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Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change
- Thread starter HOLY LAND
- Start date
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I call B.S. on a one oz. of lead is going to go farther than a 200gr rifle bullet before it hits the ground. That is shooting taking level aim at 3', like off a bench. Now I have shot both off a bench and from what I have seen the slug falls quickly. Well it will at my range any way. As far as a slug holding together better than a bullet. That would depend on the slug and bullet we are talking about. The 12 gage slugs I have pulled out of a deer are mangled. 358 bullets that I have recovered are not mangled any where near what the slugs were. The slugs were made of pure lead and the bullets have a bonded coper jacket over a lead core. Who is trying to bull who? This may try and make a shot gun look bad but any one that has worked with a 12 gage slug knows that was bull.
Thank you! My very first thought when reading what he posted about various rifle rounds was how much farther those rounds would carry in the event that they missed their target. We have enough concerns with unsafe shooting near our home that we don't need all of the people hunting the perimeter of our property shooting loads that are going to be traveling even closer to our home.
Edited to add: I realized after typing this post that this is an older thread with new activity. I have read through all of the posts for the most part and would be most concerned with areas such as ours where there are many hunters hunting in a small area. Our 90 acres is surrounded by parcels that average 5 acres in size and each of those 5 acre parcels has at least two to three hunters hunting deer with stands that all face our property. I really do not want to think about what it would be like if they were all using rifles that can send a bullet all the way to my house with ease. I'd be afraid to walk out the door!
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Copy/snip
"So how is it that a pistol is safer than a rifle in the same caliber?"
Safer in shot selection. HP handguns (usually equipped with extended eye relief scopes) aren't as easy to peel off shots on yonder moving deer from the pickup.
Something to think about: Some rounds may travel farther after missing the target, but how far is that target when they miss? And my concern with using HP rifles................what lies beyond that?
And what is so damn hard about buying a .357 or .44 mag rifle, or maybe making the .357 into a Maximum, or shortening a .35 Rem or .45-70 to legal length? One need not buy some custom rifle and wildcat round to take advantage of the current rifle allowance.
"So how is it that a pistol is safer than a rifle in the same caliber?"
Safer in shot selection. HP handguns (usually equipped with extended eye relief scopes) aren't as easy to peel off shots on yonder moving deer from the pickup.
Something to think about: Some rounds may travel farther after missing the target, but how far is that target when they miss? And my concern with using HP rifles................what lies beyond that?
And what is so damn hard about buying a .357 or .44 mag rifle, or maybe making the .357 into a Maximum, or shortening a .35 Rem or .45-70 to legal length? One need not buy some custom rifle and wildcat round to take advantage of the current rifle allowance.
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FWIW my 200 gr .35 cal Hornady came apart on the doe I shot at 55 yards. Never exited.
My 236 Norma JHP .44 clacked through the timber after blasting through.
Have had shotgun slugs, foster and BRI style, zing through deer and plow dirt. Those handful of WW fosters and BRIs that stayed in the deer, were intact.
Now the Impact brand of fosters, those have come apart pretty bad on the 25 and 50 yarders I've seen.
Most of my shotgun slugs make nice holes in, and out.
MZ roundball and conicals, same thing. Sabots with 240gr JHP.............little hole in and out.
Maybe longer D keeps them intact, but I've blasted a couple dozen inside 75 yards and it's a pretty clean gig.
Shotguns, with fosters, inside of 75 yards I think to be a mean setup, makes a nice big hole for red to spill out. Only issue is that sometimes when bone is hit fosters will deform enough to range through off their intended line. Did not have that with BRI style long axis sabot slugs (WW Hi Impact Supremes). I busted an 8 at 12 ft, from the ground, and hit onside shoulder, found the slug under the fur on opp side ham. Slug was in 1 pc. All other HI Supreme hits were in and out, deer down within steps of where hit. Even middle lung shots folded 'em. Best slug I ever tried (and yeah I cried when they discontinued them).
My 236 Norma JHP .44 clacked through the timber after blasting through.
