Indianapolis Getting worse.......

[J D]

At that rate you could cover Marion Co with ~30 officers per shift, three shifts, for 90 total officers...

Or go to 10-hour days, 8 active +2 for paperwork, 4 days on, 3 days off, so 90 divided by 4/7ths = 158 officers.

There are 1700 officers now, so I don't understand the problem.

About IPD

(/purple)

Somewhat simplistic but I see your logic. On any given day you need to factor in 1-3 officers off injured or on light duty. Seasonally 1-2 off sick. Vacations and bonus days 4-5 per shift. Court can take 20-30 percent of a shift for the last couple hours of day shift and the first couple hours of middle shift. Officers off the street after officer involved shootings, under investigation or suspension. 2-3 per shift for trainings or schools. Then there are details, monon trail staffed daily from districts, various other details and events. It all adds up quickly.

Then staff the district and core investigation units, traffic branch, admin, support, and training units.

The last numbers I saw were actually in the mid 1500's including the Park Rangers.

 

[churchmouse]

....and their vote counts just as much as yours and we're adding more people to the state all the time.

They are breeding like fly's with another check with every baby. We know the answer here.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Get badges and uniforms for Kirk Freeman & rhino and let them clean house in Marion County.

I don't want a uniform but I do want to wear my badge around my neck.

I will say things like "our cover is blown" and "dammit, rhino, you're off the case!"

Oh, yeah, there will be lots of talking to IUPUI and Butler co-eds.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I don't want a uniform but I do want to wear my badge around my neck.

I will say things like "our cover is blown" and "dammit, rhino, you're off the case!"

Oh, yeah, there will be lots of talking to IUPUI and Butler co-eds.

"Book 'em, rhino!" has a familiar ring to it.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Hi, I'm KellyinAvon, among other things I'm a Management Analyst (that's pretty much a Statistician with people-skills). I've spent a significant portion of my adult life figuring out the right number of folks it takes to do a specific job or group of jobs in an organization.


Easy: A specific workload must be accomplished. The tasks are measureable; make an equation to determine manning requirements based on current of forecasted workload.


Hard: A Police Department's manning. It's based on a level of service and what the taxpayers can afford. Criminals rarely if ever provide data for the crimes they are going to commit over the next 1-5 years. Trade-offs such as equipment/vehicle replacement cuts into being able to put officers on the street. It sucks, but that's reality.


This isn't different from the military. You've got X amount of mission and Y amount of folks to do it. What you plan for is never what you end up doing. It is easier than figuring out how many cops you need. If Indianapolis, Milwaukee and Louisville were Air Force bases each with 72 F-16s, they would need the same manning to support/maintain/fly the aircraft. How many cops does it take to reduce crime to an acceptable level? What is acceptable? Is Indy's violent crime rate less than some peer cities with larger Police Forces?


Many years ago I was one of those lucky people who reviewed new missions/equipment/manning/etc. for a large part of the Air Force. We had a saying, "That's nice, how ya gonna pay for it?" Manning is not 1 year worth of bucks, you pay forever. What are you doing now that you don't need to do? What did you start doing when you were fat and happy (mission creep) that has nothing to do with "Serve and Protect"?

Ok, fire away!

 

[phylodog]

What are you doing now that you don't need to do? What did you start doing when you were fat and happy (mission creep) that has nothing to do with "Serve and Protect"?

Oh, if you only knew. The problem is that this topic jumps into politics with both feet. No one wants to allow a reduction in services, it's political suicide. No one wants to raise taxes to hire the needed officers, again political suicide. What's a fella to do? Keep squeezing the turnip.

 

[Popeye81]

It's NOT a police problem,it's not a jail problem, it's a **** POOR PARENTING PROBLEM.Every time you see these kids dead on the news there is NEVER a FATHER around screaming "MY BABY DIDN'T DO NUTHIN". It's always the mothers. Why? Because since the 1960's the black family has been DESTROYED by DEMOCRAT politics and "social programs". We are now close to 4 generations into the destruction of the nuclear family in the black community.Liberal,tree hugger do-gooder types are always talking about saving this nearly extinct animal or re-introdcing that animal to the wild again...If they wanna help they need to be trying to RE-INTRODUCE FATHER'S INTO THE FAMILY STRUCTURE. If these kids had mother's AND father's around in a loving environment on a DAILY BASIS, not just on Tuesday,Thursday and every other weekend then none of these horrible acts of violence would even be going on.

