Indiana Democrat Legislators Hide Out

[Bill of Rights]

But they are not using any loophole...they are flat out violating the rules of the House:

House Rule #4:
Power of Less Than a Quorum to Compel Attendance. Seven (7) members with the
Speaker or Speaker Pro Tempore, or eight (8) members in the absence of the Speaker and
Speaker Pro Tempore, one member of the majority of whom they shall elect acting Speaker, may
call the House to order, compel the attendance of absent members, make an order for their fine
and censure and adjourn from day to day until a quorum is in attendance.
House Rule #36:
Attendance. No member shall be absent from the service of the House unless
excused by the Speaker, is sick or is unable to attend.
House Rule #49:
Absent Members.
49.1 A member who is absent from the House without excuse may, by order of the
members present, be sent for and taken into custody wherever found by the Doorkeeper or other
person appointed for that purpose.
49.2 When a member is discharged from custody and admitted to the House, the
remaining members shall determine whether a fine, censure or other penalty should be imposed.
The House shall determine whether a delinquent member, taken into custody, shall pay the
expenses incurred.
House Rule #77
Absence of Quorum. When less than a quorum is present no motion may be
entertained, except to adjourn or compel the attendance of members.

(Above may be found at http://www.in.gov/legislative/session/houserules.pdf)

When they refuse to follow their own rules, I care nothing about party lines: Their actions are dirty and should IMHO, be censured and fined, and those committing them, since they've shown they aren't willing to do the jobs we, the people, hired them to do, should be removed and people willing to actually do the job, hired.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Palarran]

I believe is that it is perfectly legitimate for one group of reps to walk out and deny the majority a quorum. If this goes on too long there are mechanisms in place to force the minority to return and allow the legislative body to reconvene. It is another thing altogether to leave the state and entirely shut down the legislative process. This is equivalent to the Republicans all packing up and going to Canada (assuming Canada was a conservative country) during the health care vote. This is not how things should be done; we believe in freedom of speech and peacefully convincing the voters that your side is correct. If you can't do that, and you loose big in an election, you should expect that things you don't like will be enacted.

 

[dross]

When they refuse to follow their own rules, I care nothing about party lines: Their actions are dirty and should IMHO, be censured and fined, and those committing them, since they've shown they aren't willing to do the jobs we, the people, hired them to do, should be removed and people willing to actually do the job, hired.

Blessings,
Bill

First, I'm not defending their actions, just pointing out that fish will swim, birds will fly, worms will eat dirt, and politicians will make decisions based on votes and raising money for reelection.

So it violates their rules? Let's censure them and/or remove them from office as is provided for. Oh, but wait...we don't have the votes for that. I wonder if THEY know that? I bet they do. So, since they can't be censured and fired for this action, but they will benefit from it in the form of votes and campaign money, I wonder which they'll choose?

I know, I know, call on me!

My cat caught a mouse the other day. He was just torturing it and playing with it before I took it away from him and killed it. He sure was cruel about it. I wonder if I can convince him of that? He should have more respect for his fellow creatures. I sure wish the world was different.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

So it violates their rules? Let's censure them and/or remove them from office as is provided for. Oh, but wait...we don't have the votes for that. I wonder if THEY know that? I bet they do. So, since they can't be censured and fired for this action, but they will benefit from it in the form of votes and campaign money, I wonder which they'll choose?

Why don't we have the votes for it? House and senate rule both state that a quorum is not needed for a motion to censure. I posted the senate rules earlier and BoR posted the house rules. Censure is one of the few things that don't require a quorum.

 

[dross]

Why don't we have the votes for it? House and senate rule both state that a quorum is not needed for a motion to censure. I posted the senate rules earlier and BoR posted the house rules. Censure is one of the few things that don't require a quorum.

Why won't they censure them then?

 

[jedi]

But they are not using any loophole...they are flat out violating the rules of the House:

House Rule #4:
Power of Less Than a Quorum to Compel Attendance. Seven (7) members with the
Speaker or Speaker Pro Tempore, or eight (8) members in the absence of the Speaker and
Speaker Pro Tempore, one member of the majority of whom they shall elect acting Speaker, may
call the House to order, compel the attendance of absent members, make an order for their fine
and censure and adjourn from day to day until a quorum is in attendance.
House Rule #36:
Attendance. No member shall be absent from the service of the House unless
excused by the Speaker, is sick or is unable to attend.
House Rule #49:
Absent Members.
49.1 A member who is absent from the House without excuse may, by order of the
members present, be sent for and taken into custody wherever found by the Doorkeeper or other
person appointed for that purpose.
49.2 When a member is discharged from custody and admitted to the House, the
remaining members shall determine whether a fine, censure or other penalty should be imposed.
The House shall determine whether a delinquent member, taken into custody, shall pay the
expenses incurred.
House Rule #77
Absence of Quorum. When less than a quorum is present no motion may be
entertained, except to adjourn or compel the attendance of members.

(Above may be found at http://www.in.gov/legislative/session/houserules.pdf)

When they refuse to follow their own rules, I care nothing about party lines: Their actions are dirty and should IMHO, be censured and fined, and those committing them, since they've shown they aren't willing to do the jobs we, the people, hired them to do, should be removed and people willing to actually do the job, hired.

Blessings,
Bill

They have NOT broken their own rules from what I'm reading BoR.


Their rule says...
No member shall be absent from the service of the House unless
excused by the Speaker, is sick or is unable to attend.

Okay we know the Speaker did not excuse them.
However some of those reps "could" be sick.
Lastly "unable to attend" is very broadly defined. Right now those reps that are missing are indeed "unable to attend" and can give whatever reason they want.