Have had shotgun slugs, foster and BRI style, zing through deer and plow dirt. Those handful of WW fosters and BRIs that stayed in the deer, were intact.
Now the Impact brand of fosters, those have come apart pretty bad on the 25 and 50 yarders I've seen.
Most of my shotgun slugs make nice holes in, and out.
MZ roundball and conicals, same thing. Sabots with 240gr JHP.............little hole in and out.
Maybe longer D keeps them intact, but I've blasted a couple dozen inside 75 yards and it's a pretty clean gig.
Shotguns, with fosters, inside of 75 yards I think to be a mean setup, makes a nice big hole for red to spill out. Only issue is that sometimes when bone is hit fosters will deform enough to range through off their intended line. Did not have that with BRI style long axis sabot slugs (WW Hi Impact Supremes). I busted an 8 at 12 ft, from the ground, and hit onside shoulder, found the slug under the fur on opp side ham. Slug was in 1 pc. All other HI Supreme hits were in and out, deer down within steps of where hit. Even middle lung shots folded 'em. Best slug I ever tried (and yeah I cried when they discontinued them).
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It'll be interesting to see what the kill data is for this year.
Wonder if archery will have a higher take, and how much of that is due to X bow usage.
Also wonder about rifle vs shotgun.
Then there's EHD and how bad certain areas got hit.
The late season firearm is for counties with a 4 or more bonus number.................wonder what the harvest breakdown will be in those?
More hunters, increased effectiveness and range (if opening rifle regs)..............could really hammer back the deer population.
If they opened the rifle regs up I bet they'd have to make other changes (maybe a 1 week gun season instead of 2, and or make it post rut).
Wonder if archery will have a higher take, and how much of that is due to X bow usage.
Also wonder about rifle vs shotgun.
Then there's EHD and how bad certain areas got hit.
The late season firearm is for counties with a 4 or more bonus number.................wonder what the harvest breakdown will be in those?
More hunters, increased effectiveness and range (if opening rifle regs)..............could really hammer back the deer population.
If they opened the rifle regs up I bet they'd have to make other changes (maybe a 1 week gun season instead of 2, and or make it post rut).
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Hookeye, I am unable to tell if you really like firearms or not. It seems like you want more restrictions to be put in place and even to cut down hunting season for hunters. I am at a lose honestly.
You assume and many others people writing in the thread that I have seen that people will get FMJ bullets using them for hunting and that hunters with 30 caliber rifles will just neglect the laws. I am not about assuming the worst in people and I would not knock people's genetics speaking of their parents and how their children are stupid and dump implying they could not learn common sense knowledge or even learn about firearms and safe functioning of them. We need to support new comers helping them to grow and develop in the sport and not hold them back. We should never judge people's future actions of what they may or may not do if we do then we are saying you are guilty before proven innocent. We are not that kind of country or people. We are always innocent until proven guilty. If your not able to base something on solid facts please do not put people down saying they are stupid or want to break the laws. We can always teach responsibility we just need to work together.
Using 30 caliber rifles would be a wonderful thing for Indiana Hunters and Out of state hunters. They have all kinds of ammunition avaliable that is safe to use like the Barnes Bullets how they open up and dump a huge chunk of their energy into the Deer or tree if they miss.
So please lets respect everyone and not claim that anyone is stupid or unable to learn the laws and proper usage of firearms.
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Petition Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change
Indiana Hunting Regulations can be frustrating at times when you want to go hunting with a more common rifle caliber. I want to have the law updated so we can use a broader range of calibers.
Hunting white tail deer all 30 caliber rifles should be legalized in Indiana. These modern 30 caliber cartridges are used nationwide year round for hunting, target practice and other activities. People are limited on how they are able to hunt with the way the law is now; we are not able to used our Grandpa’s old 3030 rifle or any other modern rifle because of the current law. 30 caliber riffles are used in a lot of states for hunting deer and I believe Indiana should allow us to have the same option. I feel it’s a shame that many people who move to Indiana and have more common caliber rifles are forbidden to use them for hunting and can only find themselves with the choice of shots guns or the limited selection listed in the DNR book.
