IMPD Patrols

[Liberty Sanders]

Nope, go back to the OP; it's about neighborhoods hiring private security to patrol because they don't think the police do it enough. The police say they don't have enough officers to do everything they're being called on to do. Marion County fire departments, for the most part, have enough manning to do what they're being asked to do, although their ambulance services are starting to be either privatized, or are being staffed by civilian EMTs/Paramedics at lower cost so that smaller staffing levels of fire fighters are needed.

Now that I think about it, a police agency with staffing issues caused by lack of money might come up with a couple alternatives if they thought "outside-the-box".

There's a concept in some parts of the country that has a great deal of potential, especially now that so many municipalities are suffering economic woes.

It is a "public safety officer" who is certified as both a police officer and a firefighter.

What I've seen of this makes sense to me. Firefighters, by necessity, spend a certain amount of down time in the firehouse, and that is in NO WAY a criticism of firefighters. It's just the system that's been in place for ages. They can't patrol for fires so they have to sit somewhere and wait for them. Necessary, but wasteful in the long run.

A combination of the two forces, with the PSO patrolling as a LEO until he's needed as a firefighter would have to result in some savings.

I realize that this system probably works a great deal better in bedroom communities than in metro areas (our roughnecks in Cincinnati, in some of their firehouses spent precious little time in the house and I'm sure it's the same here), but maybe it's worth a look.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Why not have everyone certified as a police officer? Have a reserve force of 100,000? Keep the full timers but have a very large reserve force that has surge capacity in times of emergency. We are required to have a "well regulated" militia (all males between 17 and 45). We are failing to insure that all males are self disciplined and prepared to serve. Mandatory service could change that.

This I find interesting, do you honestly think this would work?

 

[IndyGunworks]

CLS is for treating life threatening trama. end of story.

90 percent of what an EMT needs to know is systemic and diagnostic and is medical in nature not trauma.

Tell me do you know the differance between COPD and heart failure? Because you would see ALOT of it as an EMT and the treatment for one when its not will compound the issue and vise versa. I dont remember CLS teaching anything about systemic issues.

If someone tells you a list of 30 medications they are on can you identify what they are in order to make an appropriate treatment plan? or use the medications to figure out past medical history because the patient doesnt know it?

Thinking CLS is anything close to EMT training would be like putting a bandaid on a GSW, and we BOTH know thats not the way to do it.

 

[cityartisan]

Why not have everyone certified as a police officer? Have a reserve force of 100,000? Keep the full timers but have a very large reserve force that has surge capacity in times of emergency. We are required to have a "well regulated" militia (all males between 17 and 45). We are failing to insure that all males are self disciplined and prepared to serve. Mandatory service could change that."

I like this idea-but w/o keeping the full timers-fire 'em and give 'em a job cleaning the donut trays

 

[IndyGunworks]

I like this idea-but w/o keeping the full timers-fire 'em and give 'em a job cleaning the donut trays



You really need to learn what the full timers actually do. There are not very many people that would stick around long w/out pay putting up with what they put up with.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

There's a concept in some parts of the country that has a great deal of potential, especially now that so many municipalities are suffering economic woes.

It is a "public safety officer" who is certified as both a police officer and a firefighter.

What I've seen of this makes sense to me. Firefighters, by necessity, spend a certain amount of down time in the firehouse, and that is in NO WAY a criticism of firefighters. It's just the system that's been in place for ages. They can't patrol for fires so they have to sit somewhere and wait for them. Necessary, but wasteful in the long run.

A combination of the two forces, with the PSO patrolling as a LEO until he's needed as a firefighter would have to result in some savings.

I realize that this system probably works a great deal better in bedroom communities than in metro areas (our roughnecks in Cincinnati, in some of their firehouses spent precious little time in the house and I'm sure it's the same here), but maybe it's worth a look.

I've known a guy who fulfilled such a roll in Michigan. It didn't turn out terrifically well. For one thing, firefighting is a labor-intensive exercise with inherently different hazards from policing. I can see real problems with expecting a firefighter to spend four hours of heavy work putting out a building fire, then expecting him to return to a police patrol and run a footrace with a suspected burglar; most police and firefighters are strong and in good shape, but that's calling for IronMan Triathalon-type tough.

Additionally, good fire departments spend a lot of time in training and continuing education for their firefighters, as do good police departments. It would be prohibitively difficult to cram both sets of training into limited time between shifts (these police/firefighters typically worked an 8 hour shift as I recall).

