IMPD Patrols

[Denny347]

Why not have a larger reserve force made up of normal private citizens? Why do we need paid cops?

There is no one beating down our door to do this job for free. Free doesn't pay the bills and we all have bills. Are we all not "normal private citizens"?

 

[the1kidd03]

Trust me folks...What these guys are telling you is true.

I also worked in a large metro police department big on professional sports. The government will poormouth when it comes to police & fire, but if the professional sports teams want something, they get it.

We had a perfectly good stadium torn down and a new one built because the Bengals threatened to leave town if they didn't get it. MILLIONS in overruns. A few years later they were threatening to lay off cops.

This would be a good time for Indy government officials to remind people that this is a concealed carry state and that if more people carried there'd be less crime.

Watch me...I'm holding my breath now waiting for them to do that....

I've told people just that for years.

The funny thing is, that whenever someone DOES try to do some good in this endeavor the media smears it in SOME sort of bad light. Thus striking fear in the hearts of the "pro-gun sheeple" and making them unwilling to get out there and do any good for their community such as that "Occupy Broad Ripple with Guns" event last year. Started off with a good idea to help a community to start taking their safety seriously and their own responsibility for it, only for the whole thing to get smeared in 15 different BS directions and ruin an otherwise good cause.

 

[Loco179]

Nothing more than a shake down.

 

[VUPDblue]

Nothing more than a shake down.

LOL WUT

 

[IndyGunworks]

Why not have a larger reserve force made up of normal private citizens? Why do we need paid cops? As someone who has been a military reservist, it is your reserve force that holds things together. They also tie the fulltimers back into the community.

if we ever go to mandatory military service, police and fire duty should also be an option. After two years of military duty in the National Guard (MPs) it should be optional to serve as a police or fire reservist. That way we would have millions serving but still part of the community.

What the hell does an MP know about firefighting?

 

[Classic Liberal]

What the hell does an MP know about firefighting?

Not sure about the other branches of military, but Navy personnel go through basic firefighting training in boot camp and continues once stationed on ship. I know the Airforce and especially the Navy have excellent training and career paths.

 

[Walt K.]

Protection of your loved ones, your property, and yourself is an individual responsibility.

 

[MrsGungho]

Protection of your loved ones, your property, and yourself is an individual responsibility.

I believe you are preaching to the choir for the most part here. However, don't you just hate that "however", much of the population out there don't agree with you. Last week we had a thread here about someones daughter stalled out in high water and was trying to wave someone from IMPD down... IMPD doesn't have the man power to answer all the calls but they sure caught heck for not helping her get out of the flooded water.

 

[Walt K.]

I believe you are preaching to the choir for the most part here. However, don't you just hate that "however", much of the population out there don't agree with you. Last week we had a thread here about someones daughter stalled out in high water and was trying to wave someone from IMPD down... IMPD doesn't have the man power to answer all the calls but they sure caught heck for not helping her get out of the flooded water.

Yep... yet I am still forced to subsidize them.

It is also disgusting that a citizen passing by would not stop to help the woman in need.

 

[Classic Liberal]

Yep... yet I am still forced to subsidize them.

It is also disgusting that a citizen passing by would not stop to help the woman in need.

It is also disturbing that a non citizen passing by would not stop to help the woman in need.

 

[Walt K.]

It is also disturbing that a non citizen passing by would not stop to help the woman in need.

Indeed.

 

[Classic Liberal]

Sorry, I'm sometimes quite the smartass.

 

[Walt K.]

I have yet to find a smartass that is correct to be offensive.

 

[semperfi211]

Trust me folks...What these guys are telling you is true.

I also worked in a large metro police department big on professional sports. The government will poormouth when it comes to police & fire, but if the professional sports teams want something, they get it.

We had a perfectly good stadium torn down and a new one built because the Bengals threatened to leave town if they didn't get it. MILLIONS in overruns. A few years later they were threatening to lay off cops.

This would be a good time for Indy government officials to remind people that this is a concealed carry state and that if more people carried there'd be less crime.

Watch me...I'm holding my breath now waiting for them to do that....

I agree with you, except for "concealed".

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

First, thank you to all the law enforcement out there who are busting their butts to help folks and enforce the law.

Second, I will be one of the first to gripe, scream and complain when I see civil liberties violated, but that is against the "event" and not the profession.

Third, a big problem can be that our entire system, whether we like it or not, is intertwined. Robbed? Try getting insurance to cover your losses without a police report. Car accident? Try getting insurance to cover your loss without a police report.

Our entire system is based upon a series of checks and balances without which getting simple tasks accomplished can be much harder than it needs to be.

We could do with less law enforcement if we had less crimes. Regrettably such is not the case. Legalize prostitution and you need less police. Legalize marijuana and you need less police. Decriminalize public intoxication and you need less police.

The sad fact is that most politicians won't do these things, so the resources we have are spread thinner than they can maintain with any degree of efficiency because certain groups of citizens want their particular issues dealt with as a "top priority."

Imagine the hypothetical: You get into a fist fight at a local eating / drinking establishment. The other chap starts it and swings first. You break the other chaps nose and you win. Congratulations. Police were called but never arrived and you both walk away. Pass two (2) weeks and you are served with notice that you are being sued by the other chap who claims he cannot smell right and is suffering permanent damage. If you go to court now it is you v/s him. Without a police report things are a lot more dicey. He may be a better talker. He may be more charming than you and without that unbiased police report to tell the jury that he started it things become very chancy.

The fact is every time we go into court most lawyers will tell you it is a dangerous thing. However, good guys can be much better protected with the police testifying on their side than without.

Does everyone need to take cuts in hard times? Sure, of course. But then demands need to be cut as well. It is a shame that this does not happen.