It can cost more than most people have to build a gun around the offered legal calibers. One gentleman said, “My dad has hunted with a shotgun his whole life, and the recoil is getting painful in his older age. I would love to let him borrow my rifle that has much less recoil, because I am not able to afford to buy him a new one that happens to fit inside Indiana’s narrow caliber rules”. Indiana ground isn’t flat like a lot of people say, we have hills which would be backstops for the bullets and people in tree stands don’t fire up in the air and their backstop is the ground. Hunters on the ground position themselves near a deer trail so that they can find a deer in a controlled space so when they shoot they have a backstop so the bullet will be limited on travel and won’t hit anyone. As far as the arguments against using modern cartridges, any bullet is lethal. If a hunter is shooting without being certain they have an effective backstop then they are willing to risk of someone's life for a deer. Hunter education should cover these safety issues.
My argument for legalizing modern rifle calibers would be:
*Greater accuracy so you will have a cleaner kill. The animal will suffer less, and you will have less wounded deers running away only to have the hunter not retrieve the injured deer and shoot another. The hunter would have more control of his shot placement limiting damage to the deer’s vital organs.
*More people own the more common calibers, so you may have more people take up an interest in hunting, selling more licenses and rifles in Indiana increasing Indiana's revenue.
*Hunters from out of state can hunt here since the rifle's they already own can be used also increasing Indiana's revenue by selling the higher priced out of state licenses.
*Most modern rifle calibers have lower recoil than a shotgun, allowing older hunters to hunt longer. It may also reduce injuries of people falling out of stands due to the heavier recoil knocking them off balance in a tree stand.
Please sign my petition. If you have any suggestions please feel free to comment in the forum’s thread. Thank you.
Petition Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change
You assume and many others people writing in the thread that I have seen that people will get FMJ bullets using them for hunting and that hunters with 30 caliber rifles will just neglect the laws. I am not about assuming the worst in people and I would not knock people's genetics speaking of their parents and how their children are stupid and dump implying they could not learn common sense knowledge or even learn about firearms and safe functioning of them. We need to support new comers helping them to grow and develop in the sport and not hold them back. We should never judge people's future actions of what they may or may not do if we do then we are saying you are guilty before proven innocent. We are not that kind of country or people. We are always innocent until proven guilty. If your not able to base something on solid facts please do not put people down saying they are stupid or want to break the laws. We can always teach responsibility we just need to work together.
Using 30 caliber rifles would be a wonderful thing for Indiana Hunters and Out of state hunters. They have all kinds of ammunition avaliable that is safe to use like the Barnes Bullets how they open up and dump a huge chunk of their energy into the Deer or tree if they miss.
So please lets respect everyone and not claim that anyone is stupid or unable to learn the laws and proper usage of firearms.
-------
Petition Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change
Indiana Hunting Regulations can be frustrating at times when you want to go hunting with a more common rifle caliber. I want to have the law updated so we can use a broader range of calibers.
Hunting white tail deer all 30 caliber rifles should be legalized in Indiana. These modern 30 caliber cartridges are used nationwide year round for hunting, target practice and other activities. People are limited on how they are able to hunt with the way the law is now; we are not able to used our Grandpa’s old 3030 rifle or any other modern rifle because of the current law. 30 caliber riffles are used in a lot of states for hunting deer and I believe Indiana should allow us to have the same option. I feel it’s a shame that many people who move to Indiana and have more common caliber rifles are forbidden to use them for hunting and can only find themselves with the choice of shots guns or the limited selection listed in the DNR book.
