IN State Super of Ed

[hoosiersasquatch]

I believe the right to work bill allows our up an coming teachers who will be entering the work force the ability to work in the educational field without having to join or pay the union any fees. I know my son and his fiancée are not"pro union". Given time, I see the union dwindling, especially if we elect the right people to make this field a pay for performance rather tenure.

 

[Pooty22]

Now. Are you a teacher? What dog do you have in this fight?

My dog in this fight first and foremost is that I have one (soon to be two) children. Since I care about the education they will someday receive, I must be concerned with the way public education is run in this state. My second dog is the fact that my wife is a teacher and I have several close friends who are also teachers. That being said, I made this decision on my own a few years ago (before I was married), not because I'm married to a teacher.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Excellent Pooty22! Thanks for that link!

Top contributor is Alice Walton - of Walmart fame
Next in line is Dean V White - made a crapload of money in business. From Indiana
Next in line is Christel DeHaan - noted philanthropist and supporter of school choice initiatives. From Indiana..
Bloomberg... well he's a wanker... but a philanthropist.

EDIT - I may have this slightly out of order due to multiple contributions on the list.

I see very little here that he's going to have to pay back - with the possible exception of the one you mentioned.

I don't see near the problem here that I do with ISTA. I REALLY appreciate you putting that list up.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

My dog in this fight first and foremost is that I have one (soon to be two) children. Since I care about the education they will someday receive, I must be concerned with the way public education is run in this state. My second dog is the fact that my wife is a teacher and I have several close friends who are also teachers. That being said, I made this decision on my own a few years ago (before I was married), not because I'm married to a teacher.

Easy chief - I'm an honest dude - just looking for answers. I have four kids that are in the process of going /gone through IN schools. And I'm a small business owner and taxpayer. When you say "I made this decision on my own a few years ago" to what are you referring?

 

[CathyInBlue]

I believe the right to work bill allows our up an coming teachers who will be entering the work force the ability to work in the educational field without having to join or pay the union any fees. I know my son and his fiancée are not"pro union". Given time, I see the union dwindling, especially if we elect the right people to make this field a pay for performance rather tenure.

Actually, as a result of a state court case, public education was the only area of work in Indiana that was already RTW. No one entering public education as a teacher could be forced to join any teacher's union or pay union dues. Of course, they have other ways of making you pay.

In order to maintain your teaching license, you have to do X amount of continuing teaching education. Union participation makes satisfying those licensure requirements trivial. Without the union helping you, it's difficult to impossible for non-union teachers to satisfy the requirements to just stay teachers.

 

[Pooty22]

That's weird. Usually when people around these parts hear Bloomberg their heads explode. I don't see near the problem with the ISTA that some of you do, but I suppose that's something that we just disagree upon. They're not even her largest campaign contributor. I just don't understand what's so wrong about the union.

 

[Pooty22]

Actually, as a result of a state court case, public education was the only area of work in Indiana that was already RTW. No one entering public education as a teacher could be forced to join any teacher's union or pay union dues. Of course, they have other ways of making you pay.

In order to maintain your teaching license, you have to do X amount of continuing teaching education. Union participation makes satisfying those licensure requirements trivial. Without the union helping you, it's difficult to impossible for non-union teachers to satisfy the requirements to just stay teachers.

Actually it's not that difficult or impossible to satisfy the requirements for maintaining your teacher's license. My wife hasn't been a member of any teachers' union for over four years now and she's still a teacher.

 

[Pooty22]

When you say "I made this decision on my own a few years ago" to what are you referring?

I made the decision not to vote for Bennett.

 

[Survivalcookie]

I am voting for Bennett got his sign in my yard.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Questions (and I don't know the answers, but I fear that I might have a guess):

a) who negotiates with the ISTA?
b) why might it be a conflict of interest (or at least a very bad idea) to have a State Schools Chief beholden to the ISTA?
c) might prior negotiations be a good reason for ISTA to come after someone?
d) might the union practice of supporting democrats and setting up crony deals have something to with why people don't like them?
e) What's in it for me as a taxpayer?
f) Oh yeah, (cough) what about my kids - what's the difference there at the end of the day in the schools. I don't mean "is it better for the teachers?". I mean, is it demonstrably different for my kids one way or the other? if so , I'm all ears. But the teachers UNION (as opposed to the teachers themselves) have spouted so much crap in the past - I'm inclined to take their pontifications with a grain or two of salt...


I'm not going to turn this into a union thread. I could go on all night with why they suck. And I'm sure a lot of union folks can tell me why they are great. This isn't the place. Suffice it to say that while I think they once had a place, they have gone way past their usefulness. And like many, I think lower of them than camel stuff at the bottom of a dry well. (And that shows my background as a business owner... we all have our prejudices). Again, i'm sure that lots of folks love them - good for them, to each their own.

As Ross Perot famously said - "we the tax payers are the owners of the company". Teachers, Administrators work for us - not the other way around. I'm ALL FOR paying the BEST teachers MORE money. The BEST - not the ones that have been around the longest, nor the ones that kiss the Union Ass the best. The BEST. And you can tell the BEST because the parents that care can tell you who they are. I can give you plenty of examples from both Salem and Scottsburg Schools. And they are NOT who the union thinks they are.