 

[tatertot]

It's NOT a police problem,it's not a jail problem, it's a **** POOR PARENTING PROBLEM.Every time you see these kids dead on the news there is NEVER a FATHER around screaming "MY BABY DIDN'T DO NUTHIN". It's always the mothers. Why? Because since the 1960's the black family has been DESTROYED by DEMOCRAT politics and "social programs". We are now close to 4 generations into the destruction of the nuclear family in the black community.Liberal,tree hugger do-gooder types are always talking about saving this nearly extinct animal or re-introdcing that animal to the wild again...If they wanna help they need to be trying to RE-INTRODUCE FATHER'S INTO THE FAMILY STRUCTURE. If these kids had mother's AND father's around in a loving environment on a DAILY BASIS, not just on Tuesday,Thursday and every other weekend then none of these horrible acts of violence would even be going on.

While I tend to agree with you about having both parents in the home, you are typically dealing with a culture where it is "cool" to have multiple "baby mamas". What you seem to be talking about is an entire cultural shift. I would love for that to happen, but I don't think it is possible at this point.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

+

+

=

Easily the best post yet on "New INGO"

 

[churchmouse]

Oh, if you only knew. The problem is that this topic jumps into politics with both feet. No one wants to allow a reduction in services, it's political suicide. No one wants to raise taxes to hire the needed officers, again political suicide. What's a fella to do? Keep squeezing the turnip.

Taxes always go up but they spend the money on buying votes from blocks of voters. I would not have a lot of issues with spending the taxes on LEO if done properly and not on hiring "Middle management" or more administrators. Put feet on the streets in the areas that need it. When the cock roaches flee to new areas follow them. Prosecute and imprison those that do all the things we are speaking of.

Wow, what a simple solution.

Drug test welfare recipients. Limit family size if they are full time program recipients. They will not drop 5 if big brother is only sending out checks for 2. This is not limited to any one culture....it is across the board. White/black/Hispanic/red/green or blue. Put the brakes on this run away train.

Damn, again. Another simple solution to a bad situation.

Yeah, I know.....never happen but I can dream right.

 

[John Titor]

We're only 685 officers short of the national average here in Indy. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with it.

I think you're correct ... murder has to do with character not the number of government workers on the payroll .

 

[phylodog]

It's strange how the slightest bit of hunting pressure changes the behavior of the hunted. Without that hunting pressure the critters are free to do what they wish.

You can treat it as a simple issue, claim that the polcie can't prevent murder and convince yourself that fewer cops on the street has nothing to do with it. That oversimplification comes at a cost. Lots and lots of money has been spent in the last 20 years improving the city of Indianapolis. Money spent in an attempt to make Indianapolis a worthwhile destination to bring things like the Superbowl (and more importantly the money) here. Be a shame to see it all wasted due to crime statistics that keep everyone but the Hell's Angels from bringing their conventions or events to town. I was born and raised here and for the most part I like Indy. I have no desire to see it become the next Detroit.

 

[John Titor]

So money and a more police trump character . Ok I don't know much . Doesn't seem like it's worked so far . You like your town that's cool .
I think Indy is neat . Was nicer in the 80's & 90's . But it does appear that it's going the way of Detroit and it's not all Indy's fault . This is a country wide problem with many facets . I use to live on the east side ... the house is still standing on Shadeland at about the 3600 block .
My wife and I go through the east side sometimes and remember when that part of town was prosperous . Of course that was in the 70's . Not now . It saddens us to remember what the east side and Indy as a whole use to be .
Indy is already Detriot in the making and more cops can't stop that .

