Indianapolis Getting worse.......

[Liberty1911]

I have some female coworkers that while they are not BIGGER than me, they have a command presence and look sharp.

That doesn't really answer the question though. Regardless of a female officer's "command presence", wouldn't they still create a perception of being an easier target than a male officer with a "command presence"?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

That doesn't really answer the question though. Regardless of a female officer's "command presence", wouldn't they still create a perception of being an easier target than a male officer with a "command presence"?

As with the military, that horse is already out of the barn and the appropriate agencies and personnel just have to deal with the consequences. Some women will be able to cope; others won't.

 

[Enthusiast]

Ohhh, I don't know***,,

In the big scheme of things, it might be an unfortunate adjustment. Many are acts of retaliation. Best to cause nobody no harm in your daily ventures!

 

[Denny347]

That doesn't really answer the question though. Regardless of a female officer's "command presence", wouldn't they still create a perception of being an easier target than a male officer with a "command presence"?

That is a real problem that is brought up during their combatives training during the academy but it is not isolated to just female officers. We have lots of male officers that are quite small, unassuming, etc.

 

[Liberty1911]

That is a real problem that is brought up during their combatives training during the academy but it is not isolated to just female officers. We have lots of male officers that are quite small, unassuming, etc.

Ok, so then, aren't there standards that should be met to weed out the unqualified females and effeminate males? I'm betting that women have lower standards to meet though, than the men.

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

Oh, don't get me started about beards and goatees in uniform. I HATE them. They look like crap...real crap. Having the look is half the battle. You deal with dirtbutts while looking professional, look halfway in shape, and have some sort of professional attitude and your are much less likely to have a resistor. Fewer resistors = less chances to get hurt.

I must have my class C (BDU) tailored. They seem to assume that wide shoulder also means big gut. Most of the guys do not spend the extra $20 or so to have them tailored so they walking around looking like a soup sandwich. It is frustrating. A tailored BDU uniform goes a LONG way to making the uniform professional and just slightly less than the class B (traditional polyester). I brush polish my boots, after years of spit shining them I stopped after I got more worried about the shine then the bad guys I was chasing. Brush shine still looks nice. I buy the quality boots...Danner Recons. My feet thank me in the rain and the winter. What great boots, look good and they take care of my feet. Worth every penny.

Absolutely. You can be squared away with all the shine and creases but if you are sporting a beard, goatee, or haven't shaved in two days it ruins any professional image IMO.

I went to Bloomington a week ago and stopped at a Speedway that had two BPD officers inside talking around the coffee at 4am. Both of them were sporting beards and I kept suppressing a laugh every time I thought about it. I couldn't take them seriously. Now maybe things would've been different had they had their boot on my neck...

 

[Birds Away]

That is a real problem that is brought up during their combatives training during the academy but it is not isolated to just female officers. We have lots of male officers that are quite small, unassuming, etc.

We had the same problems with flight deck personnel on carriers. What we learned, or relearned, is that you have to judge people individually. Some of the females on the flight deck could haul around all sorts of gear with no problem. Some of the smaller guys and guys with smaller "want to", not so much.

 

[cobber]

That is a real problem that is brought up during their combatives training during the academy but it is not isolated to just female officers. We have lots of male officers that are quite small, unassuming, etc.

Ok, so then, aren't there standards that should be met to weed out the unqualified females and effeminate males? I'm betting that women have lower standards to meet though, than the men.

Small hardly means effeminate. Think Napoleon for instance... I'm guessing he had a commanding presence, whatever his stature.

 

[MPH]

That doesn't really answer the question though. Regardless of a female officer's "command presence", wouldn't they still create a perception of being an easier target than a male officer with a "command presence"?

Interestingly enough, some convicts have told correctional and police officers that they would much rather initiate force against a male officer versus a female officer, their logic being that a size difference between an offender and officer would give a smaller female officer a deadly force option that wouldn't be readily explainable by a male to a grand jury. The size difference is also applicable to a smaller male officer, but most females are smaller than males, in keeping with your question.