It can cost more than most people have to build a gun around the offered legal calibers. One gentleman said, “My dad has hunted with a shotgun his whole life, and the recoil is getting painful in his older age. I would love to let him borrow my rifle that has much less recoil, because I am not able to afford to buy him a new one that happens to fit inside Indiana’s narrow caliber rules”. Indiana ground isn’t flat like a lot of people say, we have hills which would be backstops for the bullets and people in tree stands don’t fire up in the air and their backstop is the ground. Hunters on the ground position themselves near a deer trail so that they can find a deer in a controlled space so when they shoot they have a backstop so the bullet will be limited on travel and won’t hit anyone. As far as the arguments against using modern cartridges, any bullet is lethal. If a hunter is shooting without being certain they have an effective backstop then they are willing to risk of someone's life for a deer. Hunter education should cover these safety issues.
My argument for legalizing modern rifle calibers would be:
*Greater accuracy so you will have a cleaner kill. The animal will suffer less, and you will have less wounded deers running away only to have the hunter not retrieve the injured deer and shoot another. The hunter would have more control of his shot placement limiting damage to the deer’s vital organs.
*More people own the more common calibers, so you may have more people take up an interest in hunting, selling more licenses and rifles in Indiana increasing Indiana's revenue.
*Hunters from out of state can hunt here since the rifle's they already own can be used also increasing Indiana's revenue by selling the higher priced out of state licenses.
*Most modern rifle calibers have lower recoil than a shotgun, allowing older hunters to hunt longer. It may also reduce injuries of people falling out of stands due to the heavier recoil knocking them off balance in a tree stand.
Please sign my petition. If you have any suggestions please feel free to comment in the forum’s thread. Thank you.
Petition Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change
Holy Land,
I've had plenty of guns and prefer rifles. But I don't think the regs need changed in order to make Fudds happy or recruit new members. IMHO there's room in the current regs for that.
The biggest culprits to keeping hunting ranks solid IMHO is land access and harvest numbers. We're dealing with a more instant gratification society and it seems as if nobody wants to work at anything anymore. By golly let's let kids hunt with Xbows and rifles at age 5. Now growing up in such an environment might well get a kid hooked on hunting, but my guess is that the family group that does that has private land, or leases a nice chunk.
Leases...........seems the growing trend and getting more expensive every year.
Not too many newbs are gonna plunk down the $$$$ to blast only does, or small bucks once in a great while. I've seen old timers forced into such who have said "screw it" and reserve their deer hunting for "back home-out of state stuff".
Yup.............and they use regular rifles.
But they have large family ground tracts, or lots of state ground. IMHO Indiana doesn't have that much state ground spaced about.
Maintaining and or growing deer hunting in Indiana isn't going to come about by simply making for .30 cal rifles.
By the way, I'll knock a person's genetics and or lack of sophistication any damn time I want.
I've had plenty of guns and prefer rifles. But I don't think the regs need changed in order to make Fudds happy or recruit new members. IMHO there's room in the current regs for that.
The biggest culprits to keeping hunting ranks solid IMHO is land access and harvest numbers. We're dealing with a more instant gratification society and it seems as if nobody wants to work at anything anymore. By golly let's let kids hunt with Xbows and rifles at age 5. Now growing up in such an environment might well get a kid hooked on hunting, but my guess is that the family group that does that has private land, or leases a nice chunk.
Leases...........seems the growing trend and getting more expensive every year.
Not too many newbs are gonna plunk down the $$$$ to blast only does, or small bucks once in a great while. I've seen old timers forced into such who have said "screw it" and reserve their deer hunting for "back home-out of state stuff".
Yup.............and they use regular rifles.
But they have large family ground tracts, or lots of state ground. IMHO Indiana doesn't have that much state ground spaced about.
Maintaining and or growing deer hunting in Indiana isn't going to come about by simply making for .30 cal rifles.
By the way, I'll knock a person's genetics and or lack of sophistication any damn time I want.
I don't see why it's so hard for folks to just trim a .35 rem or .45-70.
Or use a .357 or .44 rifle. Current regs, rifles legal......some good to 200 yards.
Buying a .357 Handi-rifle and having it reamed to Maximum isn't that expensive.
Hell I blow more than that (whole gun purchase/mod) in gas just during deer season.