 

[churchmouse]

So money and a more police trump character . Ok I don't know much . Doesn't seem like it's worked so far . You like your town that's cool .
I think Indy is neat . Was nicer in the 80's & 90's . But it does appear that it's going the way of Detroit and it's not all Indy's fault . This is a country wide problem with many facets . I use to live on the east side ... the house is still standing on Shadeland at about the 3600 block .
My wife and I go through the east side sometimes and remember when that part of town was prosperous . Of course that was in the 70's . Not now . It saddens us to remember what the east side and Indy as a whole use to be .
Indy is already Detriot in the making and more cops can't stop that .

I disagree that more police will not at least put a damper on this issue. JMHO. The thugs tend to scatter when they see the POPO

Yes....the real issue is deeper than just police on the street but that is another problem we can do nothing about. It is sub culture that has been allowed to grow and fester by politicians who need issues to stay in office and also those same people guarding a voter block. It is really not that simple but again, yes it is.

 

[codydugger]

To be quite honest, putting better teachers in the schools won't help much when the kids don't want to learn. In todays society, most "inner city youth" look up to the big name rappers and think that is the lifestyle they want. they think its cool to skip school and go on crime sprees, because it earns them "street credit". I think if all these "thugs" want to go out shooting each other, put them on a plane and send thier asses to Iraq and Afganistan and let them do all the shooting they want to do and bring our troops home.

 

[churchmouse]

To be quite honest, putting better teachers in the schools won't help much when the kids don't want to learn. In todays society, most "inner city youth" look up to the big name rappers and think that is the lifestyle they want. they think its cool to skip school and go on crime sprees, because it earns them "street credit". I think if all these "thugs" want to go out shooting each other, put them on a plane and send thier asses to Iraq and Afganistan and let them do all the shooting they want to do and bring our troops home.

When faced with someone that will shoot back a thug will drive by and shoot up your family.
Cowards of the highest order.

 

[codydugger]

I agree with you churchmouse. thats why we need to quit trying to rehabilitate the idiots and just start putting a bullet in the forehead. Use a few to prove a point and the others will have a change of heart. If they don't, just keep putting bullets to foreheads.

 

[churchmouse]

I agree with you churchmouse. thats why we need to quit trying to rehabilitate the idiots and just start putting a bullet in the forehead. Use a few to prove a point and the others will have a change of heart. If they don't, just keep putting bullets to foreheads.

You know I agree with you at some level but the woman and kids will take issue with this process....until the loose some family to these idiots.

No, they will not be rehabilitated as their chosen lifestyle is OK in their minds. They see it as a right to act as they see fit. We are seen as the problem as we (socially moral folks) want them to get jobs, marry the baby momma and walk the straight and narrow path.
1st...a job, really. Doing what.
2nd...marry the baby momma (or momma's) hell man, they would loose the check. That aint fair.
3rd...What path. I do and go as "I" please.

 

[codydugger]

thats when the women and children start learning from the deadbeat dads that are out gangbanging, mort often then not the kids grow up acting just like their parents, so if said parents care enough about their kids, they would start trying to change their ways. I dont have sympathy for anyone that wants to live a lifestyle that gets them killed before they are 25. It is truley sad that most of MY generation doesn't know what a job is, and they don't know how to make an honest living.

 

[drillsgt]

It's strange how the slightest bit of hunting pressure changes the behavior of the hunted. Without that hunting pressure the critters are free to do what they wish.

You can treat it as a simple issue, claim that the polcie can't prevent murder and convince yourself that fewer cops on the street has nothing to do with it. That oversimplification comes at a cost. Lots and lots of money has been spent in the last 20 years improving the city of Indianapolis. Money spent in an attempt to make Indianapolis a worthwhile destination to bring things like the Superbowl (and more importantly the money) here. Be a shame to see it all wasted due to crime statistics that keep everyone but the Hell's Angels from bringing their conventions or events to town. I was born and raised here and for the most part I like Indy. I have no desire to see it become the next Detroit.

It's a fine line but if I had to choose I would take less than is necessary rather than more. If you have an over abundance you get what we have here in Greenfield. Between the HCSD in town and the GPD we have way more LE for a town this size than we need. What you get is they have nothing to do so everything becomes an emergency and you can't go ten feet without speed traps. I don't speed but you can tell they don't have anything worthwhile to do.