Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change

[mom45]

You cant judge a whole state based on one persons actions Mom. I dont know the full story of what has happened with your neighbor and their target shooting or the damages you say has occurred. But not everyone is like that with their weapons. I dont know if it was their fault of the damages you say happened or not but that isnt the point hunters education trains hunters before they go into the woods and clearly expresses how they are responsible for every shot they make be there a backstop or not. Know what is beyond your target.

I have been through hunter education...more than once as I went through it with my kids. My dad was an instructor for several years. I am just pointing out that not everyone in this state is a safe hunter/shooter as your post would imply. We do not have hills in our area to stop loads that are capable of carrying a good distance. There are enough deer slaughtered without adding rifles to the mix. I know it is muzzleloader season currently, but it is amazing how many shots I am hearing in the past week that appear to not require reloading. Bang Bang Bang....doesn't sound like a muzzleloader to me. Not all hunters are ethical or safe. I know many are, but here they are already blasting at deer beyond the distances that they can safely make sure they have a good clean shot. If a hunter can't take a deer with the options currently available, I would have to question why they are hunting at all. Scout first and know where they are traveling and then be safe about how you are hunting and KNOW your target before you shoot...pretty basic. Those rules have put plenty of venison on our table over the years. Our neighbors all seem to be pretty good at maiming deer that then need to be tracked all over our property. I'd like to get more calls that ask for permission to pick up the deer that were shot and dropped on our side or ran a short distance and fell over. It seems like most times I hear a shot, it is followed by a call that it is somewhere in our woods and now they want to wander all over our hunting space to find their poorly shot deer. Most are never recovered because they leave our property in their injured state and just keep going. I'm not judging the whole state...I'm concerned for my own safety and basing my comments on what I see happening in my own back yard.

 

[HOLY LAND]

Hunter's Ed is good but it isn't a cure for stupid.
Pass the class, IMHO doesn't say much other than "pass the class".
But that "legislated education solves all problems" is another kettle of fish.............................

I dont think we need any legislated education. Its disconcerning you believe that we need goverment intervention to do something that our four fathers have been doing for hundreds of years. Also wanting harsher regulations on firearms and cutting the season back really is something I would imagine one of the Gun Grabbers would be talking about.

 

[HOLY LAND]

I have been through hunter education...more than once as I went through it with my kids. My dad was an instructor for several years. I am just pointing out that not everyone in this state is a safe hunter/shooter as your post would imply. We do not have hills in our area to stop loads that are capable of carrying a good distance. There are enough deer slaughtered without adding rifles to the mix. I know it is muzzleloader season currently, but it is amazing how many shots I am hearing in the past week that appear to not require reloading. Bang Bang Bang....doesn't sound like a muzzleloader to me.

You know that more than one person does go hunting correct? Also I use to go with my Father into the woods so it would be him and me hunting together as well as my Uncle and his Son. So multiple bangs during hunting season is easy to imagine.

 

[HOLY LAND]

You dont know if its beyond the distance the hunter is able to shoot because you are not in their point of view Mom. You dont know how well their abilities are at shooting at various ranges. They could be within safe limits of how they shoot. Plus I doubt you are right there beside them with every shot they take to know its unsafe you might hear like you say bang, bang, bang but that doesnt mean that they are being unsafe or that its the same hunter when I am in the woods and hear someone shoot I cant tell other than direction how close one bang is from another for all I know its two separate hunters a 100 yards a part or 200 in the same direction.

 

[Hookeye]

Uh, too late buddy boy, Hunter's Ed is mandatory for those born after a certain date.

BTW, my guess is our forefathers (I'm not from an entitlement environment where I don't know who my dad is) took game whenever they needed to eat and there were no seasons..........................or licenses.

Hey, BTW, aren't muzzle-loaders legal for deer in the Indiana consolidated firearms season?

Dude, quit the reaching, you're making your petition even more laughable.

 

[HOLY LAND]

I was also born before the mandatory Hunter's Ed Hookeye. My Father brought me up knowing the rules and how to hunt safely and to respect my fellow hunters and neighbors that I would hunt around. Hunters education is a good resource but not needed they dont even charge for the classes so anyone can go and learn about hunting safety. I went to hunters education and it was all very common sense so please dont disrespect anyone saying that they are unsafe or dumb respect your fellow sportsmen please.

I just want to make it so that people can use 30 caliber rifles for hunting and enjoy the season just as everyone else does. I am not saying they cant use any of the other wonderful firearms legal for the season I want this for everyone to enjoy.


Petition Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change

Indiana Hunting Regulations can be frustrating at times when you want to go hunting with a more common rifle caliber. I want to have the law updated so we can use a broader range of calibers.