I've seen lots of folks wince at the cost of new equipment, they driving new or newer trucks/cars. Yeah right.
I buy whatever gun I want, and drive a '94. How people spend their money is their business, but I aint buying that "expensive"argument about getting an IN deer legal rifle.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, they want 300+ yard capability and don't want to spend the $ for a new wildcat rifle?
Now I see.
It's about competing against other hunters, not just the deer.
Whine away, spin away, I won't sign the petition. If anything I'll sign one against it, just because of your posts
Here's one for ya. My hunting bud grew up in a rifle state. And he hunted back home with his in-laws after moving here. Large public ground, used an old 760 in '06, took deer now and then. But he GAVE IT UP.
Why? More deer, better bucks and more kills, in warmer temps.............in Indiana with shotgun. He's got way more $ than me, can buy whatever he wants, and still uses the 870 I sold him. It works that good. And IIRC the last hunt he took back up north, he took the shotgun, just to prove to the more frozen Fudds that slug guns can be accurate.
I've been kinda sorta beating on him to get a .458 SOCOM upper. Or a .460 Ruger #1.
Yeah, I hate guns. Don't know sh*t about them or killing Bambis. Thanks for outting me.
Or use a .357 or .44 rifle. Current regs, rifles legal......some good to 200 yards.
Buying a .357 Handi-rifle and having it reamed to Maximum isn't that expensive.
Hell I blow more than that (whole gun purchase/mod) in gas just during deer season.
I've seen lots of folks wince at the cost of new equipment, they driving new or newer trucks/cars. Yeah right.
I buy whatever gun I want, and drive a '94. How people spend their money is their business, but I aint buying that "expensive"argument about getting an IN deer legal rifle.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, they want 300+ yard capability and don't want to spend the $ for a new wildcat rifle?
Now I see.
It's about competing against other hunters, not just the deer.
Whine away, spin away, I won't sign the petition. If anything I'll sign one against it, just because of your posts
Here's one for ya. My hunting bud grew up in a rifle state. And he hunted back home with his in-laws after moving here. Large public ground, used an old 760 in '06, took deer now and then. But he GAVE IT UP.
Why? More deer, better bucks and more kills, in warmer temps.............in Indiana with shotgun. He's got way more $ than me, can buy whatever he wants, and still uses the 870 I sold him. It works that good. And IIRC the last hunt he took back up north, he took the shotgun, just to prove to the more frozen Fudds that slug guns can be accurate.
I've been kinda sorta beating on him to get a .458 SOCOM upper. Or a .460 Ruger #1.
Yeah, I hate guns. Don't know sh*t about them or killing Bambis. Thanks for outting me.
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*Greater accuracy so you will have a cleaner kill. The animal will suffer less, and you will have less wounded deers running away only to have the hunter not retrieve the injured deer and shoot another. The hunter would have more control of his shot placement limiting damage to the deer’s vital organs.
My last two 870 rifled barrel non cantilever shotguns were sub 2" @100. I've taken deer at 100 and farther, cleanly, with smoothbore Mossberg 500's back in the day (scoped- non cantilever). But I can shoot, test stuff, and also buy my ammo all from one lot #. The lack of gear maintenance, ammo variability etc seen in some slug flingers would no doubt also transfer to their rifle usage. Recoil? A poor fitting rifle is gonna bite. Yeah shotguns thump. Real simple, when zeroing in put a soft pistol case between your shoulder and the butt of the gun. Might also want to go on a diet, as it seems larger folks offer more meat and or fat between the framework and gun, allowing for an intermediate sliding surface. Big guys get the bruises and stretch marks (purple worms). Skinny guys don't.
*More people own the more common calibers, so you may have more people take up an interest in hunting, selling more licenses and rifles in Indiana increasing Indiana's revenue.
Really? This being a prev shotgun state, most folks I reckon own shotguns and .22 rifles. I bet the average gun owner here owns less than a half dozen rigs, and a HP rifle probably not one of them. Want even more revenue? Sell them a new rifle and a deer tag.