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Why not have everyone certified as a police officer? Have a reserve force of 100,000? Keep the full timers but have a very large reserve force that has surge capacity in times of emergency. We are required to have a "well regulated" militia (all males between 17 and 45). We are failing to insure that all males are self disciplined and prepared to serve. Mandatory service could change that."

I like this idea-but w/o keeping the full timers-fire 'em and give 'em a job cleaning the donut trays

Even small towns in the Old West usually had a Sheriff or town Marshal. There is always a need for a full-time law enforcement presence; the over-plentitude of our criminal code would demand that, if nothing else.

 

[cosermann]

Sounds like the free market applied to public safety; those in more dangerous areas pay more, those in less dangerous areas pay less.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Sounds like the free market applied to public safety; those in more dangerous areas pay more, those in less dangerous areas pay less.

The old "protection racket", except that individuals or neighborhoods could hire security companies to patrol their homes/neighborhoods. Perhaps they could go through insurance agencies as intermediaries, in which various neighborhood organizations could contract with insurance companies, who would, in turn, hire private security companies to patrol, leaving a much smaller number of police free to patrol major streets, control traffic, investigate crime, etc.

 

[IndyGunworks]

The problem being the communities that can afford such a thing, are not really the ones that would benefit/need the extra patrols.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Why not have everyone certified as a police officer? Have a reserve force of 100,000? Keep the full timers but have a very large reserve force that has surge capacity in times of emergency. We are required to have a "well regulated" militia (all males between 17 and 45). We are failing to insure that all males are self disciplined and prepared to serve. Mandatory service could change that.

You think people ***** about police states now, everyone being a certified police officer will make the world explode.

And too many gun owners are complaining on the treatment by IMPD. If you give the office you CCW permit then you are treated like a criminal. IMPD seems to have a policy of mandatory handcuffing and humiliation of anyone who is not a police officer. While I am supportive of police against the anti cops in Indy, IMPD could help the situation by treating gun owners with more respect.

Do you have statistics to back up your assumptions? You don't know **** about me or any of the people I work with, but you "heard" about IMPD so you're jumping on the bandwagon.

This is much like the unoffical policy of NYPD to shoot any black man with a gun, even if he is a cop. Which is why so many cops wave their badge above their head when other cops arrive. There is an impression that cops tend to be heavy handed with the public. LAPD started that trend.

And if society was to be disarmed, police in the US would be even more heavy handed. Americans tend to be bullies.

You sure do know a lot about policing. Next time I have a rookie to train I'll call you and have you sit in the back seat so he can get the training he needs, not what IMPD wants him to have.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I like this idea-but w/o keeping the full timers-fire 'em and give 'em a job cleaning the donut trays

Pure genius. Mayor Ballard's suggestion line is 327-4MAC (327-4622 if you are confused). Call him and tell him about that plan, I'm sure he'll appreciate it.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Pure genius. Mayor Ballard's suggestion line is 327-4MAC (327-4622 if you are confused). Call him and tell him about that plan, I'm sure he'll appreciate it.

I appreciate you're letting off steam, but, really, Mayor Ballard is smarter than that and I think you know it.

 

[Doug]

Gee, the original question was, "Does the presence of private security affect how often IMPD patrols in an area?"

We've gone around Robin Hood's barn several times, but it seems the answer is that IMPD doesn't really do neighborhood patrols much at all.
(Calling down to the station to ask for extra vigilance would seem to be a wasted call.)

So, since neighborhood don't occur with any regularity, private security would seem to have no effect on them.

Stay safe.

 

[Trooper]

You think people ***** about police states now, everyone being a certified police officer will make the world explode.



Do you have statistics to back up your assumptions? You don't know **** about me or any of the people I work with, but you "heard" about IMPD so you're jumping on the bandwagon.



You sure do know a lot about policing. Next time I have a rookie to train I'll call you and have you sit in the back seat so he can get the training he needs, not what IMPD wants him to have.

Ask SGT Steve Duell. He was my 1st Sergeant during Desert Storm. Plus I have a number of friends in IMPD.

IMPD has problems, too many guys on a power trip. But then half of any academy class will be gone in 5 years. The real training for cops is done by their TAC officer. If the TAC is corrupt, good chance the recruit will pick bad habits. That first year is whether a cop learns it right or wrong. And too many IMPD officers have power issues. It may be the IMPD is too big and needs to be split into several agencies along township lines.