 

[Denny347]

Ok, so then, aren't there standards that should be met to weed out the unqualified females and effeminate males? I'm betting that women have lower standards to meet though, than the men.

Nope, State PT standards are the same...pathetically easy.
See llink

ILEA: Physical Fitness Standards

 

[Smokepole]

Only problem with the recent string of shootings is (and I may be wrong) that no one on the news seems to be pointing to the gangs.They make it seem as though random people are getting shot for no reason at all, just wrong place wrong time.

The main reason that the gang angle isn't being reported is that the gangs are mostly black youth. And we certainly can't report that black gangs are responsible for the lions share of the homicides. That would be racist and CERTAINLY wouldn't be PC (see my sig.). So we definitely cannot report these facts. Most of the time when news outlets report that "youths" are committing crimes it is black youths that they are talking about (they usually don't have a problem identifying white offenders). Just like they won't call terrorists terrorists anymore.

I was reading an article in TIME today at the Dr.'s office about Rahm Emmanuel's term as Chicago Mayor and it talked about the murders in Chicago and actually cited the statistic that 80%+ of the murders were black on black crimes. I couldn't believe that they actually reported that fact. But it was buried in the article.

When the country decides to get it's collective PC head out of it's collective PC ass maybe we can actually get down to effectively addressing and fixing some of our problems. But until then we are just spitting in the PC wind.

 

[churchmouse]

The main reason that the gang angle isn't being reported is that the gangs are mostly black youth. And we certainly can't report that black gangs are responsible for the lions share of the homicides. That would be racist and CERTAINLY wouldn't be PC (see my sig.). So we definitely cannot report these facts. Most of the time when news outlets report that "youths" are committing crimes it is black youths that they are talking about (they usually don't have a problem identifying white offenders). Just like they won't call terrorists terrorists anymore.

I was reading an article in TIME today at the Dr.'s office about Rahm Emmanuel's term as Chicago Mayor and it talked about the murders in Chicago and actually cited the statistic that 80%+ of the murders were black on black crimes. I couldn't believe that they actually reported that fact. But it was buried in the article.

When the country decides to get it's collective PC head out of it's collective PC ass maybe we can actually get down to effectively addressing and fixing some of our problems. But until then we are just spitting in the PC wind.

Yup....+1

I am never on high alert when working in a mainly white area. There are some rough white "Hoods" but none are all white areas anymore with the mixing in of Hispanics (white Hispanics..)
and blacks.
On the other hand when we are at 46th & college or 2500 N. Sherman or 21st & central......do I need to continue??

Racist, no. Realist, absolutely.

 

[Denny347]

Yup....+1

I am never on high alert when working in a mainly white area. There are some rough white "Hoods" but none are all white areas anymore with the mixing in of Hispanics (white Hispanics..)
and blacks.
On the other hand when we are at 46th & college or 2500 N. Sherman or 21st & central......do I need to continue??

Racist, no. Realist, absolutely.

Ha, you must not frequent the Swamp often then...near east side. It's a mix and not friendly. However, there are neighborhood efforts to reverse the crime trend in the area.

 

[churchmouse]

Ha, you must not frequent the Swamp often then...near east side. It's a mix and not friendly. However, there are neighborhood efforts to reverse the crime trend in the area.

[/QUOT
I get in there on occasion and actually my spidy sense is not on high alert. Seldom if ever approached.
Now, at the other areas I mention it is a constant bother from the local Zombies wanting this or that and selling everything from you know what to, well, use your imagination. Also the young thugs looking to share their anxiety's with you (me) so spidy sense is always on high.

 

[Stickfight]

On the other hand when we are at 46th & college or 2500 N. Sherman or 21st & central......do I need to continue??

What is going on around 21st & Central? Asking because I don't read comic books and don't know what 'spidey sense' relates to in real life, though I rode my TT bike through that area a couple of times this morning testing out some mechanical fixes and I want to stay safe.