So far the only folks supporting Ms. Ritz are either teachers or those who wish to become teachers or relatives of same. And the union. Some of the teachers backing her impresses me - the union does not.

Again - if you're going to be friends with the union and be obviously beholden to them - you are going to have to DEMONSTRATE some _massive_ reasons why I shouldn't vote for the other guy and I should for you.

Simply looking at the list of donors to his campaign isn't anywhere near close. I would agree with many of them. (And you're right, I would choke Bloomberg if given the opportunity... grin) I'm still open to listening.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I made the decision not to vote for Bennett.

So you feel about Bennett, the way I do about Obama? If so, fair enough...

 

[Principal Skinr]

I made the decision not to vote for Bennett.

Same here, and I loathe the ISTA. They don't represent most Indiana educators, and I've not been associated with them or any union in my 20 year career. Bennett has NOT helped schools improve. He HAS been 100% promoting more authority and power for the DOE in Indianapolis, taking it away from local communities. That is a liberal idea, and is contrary to conservatism. Why? He's bought and paid for by out of state, for profit entities whose performance has been worse than the public schools they replace. (Louisiana, for example.)

 

[jsharmon7]

Every teacher I know is rabidly against Bennett. That tells me something about him.

 

[long coat]

My wife is a teacher and said vote for Ritz

My sons teacher has told her husband that she will be "let go" in 2 years because her kids test scores will not be going up, they can't go up if they are already 95-100%. Yes that's right, if you kids score high on the test (at the start of the year) they can't raise their score (at the end of the year) so the teacher is a bad teacher and will be fired.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

That's interesting. OK - so it's his top down approach that's the big negative?

Principal Skinr, I'm glad you brought your opinion to the table. Our prior conversations give your words some more weight.

If so - this choice really is no good. So Bennett's horrible for his top down approach, and Ritz will be in the pocket of ISTA?

Hornadylnl? You listening? I might have to find me a third party candidate.... quick...

I know - now I know how you, Prometheus, and Rambone feel about voting for President. I'll say it so you don't have to...

 

[Coach]

Bennet refused to debate Ritz face to face. She wanted to debate but he would not agree to it. The reason is that he knows nothing about education, and every claim he makes is twisted or false.

Public dollars for education should go to public schools and not to private schools. Wanting to close down public schools in order for Charter schools and private companies to make a profit, is not what education should be about.

The power of the teachers union and their evil is the second biggest lie of all time. The first being that Satan does not exist.

On my way out the door to vote against him.

 

[hornadylnl]

My mother taught for nearly 30 years and was one of the best. The last several years, she was the school union president and traveled to several ISTA and NEA conventions. My mother, by all accounts was a social prude. She harbored some sympathy for homosexuals but other than that, she was very conservative socially. But when it came time to vote, her vote was decided soley on the union agenda. She would try to tell me who to vote for. As good of a teacher as she was, her mission in the union was about teachers and not about education.

 

[Principal Skinr]

The DOE has had no hand in my school's improvement. I wouldn't mind seeing it gone. They sent a guy to help us who was never a teacher, never an administrator, and never held a professional position of any kind. All he did was take notes and thank us for teaching him things he'd use to help other schools. Flattering, but worthless. His degree was in American Philosophy. Not impressed.

[/B]QUOTE=ArmedProgrammer;3469954]That's interesting. OK - so it's his top down approach that's the big negative?

Principal Skinr, I'm glad you brought your opinion to the table. Our prior conversations give your words some more weight.

If so - this choice really is no good. So Bennett's horrible for his top down approach, and Ritz will be in the pocket of ISTA?

Hornadylnl? You listening? I might have to find me a third party candidate.... quick...

I know - now I know how you, Prometheus, and Rambone feel about voting for President. I'll say it so you don't have to... [/QUOTE]

 

[88GT]

Well that was a pretty biased article even for this site. The fact is, Bennett is trying to run the public education system in Indiana like a business. Education is not a business, therefore it cannot be run like one. And if anyone wants to preach the "fiscal responsibility" platform to me about how Bennett is running education, just realize that the ISTEP alone costs Indiana tens of millions per year, a test that Ritz plans to get rid of in favor of a growth model test, which reflects individual student growth rather than the growth of a collective population.

Memo: plans have been in the works for at least a year (which is when I became aware of it) to replace the ISTEP. Ritz isn't some innovator in this area.

Also, I encourage you to call any public school teacher you know who is a Republican and ask them for whom they are voting. I can almost guarantee you they will say Glenda Ritz. And the teachers' union has nothing to do with it as far as most teachers are concerned. I honestly don't know a single teacher who is arguing for Ritz on the basis that she will strengthen the teachers' union. I also don't know a single teacher who is voting for Tony Bennett either. And I know quite a few as my wife is a teacher.

Why public? Are only public educators entitled to an opinion? I am an educator and Ritz is threatening to eliminate or seriously curtail my ability to teach.

Can we get off the Union thing? I'm asking you to please call an educator who wants nothing to do with unions and ask him/her why he/she is voting for Ritz. I think hoosiersasquatch might be able to help you if you're having trouble finding one.