*Hunters from out of state can hunt here since the rifle's they already own can be used also increasing Indiana's revenue by selling the higher priced out of state licenses.
Out of state guys plunking down the funds for tags and travel, IMHO a rifle is not really a determining factor. Bigger bucks would be the draw. They want a trophy, my guess is that they will buy/use whatever they need.
*Most modern rifle calibers have lower recoil than a shotgun, allowing older hunters to hunt longer. It may also reduce injuries of people falling out of stands due to the heavier recoil knocking them off balance in a tree stand.
I'm not against Darwinism.
BTW, some rifles can kick pretty bad. One that comes to mind is the old Rem 600 in .308. That stock's ergonomics sucked. A big thump might feel better than a sharp smack. Not all recoil is the same, and it can vary even within cartridge/bullet type by platform and personal fit. Also, proper form and a bit of practice can get one acclimated to recoil. Newer recoil pad materials have also taken some of the thump and or sting out.
My last two 870 rifled barrel non cantilever shotguns were sub 2" @100. I've taken deer at 100 and farther, cleanly, with smoothbore Mossberg 500's back in the day (scoped- non cantilever). But I can shoot, test stuff, and also buy my ammo all from one lot #. The lack of gear maintenance, ammo variability etc seen in some slug flingers would no doubt also transfer to their rifle usage. Recoil? A poor fitting rifle is gonna bite. Yeah shotguns thump. Real simple, when zeroing in put a soft pistol case between your shoulder and the butt of the gun. Might also want to go on a diet, as it seems larger folks offer more meat and or fat between the framework and gun, allowing for an intermediate sliding surface. Big guys get the bruises and stretch marks (purple worms). Skinny guys don't.
*More people own the more common calibers, so you may have more people take up an interest in hunting, selling more licenses and rifles in Indiana increasing Indiana's revenue.
Really? This being a prev shotgun state, most folks I reckon own shotguns and .22 rifles. I bet the average gun owner here owns less than a half dozen rigs, and a HP rifle probably not one of them. Want even more revenue? Sell them a new rifle and a deer tag.
*Hunters from out of state can hunt here since the rifle's they already own can be used also increasing Indiana's revenue by selling the higher priced out of state licenses.
Out of state guys plunking down the funds for tags and travel, IMHO a rifle is not really a determining factor. Bigger bucks would be the draw. They want a trophy, my guess is that they will buy/use whatever they need.
*Most modern rifle calibers have lower recoil than a shotgun, allowing older hunters to hunt longer. It may also reduce injuries of people falling out of stands due to the heavier recoil knocking them off balance in a tree stand.
I'm not against Darwinism.
BTW, some rifles can kick pretty bad. One that comes to mind is the old Rem 600 in .308. That stock's ergonomics sucked. A big thump might feel better than a sharp smack. Not all recoil is the same, and it can vary even within cartridge/bullet type by platform and personal fit. Also, proper form and a bit of practice can get one acclimated to recoil. Newer recoil pad materials have also taken some of the thump and or sting out.
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To your comment about your buddy. Everyone should have a choice of what weapon they would like to use. That is my point even if he comes from a state that used rifles now he loves only Shotguns that is a preference he should be able to have. I think that other hunters that would like to have the prefrence of any 30 Cal. Should be able to have the same choice and be happy with their hunt. If they go down to southern Indiana where I hunt there are a ton of hilly areas that would not allow your shot to go 200 yards as you say. Indiana is not perfectly flat as you imply and everyone that would use a tree stand would be shooting towards the ground to hit their deer. The others would make sure to be safe that their shot wouldnt travel past the point they want it to stop with a backstop. Even their ammo selection is able to limit it with the type of bullet used. We just want to have choice not Change but only choice.
Choice exists:
Handguns, shotguns, bows, muzzleloaders X bows, and.................wait for it........................................rifles (per current regs).