Hunting white tail deer all 30 caliber rifles should be legalized in Indiana. These modern 30 caliber cartridges are used nationwide year round for hunting, target practice and other activities. People are limited on how they are able to hunt with the way the law is now; we are not able to used our Grandpa’s old 3030 rifle or any other modern rifle because of the current law. 30 caliber riffles are used in a lot of states for hunting deer and I believe Indiana should allow us to have the same option. I feel it’s a shame that many people who move to Indiana and have more common caliber rifles are forbidden to use them for hunting and can only find themselves with the choice of shots guns or the limited selection listed in the DNR book.

It can cost more than most people have to build a gun around the offered legal calibers. One gentleman said, “My dad has hunted with a shotgun his whole life, and the recoil is getting painful in his older age. I would love to let him borrow my rifle that has much less recoil, because I am not able to afford to buy him a new one that happens to fit inside Indiana’s narrow caliber rules”. Indiana ground isn’t flat like a lot of people say, we have hills which would be backstops for the bullets and people in tree stands don’t fire up in the air and their backstop is the ground. Hunters on the ground position themselves near a deer trail so that they can find a deer in a controlled space so when they shoot they have a backstop so the bullet will be limited on travel and won’t hit anyone. As far as the arguments against using modern cartridges, any bullet is lethal. If a hunter is shooting without being certain they have an effective backstop then they are willing to risk of someone's life for a deer. Hunter education should cover these safety issues.


My argument for legalizing modern rifle calibers would be:

*Greater accuracy so you will have a cleaner kill. The animal will suffer less, and you will have less wounded deers running away only to have the hunter not retrieve the injured deer and shoot another. The hunter would have more control of his shot placement limiting damage to the deer’s vital organs.

*More people own the more common calibers, so you may have more people take up an interest in hunting, selling more licenses and rifles in Indiana increasing Indiana's revenue.

*Hunters from out of state can hunt here since the rifle's they already own can be used also increasing Indiana's revenue by selling the higher priced out of state licenses.

*Most modern rifle calibers have lower recoil than a shotgun, allowing older hunters to hunt longer. It may also reduce injuries of people falling out of stands due to the heavier recoil knocking them off balance in a tree stand.

Please sign my petition. If you have any suggestions please feel free to comment in the forum’s thread. Thank you.

Petition Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change

 

[philagothon]

I use my Remington 700 in .243 for deer. I just have to stop 2 weeks before bow season starts. If I had a choice, you better believe I'd use it in the regular seasons too. Light recoil, <1 MOA accuracy, and 300+ yard capability make it a fine rifle for Indiana whitetail. Bullet selection isn't hard, any 100+ grain soft point will do, but a Barnes TSX is freaking awesome. I would love to see the legal cartridges opened up. With improvements in bullet technology even the .223 is proving to be more than adequate for those willing to wait for a proper shot.

I am friends with several farmers and one of the state biologists. Despite what some people will claim, our herd is big and getting bigger. Farmers are seeing massive crop loss. Biologists are issuing more and more crop permits. If you're not seeing deer, it's not because they're all gone.

Btw, I also get to use bait.

Indiana's regs are slowly getting better. Hopefully they will relax some more before long. There is no VALID reason to continue restricting calibers. I would be more willing to listen to action or capacity limits. If Bubba had an H&R single shot .308 he'll ensure that one shot count. If Bubba gets to cut loose with 20+ rounds of .300 BLK, I'll just be real happy I get to hunt private land. I've been in the public forests a couple times on opening day, and truth be told it's kinda scary when Bubba cuts loose with all 6 slugs in his Mossberg in less than 15 seconds. As much as I hate restrictions and regulations, Bubba with a SlideFire .300 BLK scares me.

 

[mom45]

You know that more than one person does go hunting correct? Also I use to go with my Father into the woods so it would be him and me hunting together as well as my Uncle and his Son. So multiple bangs during hunting season is easy to imagine.

Gee...that's exactly what I told my husband when those three shots went off right in a row...must be three guys lined up shooting at the same deer. DUH....yeah, I'm not stupid and I know the shooting patterns during hunting season. I listen to them for weeks out there. One shot means it's down, two means first one missed or wasn't a clean hit...three usually means it got away.

 

[mom45]

You dont know if its beyond the distance the hunter is able to shoot because you are not in their point of view Mom. You dont know how well their abilities are at shooting at various ranges. They could be within safe limits of how they shoot. Plus I doubt you are right there beside them with every shot they take to know its unsafe you might hear like you say bang, bang, bang but that doesnt mean that they are being unsafe or that its the same hunter when I am in the woods and hear someone shoot I cant tell other than direction how close one bang is from another for all I know its two separate hunters a 100 yards a part or 200 in the same direction.

