have had a couple negative encounters & it deffinetly changed my outlook on things .
    Just wondering how you felt about it all now that youve had a bit to reflect.
     

    Que

    Meekness ≠ Weakness
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 98%
    48   1   0
    Feb 20, 2009
    16,373
    83
    Blacksburg
    Guys, I want to reflect back to one of the purposes of this event, which was supposed to be an education of the masses. Now, in this effort, please tell me how anyone was educated? The only thing I see that happened was a law-abiding citizen handcuffed and illegally detained, while another had his firearm illegally confiscated. Although those are the facts, all those secretaries, office workers, and even the couple at the cookie store probably saw was a bunch of 'crazy' people carrying guns and IMPD doing a great job of protecting their safety. I'm glad the media was not there. I could only imagine what they would report.

    I understand the to-each-his-own factor, and that protest takes on many different faces. I just don't see the lesson conveyed in this, but I'm open to learn if I'm missing something.
     

    Joe Williams

    Shooter
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    Jun 26, 2008
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    Guys, I want to reflect back to one of the purposes of this event, which was supposed to be an education of the masses. Now, in this effort, please tell me how anyone was educated? The only thing I see that happened was a law-abiding citizen handcuffed and illegally detained, while another had his firearm illegally confiscated. Although those are the facts, all those secretaries, office workers, and even the couple at the cookie store probably saw was a bunch of 'crazy' people carrying guns and IMPD doing a great job of protecting their safety. I'm glad the media was not there. I could only imagine what they would report.

    I understand the to-each-his-own factor, and that protest takes on many different faces. I just don't see the lesson conveyed in this, but I'm open to learn if I'm missing something.


    So, would it be accurate to say that you don't feel it should be done again? The government chose to attack and try to intimidate American citizens who were exercising protected Constitutional rights. Do you feel that they should be allowed to succeed in their goal of obliterating our rights via illegal force?
     

    ATF Consumer

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 23, 2008
    4,628
    36
    South Side Indy
    ATFC....

    since this was your first forcable restaint !
    Do you feel differently towards LE ?
    Knowing now that at any point in time you can be yanked of everything you have & BOUND ( & for the sake of arguement lets forget the piece in your back pocket that could have caused a real deal)
    Do you "fear" or are you in fear of a PO now?
    This is not meant to be smartassish .
    I have had a couple negative encounters & it deffinetly changed my outlook on things .
    Just wondering how you felt about it all now that youve had a bit to reflect.


    No, I really haven't changed my view of LEO's in general...I look at it like any other person with any other job.
    No matter what position you hold, there are those that abuse the power they have and without good upper management, that abuse will continue.
    I am a very big fan of the show COPS...have always liked watching it.
    I see how they lie to most everyone they detain. There are certainly plenty of good LEO's...I'm pretty comfortable to say the good definitely outweigh the bad. But, the bad certainly tarnish the reputations of the rest and no matter how much good they do, the bad is what most of us see.
    I suppose some LEO look at citizens the same way...there are certainly good ones out there, but the interactions they have with us is mostly bad and so they come to your attention already in the mode that they are going to be dealing with something bad. It may not be right, but that just how it is.
    No, I do not fear them...actually this experience has made me stronger and makes me want to further press the OC issue and I will try to make as many OC events as I can. I feel I have contributed to every OC event I have participated in and this one was no exception.
    It is just a shame that LEO's don't know the laws in which they are there to protect and uphold.
     

    ATF Consumer

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 23, 2008
    4,628
    36
    South Side Indy
    Guys, I want to reflect back to one of the purposes of this event, which was supposed to be an education of the masses. Now, in this effort, please tell me how anyone was educated? The only thing I see that happened was a law-abiding citizen handcuffed and illegally detained, while another had his firearm illegally confiscated. Although those are the facts, all those secretaries, office workers, and even the couple at the cookie store probably saw was a bunch of 'crazy' people carrying guns and IMPD doing a great job of protecting their safety. I'm glad the media was not there. I could only imagine what they would report.

    I understand the to-each-his-own factor, and that protest takes on many different faces. I just don't see the lesson conveyed in this, but I'm open to learn if I'm missing something.

    Had we not been violated by LEO's, our education would have gone much better, as we had flyers to hand out and show that citizens can peaceably assemble, armed and not cause any problems...the LEO CAUSED the problems.
    The two walks downtown prior to this went off without a single burp.;)
     

    Cru

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Aug 4, 2010
    6,158
    36
    Noblesville, IN
    Guys, I want to reflect back to one of the purposes of this event, which was supposed to be an education of the masses. Now, in this effort, please tell me how anyone was educated? The only thing I see that happened was a law-abiding citizen handcuffed and illegally detained, while another had his firearm illegally confiscated. Although those are the facts, all those secretaries, office workers, and even the couple at the cookie store probably saw was a bunch of 'crazy' people carrying guns and IMPD doing a great job of protecting their safety. I'm glad the media was not there. I could only imagine what they would report.

    I understand the to-each-his-own factor, and that protest takes on many different faces. I just don't see the lesson conveyed in this, but I'm open to learn if I'm missing something.