BTW I never implied IN was all flat. Work on that reading comprehension. BTW, your petition could use spell/grammar check as well.
I remember not long ago a .35 Rem rifle was a dust collector at a LGS. Look at Gunbroker or LGS's now. Seems as if many hunters are OK with the regs as they are. Demand is there.
Don't need a custom rifle to get 200 yard capability. I run a trimmed .35 Rem. Another buddy runs a .357 max.
You want 300+ then yeah, current regs dictate something a bit from "standard". But if you're shooting from stands, and under 200, who needs that extra oomph?
I think it's about competition among hunters and not so much the deer, why folks want to use stuff beyond the current regs. There are gun nuts, tinkerer's and competitive folks who LIKE the idea of custom stuff and/or pushing the regulation envelope.
I do have an associate who hunts big open fields up north, and yeah they are flat. Per current regs his weapon of choice? A Bad Bull Muzzleloader. Wicked is an understatement.
No matter what the regs, somebody will push it for real or perceived performance/competitive gain.
Your arguments IMHO don't hold any water.
If they do open it up to .30 cal, why not 6mm (citing your less recoil argument)? I dearly love the .243 Win for yotes and chucks and have had about 8 of them over the years. But being a jerk, I'd probably go 6mm TCU just to be different for IN deer, if they allowed 6mm.
And if we get more hunters, and more out of staters, I bet we see resultant "choices"........... to hunt one week of gun instead of two, and probably after the rut.
Now what's that gonna do for recruitment of new, or maintaining current hunters?
IMNSHO the PCR stuff was a good idea, as .44 spcl and .357 mag is wimpy on recoil and the single shot platforms not expensive, read: dad's can buy kids a rig they can handle. Not bad stuff for the grown ups either.
Harvest numbers might be good enough to show current regs need not be modified. Personally, I think EHD and current regs will keep the numbers in check (as best they can be). I don't think a .30 cal allowance is going to really help..........if there needs to be a higher kill number it's not because of equipment limitations.
Handguns, shotguns, bows, muzzleloaders X bows, and.................wait for it........................................rifles (per current regs).
BTW I never implied IN was all flat. Work on that reading comprehension. BTW, your petition could use spell/grammar check as well.
I remember not long ago a .35 Rem rifle was a dust collector at a LGS. Look at Gunbroker or LGS's now. Seems as if many hunters are OK with the regs as they are. Demand is there.
Don't need a custom rifle to get 200 yard capability. I run a trimmed .35 Rem. Another buddy runs a .357 max.
You want 300+ then yeah, current regs dictate something a bit from "standard". But if you're shooting from stands, and under 200, who needs that extra oomph?
I think it's about competition among hunters and not so much the deer, why folks want to use stuff beyond the current regs. There are gun nuts, tinkerer's and competitive folks who LIKE the idea of custom stuff and/or pushing the regulation envelope.
I do have an associate who hunts big open fields up north, and yeah they are flat. Per current regs his weapon of choice? A Bad Bull Muzzleloader. Wicked is an understatement.
No matter what the regs, somebody will push it for real or perceived performance/competitive gain.
Your arguments IMHO don't hold any water.
If they do open it up to .30 cal, why not 6mm (citing your less recoil argument)? I dearly love the .243 Win for yotes and chucks and have had about 8 of them over the years. But being a jerk, I'd probably go 6mm TCU just to be different for IN deer, if they allowed 6mm.
And if we get more hunters, and more out of staters, I bet we see resultant "choices"........... to hunt one week of gun instead of two, and probably after the rut.
Now what's that gonna do for recruitment of new, or maintaining current hunters?
IMNSHO the PCR stuff was a good idea, as .44 spcl and .357 mag is wimpy on recoil and the single shot platforms not expensive, read: dad's can buy kids a rig they can handle. Not bad stuff for the grown ups either.
Harvest numbers might be good enough to show current regs need not be modified. Personally, I think EHD and current regs will keep the numbers in check (as best they can be). I don't think a .30 cal allowance is going to really help..........if there needs to be a higher kill number it's not because of equipment limitations.