The people hunting the perimeter of my property are all aiming INTO our property. My house is in the center of said property...less than 1/4 mile from those stands they are sitting in. I do NOT want rifles shooting toward my house throughout gun season. Until you know the set up here or the lack of responsibility shown by the people hunting this area, I don't believe it is fair for you to judge my situation. Muzzle loaders and shotguns do not sound the same when they are fired and this is not a muzzle loader they are using. I have had these "hunters" tell me that they took the shot even though the deer was probably too far away to safely hit it. They admit this in conversation, so I do know what ranges they are shooting at. I also know they are not getting clean hits because we see the deer and/or track the deer until they leave our property. I know where their stands are located, and I know how different firearms sound from my yard based on where my husband is when he shoots or which neighbor calls me after they've shot and so I do have a good basis for estimating who is shooting. I usually predict who is going to call before the phone rings. Again, if they were not shooting in my direction, they would have no need to call me to track the deer on my ground.

 

[philagothon]

I'm a nice enough guy, but if you shoot a deer on my property it's my deer. Don't like it? Call DNR. Explain to the DNR why you shot across a fence. Shooting onto someone else's property is dangerous and dumb and I won't encourage it by letting them retrieve "their" deer. If they can show me it was hit on their property and ran onto mine, yeah they can come get it. No proof that it was hit on their property; it's my deer.

ETA: I should say this is the way I manage the land I hunt. The farmers let me make the calls because they trust me. If you shoot a deer on my property the local police will probably handle the call for discharging a firearm in town.

 

[mom45]

I'm a nice enough guy, but if you shoot a deer on my property it's my deer. Don't like it? Call DNR. Explain to the DNR why you shot across a fence. Shooting onto someone else's property is dangerous and dumb and I won't encourage it by letting them retrieve "their" deer. If they can show me it was hit on their property and ran onto mine, yeah they can come get it. No proof that it was hit on their property; it's my deer.

ETA: I should say this is the way I manage the land I hunt. The farmers let me make the calls because they trust me. If you shoot a deer on my property the local police will probably handle the call for discharging a firearm in town.

One has lost the privilege of retrieving deer that "ran onto your side". Others are soon to lose it....this year was worse than ever and we are tired of dealing with the calls. The first couple that the one guy shot, we could not determine for sure where they were when he shot them. The last one, we found where it had been standing and dropped...definitely on our side of the property line. I believe we will be putting a fence up next year wherever it is feasible to do so. We already have the line cleared and marked with surveyor tape so we were hoping not to have to go to that expense.

 

[philagothon]

One has lost the privilege of retrieving deer that "ran onto your side". Others are soon to lose it....this year was worse than ever and we are tired of dealing with the calls. The first couple that the one guy shot, we could not determine for sure where they were when he shot them. The last one, we found where it had been standing and dropped...definitely on our side of the property line. I believe we will be putting a fence up next year wherever it is feasible to do so. We already have the line cleared and marked with surveyor tape so we were hoping not to have to go to that expense.

It's unfortunate that some people are so rude. The main farm I hunt has severely restricted hunting do to damage and disrespect from just a couple guys. One bad apple truly can spoil it for everyone. Hunters complaining about land access need to take a hard look in the mirror and at their fellow hunters. The farmers are happy to get rid of the deer eating their crops, but they're not willing to trade grain for damaged fields and disrespectful/ungrateful hunters.

 

[HOLY LAND]

This would be a good option for hunting White Tail or the Barnes Bullets would be even better.

7.62 x 54R (Mosin Nagant) Winchester 180 gr Soft Point Ammo Review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV5uHVV6NPk

 

[Hookeye]

Gee...that's exactly what I told my husband when those three shots went off right in a row...must be three guys lined up shooting at the same deer. DUH....yeah, I'm not stupid and I know the shooting patterns during hunting season. I listen to them for weeks out there. One shot means it's down, two means first one missed or wasn't a clean hit...three usually means it got away.

FWIW coyotes are in season and AR's make for dandy yote rifles. You hear 3 quick shots in my neck of the woods it means a mover got smoked, maybe even more than one! BTW I used to be somewhat infamous at the local checkin for having multiple good hits on my deer.
Boom boom boom...............doesn't mean there is a miss.

 

[Hookeye]

It's the Xmas season, time for Santa Claus, not some pseudo cause.