Now I say we just get a group of IN residents to get "other person appointed for that purpose" by the current house and send them off to go fetch these lost lads of ours. After all they could be in danger espeically if they are in IL.

49.1 A member who is absent from the House without excuse may, by order of the
members present, be sent for and taken into custody wherever found by the Doorkeeper or other
person appointed for that purpose.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Why don't we have the votes for it? House and senate rule both state that a quorum is not needed for a motion to censure. I posted the senate rules earlier and BoR posted the house rules. Censure is one of the few things that don't require a quorum.

It does require a quorum, though, he's correct. They can vote to compel the other Representatives' presence with only eight, but a vote for censure, fine, or removal requires a quorum. They have to come back eventually, though... I can't imagine that they can afford to stay in hotels from now through April 29th.

I don't recall if those votes require a majority or a supermajority, so once the quorum is present, if it just takes a simple majority, the censures and fines CAN happen.

I don't have the rules up on my screen at the moment to confirm how many are needed to pass those motions, sorry.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

They have NOT broken their own rules from what I'm reading BoR.


Their rule says...
No member shall be absent from the service of the House unless
excused by the Speaker, is sick or is unable to attend.

Okay we know the Speaker did not excuse them.
However some of those reps "could" be sick.
Lastly "unable to attend" is very broadly defined. Right now those reps that are missing are indeed "unable to attend" and can give whatever reason they want.


Now I say we just get a group of IN residents to get "other person appointed for that purpose" by the current house and send them off to go fetch these lost lads of ours. After all they could be in danger espeically if they are in IL.

49.1 A member who is absent from the House without excuse may, by order of the
members present, be sent for and taken into custody wherever found by the Doorkeeper or other
person appointed for that purpose.

The excuse I heard that was given was that they were caucusing at an unnamed location.

As for "persons appointed for that purpose", those would be LEOs, since by the US Constitution, people may not be denied life, liberty, or property without due process of law, and only LEOs are granted the authority, within their jurisdiction, to seize/arrest people. The only LEOs the General Assembly can appoint for that purpose would be ISP, including the Capitol Police, but they do not have unlimited jurisdiction. If the Reps are outside of Indiana, returning them would require extradition. I think we all know the likelihood of IL's governor granting that is zero. A federal judge might be able to issue a warrant to the US Marshals for arrest, however, they have committed no actual crime, just a violation of IN House rules, so I'd bet against that.

No, they will come back whenever they're da*n good and ready, and per IN Constitution, they will at most be subject to removal from office and a fine, not arrest.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[E5RANGER375]

too bad they cant be tar and feathered too by the rules of coarse

 

[IndyBeerman]

I say file a lawsuit against any and all legislators that fail to show, for failure to due their jobs.

(posted via Droid X)

 

[CVMA544]

Could they be denying all the citizens of their rights by not conducting the people's and state's business?

I am feeling awful violated, it is causing me emotional distress thinking that my legislators don't care about ME anymore.....sniff, sniff......little tears welling up in my eyes.....about ready to cry

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Why won't they censure them then?

As one person in this thread said, they want to use this for political posturing, and as I said early they don't want it to be used against them if/when they do it.

It does require a quorum, though, he's correct. They can vote to compel the other Representatives' presence with only eight, but a vote for censure, fine, or removal requires a quorum. They have to come back eventually, though... I can't imagine that they can afford to stay in hotels from now through April 29th.

I don't recall if those votes require a majority or a supermajority, so once the quorum is present, if it just takes a simple majority, the censures and fines CAN happen.

I don't have the rules up on my screen at the moment to confirm how many are needed to pass those motions, sorry.

Blessings,
Bill

Bill reread your earlier post, less than a quorum can make an order to fine and censure. I'm guessing that the reason that less than a quorum can do it, is to prohibit these kinds of stunts.

House Rule #4:
Power of Less Than a Quorum to Compel Attendance. Seven (7) members with the
Speaker or Speaker Pro Tempore, or eight (8) members in the absence of the Speaker and
Speaker Pro Tempore, one member of the majority of whom they shall elect acting Speaker, may
call the House to order, compel the attendance of absent members, make an order for their fine
and censure and adjourn from day to day until a quorum is in attendance.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[jeremy]

Two things have crossed my mind in the last couple of days...

1.) Why did we allow the ability to chase them out of town to be lifted away from us?!
2.) Shame dueling is illegal...

 

[model67a]

These elected officials have in effect formed their own union and are picketing the state government!!! The union bosses will be in to collect their union dues shortly!!!!

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

They won't be censured - because the republicans do not want to censure them.

Mitch Daniels would not send police to bring them back, even if they were known to be in the state. Nobody campaigned on this issue, and he believes it hurts more than it helps.

That being said, in a taped telephone call with Scott Walker from WI, he spoke of looking into the possibility of the unions putting up WI senators. If their room / board is being paid for by the union, it may at the least be considered an ethics violation, if not a felony. Interesting to see how that plays out - considering the situation is very similar.

http://www.buffalobeast.com/?p=5045

I think it is silly that this is being done over a "rights to work" bill - that I believe should be passed. However, this is all a political play anyway, and is due to the legislation in WI.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Daniels has promised to call for a special session, so they'll have to come back and face the music eventually.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Also, Pat Bauer is a giant douche. How the hell do the people of South Bend constantly re-elect him? Are they really that stupid?

His hair piece is terrible too. It's starting to look like road kill.

 

[jeremy]

Also, Pat Bauer is a giant douche. How the hell do the people of South Bend constantly re-elect him? Are they really that stupid?

You do not get up that way very often do you?!

 

[ATOMonkey]

I've been to Elkheart and South Bend once. That was plenty.

 

[jeremy]

I've been to Elkheart and South Bend once. That was plenty.

I feel fairly safe in thinking you can answer your own question then...