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Mentioned before on another thread..........
Who here would be willing to pay more for a "regular rifle" tag? And how much?
Would $50 for a resident doe "reg rifle tag" be too much?
What about $100 for a buck, resident "reg rifle tag" (post rut).
What about a $250 "reg rifle" buck tag for rut, with 4 pt restriction (one side)?
Who here would be willing to pay more for a "regular rifle" tag? And how much?
Would $50 for a resident doe "reg rifle tag" be too much?
What about $100 for a buck, resident "reg rifle tag" (post rut).
What about a $250 "reg rifle" buck tag for rut, with 4 pt restriction (one side)?
I've been using .243 Win on varmints in IN since '78.............always been legal.
What? You want more supposed options but aren't willing to pay for them?
Me thinks this about cheap folks wanting to compete with the guys playing the game within current regs (wildcatters).
And here I thought those antlers needed ground up to work like the little blue pills, not just hung over the fireplace.
What? You want more supposed options but aren't willing to pay for them?
Me thinks this about cheap folks wanting to compete with the guys playing the game within current regs (wildcatters).
And here I thought those antlers needed ground up to work like the little blue pills, not just hung over the fireplace.
To counter this statement, not all of Indiana is hilly either! Where we live in the northern part of the state, it is VERY flat. You also state that those hunters will make sure to be safe so their shot wouldn't travel past the point hey want to stop with a backstop. If that were true, there would have to be a backstop behind every deer traipsing through the woods. I'd love to see that! Our neighbor that target shoots and thinks he ought to be firing high powered rifles in a populated area, isn't even smart enough to erect a backstop and I wouldn't be obtaining appraisals for the damage he has done to my property and having conversations with the prosecutor right now. Not everyone in this state has a brain!
You cant judge a whole state based on one persons actions Mom. I dont know the full story of what has happened with your neighbor and their target shooting or the damages you say has occurred. But not everyone is like that with their weapons. I dont know if it was their fault of the damages you say happened or not but that isnt the point hunters education trains hunters before they go into the woods and clearly expresses how they are responsible for every shot they make be there a backstop or not. Know what is beyond your target.
Hunter's Ed is good but it isn't a cure for stupid.
Passed the class, IMHO doesn't say much other than "passed the class".
But that "legislated education solves all problems" is another kettle of fish.............................
BTW, when I varmint hunt with centerfires I use varmint bullets- highly frangible. And all the guys I know do too. So the HP rifle for coyotes is OK...so would be for deer too argument........... (IMHO) can't be made due to bullet differences.
Have shot some critters here with 7mm Mag, .300 mag and .35 Whelen.........but in terrain that offered backstops. My one buddy used a .270 Win ..............with 90 gr Speer varmint bullets.
Unfortunately, not everybody who shoots at yonder varmint thinks as they should. Yotes and Mosins seems to be a common proposed pairing on several forums. Yeah, lets add hard ground to FMJ's.
I remember the SKS for $99 and a case of ammo for $99 frenzy. Engineer I worked with peppered his neighbor's barn next road over.
Passed the class, IMHO doesn't say much other than "passed the class".
But that "legislated education solves all problems" is another kettle of fish.............................
BTW, when I varmint hunt with centerfires I use varmint bullets- highly frangible. And all the guys I know do too. So the HP rifle for coyotes is OK...so would be for deer too argument........... (IMHO) can't be made due to bullet differences.
Have shot some critters here with 7mm Mag, .300 mag and .35 Whelen.........but in terrain that offered backstops. My one buddy used a .270 Win ..............with 90 gr Speer varmint bullets.
Unfortunately, not everybody who shoots at yonder varmint thinks as they should. Yotes and Mosins seems to be a common proposed pairing on several forums. Yeah, lets add hard ground to FMJ's.
I remember the SKS for $99 and a case of ammo for $99 frenzy. Engineer I worked with peppered his neighbor's barn next road over.
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