But for those of you who believe that your uniforms and your appearance affect the public's reaction to you, do you think this is related to a perception of professionalism or is it a reaction to the symbolism of a police uniform? Along the lines of what Malcolm Young wrote about in his contribution to Appearance and Power. (I looked for a link to just his piece "Dressed to commune, dressed to kill : changing police imagery in England and Wales" but couldn't find it...one of the few decent pieces in the book) I'm [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]wondering about how much is cause and how much is effect in the drift of police uniforms looking more like military ones, and the seeming escalation in violent confrontations tbetween police and the public.[/FONT]

 

[churchmouse]

What is going on around 21st & Central? Asking because I don't read comic books and don't know what 'spidey sense' relates to in real life, though I rode my TT bike through that area a couple of times this morning testing out some mechanical fixes and I want to stay safe.

But for those of you who believe that your uniforms and your appearance affect the public's reaction to you, do you think this is related to a perception of professionalism or is it a reaction to the symbolism of a police uniform? Along the lines of what Malcolm Young wrote about in his contribution to Appearance and Power. (I looked for a link to just his piece "Dressed to commune, dressed to kill : changing police imagery in England and Wales" but couldn't find it...one of the few decent pieces in the book) I'm wondering about how much is cause and how much is effect in the drift of police uniforms looking more like military ones, and the seeming escalation in violent confrontations tbetween police and the public.

I think the B&B liquor store is on that corner. Not bad during daylight hours. Zombies and vampires at night.

You have no idea what "Spidy" sense is...really. Ask your friendly neighbor hood spider man.

That SA sense you get when things are a bit tense.

 

[cobber]

The main reason that the gang angle isn't being reported is that the gangs are mostly black youth. And we certainly can't report that black gangs are responsible for the lions share of the homicides. That would be racist and CERTAINLY wouldn't be PC (see my sig.). So we definitely cannot report these facts. Most of the time when news outlets report that "youths" are committing crimes it is black youths that they are talking about (they usually don't have a problem identifying white offenders). Just like they won't call terrorists terrorists anymore.

I was reading an article in TIME today at the Dr.'s office about Rahm Emmanuel's term as Chicago Mayor and it talked about the murders in Chicago and actually cited the statistic that 80%+ of the murders were black on black crimes. I couldn't believe that they actually reported that fact. But it was buried in the article.

When the country decides to get it's collective PC head out of it's collective PC ass maybe we can actually get down to effectively addressing and fixing some of our problems. But until then we are just spitting in the PC wind.

The universities and the media have fostered a climate hostile to free inquiry, leading to the national knee-jerk reflex where any mention of race (aside from "white") is deemed racist, leading to resignation for the speaker and an apology to all those "offended" (usually holier-than-thou white liberals).

The problem with expecting change is that PC empowers a group of whiny academics and activists to flex muscle far out of proportion to any rational argument they might put forward in support of their specious beliefs.

 

[Stickfight]

Ah ok. While riding downtown I've have not gotten the feeling that I was in a bad neighborhood until I was east of the Monon. Boarded up / nearly condemned houses dominate a lot of streets over there. But I'm not involved in the drug trade so I don't worry much regardless of where I go.

That liquor store is at 22nd, along with a couple of dollar stores. I don't think I have been through there at night but there are usually people standing around outside the stores during the day.

 

[Stickfight]

The universities and the media have fostered a climate hostile to free inquiry, leading to the national knee-jerk reflex where any mention of race (aside from "white") is deemed racist, leading to resignation for the speaker and an apology to all those "offended" (usually holier-than-thou white liberals).

I dont find that to be the case at all, though I don't really pay much attention to the short cycle media (ie - newspapers, most TV, talk radio, etc). Randall Kennedy's Race, Crime, and the Law is one of the more thoughtful looks at both sides of that issue and he is still a professor at Harvard. David Kennedy is an academic, and he has and still does deal squarely with race. His High Point thing worked pretty darn well and if it has been criticized as being racist I don't know of anyone taking that seriously.

If you mean that efforts to use simple correlation between crime and race to direct policy have been met with opposition, they have and they should. "Blacks commit more crime so we should police blacks more" has been given a good long hard try and gotten nowhere.