    I understand where you are coming from, and I would offer this. If the event ENDED immediately after this part of it, I would say no, nobody learned anything. But after the initial "bad start" the people at Dicks BBQ learned something, and were quite friendly about it. There were some bystanders that were watching that learned the participants had their weapons returned because they were LEGALLY carrying them. The HUNDREDS of people around the circle for the colts pep rally saw 6 guys OCing with police walking and driving by with no incident. So I feel that the original goal was accomplished in a small way.

    Of course being the people we are (INGO members, those involved and not) WE will tend to focus on the more dramatic and exciting handcuffing part.
     

    Que

    Meekness ≠ Weakness
    Site Supporter
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    48   1   0
    Feb 20, 2009
    16,373
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    Blacksburg
    So, would it be accurate to say that you don't feel it should be done again? The government chose to attack and try to intimidate American citizens who were exercising protected Constitutional rights. Do you feel that they should be allowed to succeed in their goal of obliterating our rights via illegal force?

    No, you would not be accurate.
     

    Que

    Meekness ≠ Weakness
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 98%
    48   1   0
    Feb 20, 2009
    16,373
    83
    Blacksburg
    I understand where you are coming from, and I would offer this. If the event ENDED immediately after this part of it, I would say no, nobody learned anything. But after the initial "bad start" the people at Dicks BBQ learned something, and were quite friendly about it. There were some bystanders that were watching that learned the participants had their weapons returned because they were LEGALLY carrying them. The HUNDREDS of people around the circle for the colts pep rally saw 6 guys OCing with police walking and driving by with no incident. So I feel that the original goal was accomplished in a small way.

    Of course being the people we are (INGO members, those involved and not) WE will tend to focus on the more dramatic and exciting handcuffing part.

    Thanks, Cru. I understand your reasoning and appreciate your efforts, in this light.
     

    lovemachine

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    Dec 14, 2009
    15,604
    119
    Indiana
    So, would it be accurate to say that you don't feel it should be done again? The government chose to attack and try to intimidate American citizens who were exercising protected Constitutional rights. Do you feel that they should be allowed to succeed in their goal of obliterating our rights via illegal force?


    I don't think Que is saying that. Let's face it, Sheeple are afraid of guns, and afraid of gun owners/carriers. I think,and feel, that to get people on our side is a very, very delicate process.

    I don't think walking around Indy with long guns is going to do this. I'm all for OCing, I prefer CC, but I do OC when it's necessary.

    I just think a different approach could have been better.
     

    Joe Williams

    Shooter
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    0   0   0
    Jun 26, 2008
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    I don't think Que is saying that. Let's face it, Sheeple are afraid of guns, and afraid of gun owners/carriers. I think,and feel, that to get people on our side is a very, very delicate process.

    I don't think walking around Indy with long guns is going to do this. I'm all for OCing, I prefer CC, but I do OC when it's necessary.

    I just think a different approach could have been better.


    What would be your different approach? People were sitting there, having lunch, causing no trouble, minding their business and obeying the law when they were accosted by government agents who DID break the law.

    What different approach would work if peacably chowing down doesn't? We can either keep OC'ing, go about our daily lives, obey the law, and confront government agents who violate the law, or we can stop OC'ing and surrender our rights like cowards. If there is another approach, I'd be glad to hear it.
     

    HamsterStyle

    Master
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    33   0   0
    Jul 27, 2010
    2,387
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    Carthage
    I'm glad it all ended with no arrests or anything. That said, I'm really glad I bought ATFC's G27 last week or I would have had to pay a premium for it this week. Lol
     

    IndyMonkey

    Shooter
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    0   0   0
    Jan 15, 2010
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    What would be your different approach? People were sitting there, having lunch, causing no trouble, minding their business and obeying the law when they were accosted by government agents who DID break the law.

    What different approach would work if peacably chowing down doesn't? We can either keep OC'ing, go about our daily lives, obey the law, and confront government agents who violate the law, or we can stop OC'ing and surrender our rights like cowards. If there is another approach, I'd be glad to hear it.

    We were standing in the court yard, not eating.

    There was a sheriff deputy that came by right when I got there that handled the situation on how it should of been. He approached us, asked us what we were doing. Told us to have a great day and left.(short version)
     

    lovemachine

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    Dec 14, 2009
    15,604
    119
    Indiana
    What would be your different approach? People were sitting there, having lunch, causing no trouble, minding their business and obeying the law when they were accosted by government agents who DID break the law.

    What different approach would work if peacably chowing down doesn't? We can either keep OC'ing, go about our daily lives, obey the law, and confront government agents who violate the law, or we can stop OC'ing and surrender our rights like cowards. If there is another approach, I'd be glad to hear it.



    Perhaps not bring the long guns? Like Frank said, if the M5 wasn't there,'there may not have been any problems.

    I'm all for OCing and carrying long guns. I wish we lived in a world where you could do it without getting strange looks. But it's not like that. People are scared to death of guns.

    I think if you are going to hang their view, you shouldn't scare them. Ease into it. Set up a booth, a conference,'something downtown, and have a demonstration. Teach people who are interested.
    Pass out flyers. Talk to them. And OC while doing it. But don't frighten them.'you'll just get MWAG calls.
     
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