But then the average cop in Indiana tended to have played high school football or baseball (bunch of jocks, especially off duty). They become police because they miss the feeling of being on a team.

All I ask is that I be respected by police officers. To not be pushed around or treated like ****. Too many gun owners now feel that way.

But then I work for government. If I get mistreated, I can bring a world of hurt via the system. Too many buddies who are now high up in IMPD, MCSD or ISP.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Ask SGT Steve Duell. He was my 1st Sergeant during Desert Storm. Plus I have a number of friends in IMPD.

IMPD has problems, too many guys on a power trip. But then half of any academy class will be gone in 5 years. The real training for cops is done by their TAC officer. If the TAC is corrupt, good chance the recruit will pick bad habits. That first year is whether a cop learns it right or wrong. And too many IMPD officers have power issues. It may be the IMPD is too big and needs to be split into several agencies along township lines.

But then the average cop in Indiana tended to have played high school football or baseball (bunch of jocks, especially off duty). They become police because they miss the feeling of being on a team.

All I ask is that I be respected by police officers. To not be pushed around or treated like ****. Too many gun owners now feel that way.

But then I work for government. If I get mistreated, I can bring a world of hurt via the system. Too many buddies who are now high up in IMPD, MCSD or ISP.

Sounds like you have made your opinion out of the opinion of others more than you are speaking from actual experience with IMPD.

My experiences with them differ tremendously.


" I can bring a world of hurt via the system."

Who has the power issues?

 

[Denny347]

I appreciate you're letting off steam, but, really, Mayor Ballard is smarter than that and I think you know it.

I actually think he is a very nice man, intelligent, and honest. But I think he relies too much on the people around him (he has a hands off approach) to run the city. He is in over his head, and according to very reliable sources, he cannot admit when he is wrong.

 

[Denny347]

Ask SGT Steve Duell. He was my 1st Sergeant during Desert Storm. Plus I have a number of friends in IMPD.I know Steve

IMPD has problems, too many guys on a power trip. But then half of any academy class will be gone in 5 years. That is no where near true.

The real training for cops is done by their TAC officer. What the hell is a "TAC" officer? If the TAC is corrupt, good chance the recruit will pick bad habits. That first year is whether a cop learns it right or wrong. And too many IMPD officers have power issues. And your OPINION is based on what? Research into "power issues"?It may be the IMPD is too big and needs to be split into several agencies along township lines.

But then the average cop in Indiana tended to have played high school football or baseball (bunch of jocks, especially off duty). They become police because they miss the feeling of being on a team.I played (actually still do) soccer but most kids do play team sports at one time or another, proves nothing.

All I ask is that I be respected by police officers. To not be pushed around or treated like ****. Too many gun owners now feel that way.All humans require dignity and you shall be treated as such. However, based on your assumptions here, I don't see you getting much respect.

But then I work for government. If I get mistreated, I can bring a world of hurt via the system. Too many buddies who are now high up in IMPD, MCSD or ISP.Ha, if I had a dime for every time someone said that to me...haha. Welcome to the club. Many of us have "friends" in "high places". Big deal. It really means little to us street level guys.

The fact that you brag about "friends in high places" usually points to "no friends in high places". Those who have them don't brag. Those that THINK they have them, do.

 

[cityartisan]

Pure genius. Mayor Ballard's suggestion line is 327-4MAC (327-4622 if you are confused). Call him and tell him about that plan, I'm sure he'll appreciate it.

 

[cityartisan]

"Why not have everyone certified as a police officer? Have a reserve force of 100,000? Keep the full timers but have a very large reserve force that has surge capacity in times of emergency. We are required to have a "well regulated" militia (all males between 17 and 45). We are failing to insure that all males are self disciplined and prepared to serve. Mandatory service could change that."

I like this idea-but w/o keeping the full timers-fire 'em and give 'em a job cleaning the donut trays

Even small towns in the Old West usually had a Sheriff or town Marshal. There is always a need for a full-time law enforcement presence; the over-plentitude of our criminal code would demand that, if nothing else.

I was joking of course about the donut trays but i thought the point was well made about getting back to basics-a round the clock citizens patrol-basically get set up to take care of ourselves w/o all the politics and BS-now about what to do w/all these paid guys...