I'm not voting for Ritz. Wouldn't be even if we removed the union-connection. But the union connection alone would be enough for me to disqualify her from receiving my vote: publicly funded positions of employment should not be allowed to utilize collective bargaining for wages or benefits.

Every teacher I know is rabidly against Bennett. That tells me something about him.

Not every teacher.

Teachers don't like Bennett because he is implementing accountability for educators and his expansion of school choice is removing the long-held government monopoly for teaching positions.

Bennet refused to debate Ritz face to face. She wanted to debate but he would not agree to it. The reason is that he knows nothing about education, and every claim he makes is twisted or false.

If that's true, then that makes him a perfect candidate for the position since government schools don't have anything to do with education (anymore).

Public dollars for education should go to public schools and not to private schools. Wanting to close down public schools in order for Charter schools and private companies to make a profit, is not what education should be about.

Public dollars shouldn't pay for public education (damn that state constitution!) at all.

Incidentally, charter schools are still functioning public schools. They simply have the money follow the child instead of dumping it in a school/school system based on the number of tax payers residing in that district. Even the "homeschool" K12 Hoosier Academy and Connections Academy are public schools.

The power of the teachers union and their evil is the second biggest lie of all time. The first being that Satan does not exist.

Can't argue with the latter, but any union in place for publicly funded employment is an evil. Unions are inherently selfish and will eventually operate on self-preservation mode. That it becomes a competing interest in the education of children should only serve to cause more concern, not less.

But I'd argue that government monopoly over education is a bigger evil than the unions anyway.

Here's the bottom line: neither Ritz nor Bennett are responsible for the success of schools (regardless of the standard one uses for success). Those complaining that Bennett favors a top-down approach to education regulation need to stop complaining. That's what government education is. If you want free education for your children because you choose not to take responsibility for it, then that's what you get. You can't have it both ways. If you want local control, then you need to work to abolish the position. You can't have it both ways.

If one school is failing it isn't because of who holds the top spot. It's because parents, teachers, and administrators of that school are failing. And as a taxpayer, I'm livid knowing that my dollars have to be confiscated to support the education of other children. But I see murderous red with the realization that I support FAILING schools.

And if that isn't good enough for this bastion of freedom: Ritz says she's running for State Superintendent of PUBLIC INSTRUCTION. Which is why she wants to regulate home educators and bring us down to government school standards:

On September 25, 2012, the issue of homeschooling came up in a
question-and-answer forum put on by the Indiana School Board
Association and the Indiana Associate of Public School
Superintendents. At this event, Ms. Glenda Ritz, a candidate for the
Indiana Superintendent of Public Instruction, was asked, "Do you think
policy needs to be changed on homeschooling?" ...

Ms. Ritz's initial response was, "We don't have any policy on
homeschooling in Indiana." While the applause that followed this
statement may be concerning to us as homeschoolers, you have to
remember the audience of the ISBA/IAPSS forum. Most of those in
attendance at this event were public school corporation employees or
school corporation board members.

After the applause died down, Ms. Ritz went on to state "We need some
policy on homeschooling. It's actually being abused in many cases. I
have heard of students being withdrawn by their parents to take care
of an aging grandparent and getting absolutely no schooling at home.
There are no regulations at all regarding it. So, yeah, we need some
policy on homeschooling."

Ritz is a bald-faced liar. And a hypocrite to boot.

Indiana home educators are non-accredited private schools and as such are beholden to the same compulsory attendance/minimum standards laws as all private schools in Indiana. We are not regulated separately, but we are not operating independent of any oversight either.

The number of cases of homeschoolers hiding behind the FREEDOM to educate our children as we see fit is miniscule compared to the number of people who do it right (and do it better than the government schools, I might add). And it should be noted, in the interest of full disclosure, that government schools systems were pushing students out of the schools into homeschooling knowing they would not receive an education. Why would they do this? Because a drop out student is counted against graduation rates. A homeschool transfer is just that, a transfer. Removed from the count.

And let's talk about getting an education. Why does the state get to decide what constitutes an education? Shall we compare graduation rates between homeschool and government schools? The efforts to maintain the monopoly have resulted in ridiculous laws governing issuance of driver's licenses. So that kids who drop out of government schools are prohibited from getting their driver's license until age 18. Kids for whom a formal education isn't working for them are forced to remain idle (or rely on someone else to be productive) all because the state thinks it has the authority to regulate education?

Bennett isn't as good as I would like. We (homeschoolers) have gone numerous rounds with him in the past. But he's a far sight better for the taxpayer and for a parent who doesn't shrug off the education responsibility to others. Ritz doesn't care about freedom, choice, or results. She only cares about control and maintaining that government monopoly on indoctrination.

Stepping down from my soapbox now.

 

[88GT]

One more point: if education were about a profit, I dare say we'd have a far better batting average in churning out respectable, educated, and competent graduates than this assembly line approach that requires everyone to participate against his will and caters to the least common denominator in a one-size-fits-all policy.

There's a reason there are waiting lists for private/parochial schools, despite the additional financial burden it places on parents.