 

[Hookeye]

Hunter's Ed is like any other class...........you can only teach those who want to learn.
And some will retain the info only long enough to pass the test.
Others may retain everything, pass with flying colors, but not apply the material properly after the class is done.
Lots of variables. The class probably of fair benefit, but it'd be hard to fully measure.

BTW, a close family member has been a HE Instructor for 30 years.

Wowzers, I'm like the freakin' Star of Bethlehem, all this Holy Land enlightenment.



IMHO the petition's arguments and this thread are an insult to a normal person's intelligence.

Just say it for what it is............I want different cartridges because I want an edge and am too cheap to play by the current regs. Don't get technical, because you're not good at that.

I can live with such honesty.

Even if I disagree with it, I can respect the view.

No can do with this supposed selfless crusade.

 

[philagothon]

Good ol' Hookeye, always a ray of sunshine on this topic.

The regs have changed a lot in recent years. They will likely continue changing. Some people prefer liberty over subjugation. Why should a free person not be allowed to use whatever weapon they desire to take a deer? If a guy wants to use a 338 Lapua, why is it anyone's business but his? He's responsible for every round, hit or miss. Other states allow reasonable adults to make their own decision in regards to caliber. Why should Indiana be restrictive? The only limits that make any sense to me are the ones deeply rooted in safety.

If the biologists ever see the heard starting to shrink, we may eventually see some type of effort to reduce the number of deer taken. As it is right now, the herd is too large. It needs reduced. More hunters with easier to use and more accurate firearms are a move in the right direction. Yup, one day fees may need to go up to reduce the number of tags bought. One day there may be a statewide limit in place of the current county by county limits. One day we may see a lottery system for deer tags. Today, ain't that day. Today we are seeing too few deer taken and a growing herd.

 

[Hookeye]

While hunting deer may involve killing, not all killing is hunting.

Yup, hunting can be a wildlife management tool. But that's not all it is.

Some folks just don't get it.

While some states have more open cartridge allowances, my bet is that they too have some cal/energy restrictions....the lines are just drawn where some find it favorable in comparison to their home state's. Geee, I guess states shouldn't be able to make their own rules.

And really, the Liberty argument................well then lets go full out and let people take as many bucks and does as they want in October with .22 WMR............as long as they assume responsibility for being safe. There, I buckled under all your projected uber patriotism.

Newsflash: just because you don't like the current regs that doesn't mean they need changed.

Unless of course you just don't want to comply and or are a cheapskate. Either of those is actually justifiable IMHO. Blowing smoke up my arse and telling me you're here to be my .30 cal savior.............well, not so much. Geeesh, it's like some supposed ex druggie or prostitute coming to my door telling me how they just found Jesus and are there to save me from my friggin' self.

Want to use your .308 1000 yard rig and put meat in the freezer? Go nuisance permit. It's available, and with the deer overpopulating it'd surely be a piece of cake to get on a nuisance hunt.

 

[Hookeye]

Copy/snip:


"More Hunters with easier to use and more accurate firearms are a move in the right direction."
************************

Thank God nobody ever misses or wounds with a rifle.

BTW what level of accuracy do you think should be the legal threshold? If "more accurate" is your argument, then there's got to be some criteria.

My old 870 put 5 WW HI Supremes into 1.5", repeatedly at 100 yards. Yeah, it sucked. Never missed a deer with it, and all were recovered. Thankfully I sold that rig, and avoided the damn near national disaster.

Sorry, IMHO allowing rifles of different cartridge spec isn't going to be the magic wand for less wounding some would try to have us believe.

I think wounding and missing to be influenced by more than gear type, or supposed accuracy issue of the questioned platforms.

A lot of folks who can't shoot are cheap, stupid and or of no skill. Giving them a different rifle option (from the current regs that allow for lesser recoil platforms already) is no freakin' guarantee of less wounding. It might help for some, and it might also make those who suck just good enough to score fringe hits.

One need not shoot MOA or under to take deer cleanly. Responsibility, responsibility (seems to be the mantra here on this thread)................OK, be responsible to know your gear and operate within your limits.

So with that, the accuracy betterment argument is BS.

This whole deal seems to be of 3 catagories:

1. People wanting to use their pet rifle for deer instead of just punching paper or clanging steel
2. People being too cheap to get a rifle under the current regs
3. Folks wanting more range in competition with other hunters.

I can actually respect such wants.

Even if I don't agree with them.

Telling me they are needs, and offering them to me as some form of help or enlightenment isn't being honest.

 

[Hookeye]

Holy Land,

I truly find your petition and defense of it insulting, to gun owners and deer hunters.

Thanks for the neg rep attempt or whatever it was.


Here's your self help tip o' the day: if you really want to feel important, adopt a puppy or something.