Regards,

Doug

 

[dswilson]

There is no one beating down our door to do this job for free. Free doesn't pay the bills and we all have bills. Are we all not "normal private citizens"?

Denny hit the nail on the head with this one. IANALEO but a Volunteer FF/ EMT and Fire Instructor. In my world the amount of people interested in serving their community for free is decreasing every year. We still get a few people every year that show up but usually run away fast when they are told what the training requirements are. The days of mayberry RFD are long over. Tell a person that on top of their FT job that before they can even respond on an emergency run that they are going to be spending around 20 hours a week for 6 months going to class to earn the certifications that are required then at least 6 hours a week after that just to maintain their training they usually aren't interested. And who can blame them? I personally would have loved to have spent the 9 hours I was away from my family saturday with them instead of doing hands on training for the recruits in my current class. I am all for safety and training but it seems every year the .gov piles on more mandatory training.

What the hell does an MP know about firefighting?

Very little. But they CAN be trained. I have found Military veterans to be very receptive to training.

Not sure about the other branches of military, but Navy personnel go through basic firefighting training in boot camp and continues once stationed on ship. I know the Airforce and especially the Navy have excellent training and career paths.

Funny you say that. I have a recruit in my current class who was an air force Firefighter. He is good to go on how to open a nozzle but when I started talking about Fire behavior he got one of these looks on his face. I did a research paper on fire streams years ago and used US Navy methods as a reference. I ams sure That military Fire training is great for their situations Structural Firefighting in the civilian world is a different matter altogether.

 

[SSGSAD]

Buck stops with him. We've hired 17 officer in 3 years but have lost close to 100 with another 30 or so leaving in Jan. In fact, because they will not hire, we are below Federally mandated staffing and the city has to repay the 3.8 million dollars given to us that we used to hire officers with several years ago. There are no plans to hire in 2013 either. The administration is telling the news that we will have to do more with less. We are at dangerously low levels of officers on patrol and it's going to get worse. We are being forced to do less with less. But Vaughn seems unconcerned. They are clueless.

Sounds like the Military .....
We, the UNwilling,
Led by the UNknowing,
doing the UNnecessary,
for the UNgrateful.....

WE have done so much, for so long, with so little, WE are NOW QUALIFIED, to do ANYTHING, with NOTHING .....

 

[88GT]

Um, it's more like 350 to 400 officers actually patrolling. Fact of the matter is that the VAST majority of tax payers look to us for protection and we bust our butts trying to provide it. Sure in a perfect world every one will take care of themselves. But how YOU'D like it to be is NOT how it really is. Burglary in progress? Hey, deal with it yourself. Even if you are not at home. Robberies, not my problem. You see someone driving off in your car? Go run after them and call us when you get them, we don't need to go looking for it. Husband beating wife? People fighting, as long as it's not me why would I care? It's not as much that we need MORE money but the money we did get was wasted by an inept leadership. And that ends at Ballard's feet. How about the 30 million dollar east district rollcall/homeland security building at the old Eastgate Mall. IT"S NOT EVEN HALF FINISHED!! No soap, no toilet paper, a crater filled parking lot, girls at the front desk getting sick (possibly from the construction dust created by the construction on the other half of the building. The front reception area is not secure like our old rollcall and so no one can walk in and ask for help like the old one. Entire sections of the interior set up for detectives had no power or internet connection to hook their computers up to do work...they run extension cords. It will never be finished. We never asked for this nor needed it. Millions WASTED and Ballard could either care less or knew so little that he was in the dark. But hey, what would you know about this other than what is spoon fed to you in the media? We are just a bunch of complainers because nothing is wrong and all will be fine. It just truly shows how little the public knows about what we do and how we do it.

I'd be on board with this a little bit more if the other part of the conversation wasn't LE telling the civvies not to take matters into their own hands.

You can't have it both ways. You can't complain about a job description that requires more manpower than you have access to while simultaneously telling people that they can't handle certain things for themselves. And by certain things, I mean all things that might potentially require the presence of LE. Though to be fair, I shouldn't be placing the blame on LE entirely. There are plenty of people even here who criticize homeowners for "clearing" a home when suspicious circumstances exist. So should I "waste" LE time and resources to come check my house because I found the back door open when I came home because my kids didn't get it latched and the wind blew it open?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

There is no one beating down our door to do this job for free. Free doesn't pay the bills and we all have bills. Are we all not "normal private citizens"?

LEOs, 9/11 and subsequent events turned you, in the public mind, from "pigs" and "JBTs" into instant "heroes" and, while the first two epithets were undeserved, the "hero" appellation hasn't always been deserved either. (Keep in mind that I was in Public Safety working with policemen and firefighters and medical folks during all this time, and I have no particular bone to pick with any of you.)

As I have reason to know, IPD/IMPD got much of what they were asking for every year subsequent to 9/11/2001, especially in terms of equipment and training. Yes, like the fire service, you've been caught in a retirement bubble that most of you folks have known was coming for some time. Either you didn't make your future needs known or, like your Public Safety superiors, you ignored those needs for pay raises and other benefits in the present, presuming that the government would find a way to get more money to support you in "the style to which you had become accustomed."

Just as the Public has had to get by with less money since this [STRIKE]Depression[/STRIKE] Recession set in, you folks are going to have to give something up if you want more money available to hire new bodies to replace the ones who've retired. And just like you're going to have to learn to work with fewer bodies on the street for the time being, the Public is going to have to learn to put up with the inconvenience - or they're going to have to ante up more of THEIR dough to keep your numbers up. I'm betting you're going to be short-handed.

 

[Trooper]

No, thats why most of us didn't vote for her. The Republican made it sound like he wouldn't screw us over.



Yep, thats how I roll. No criminals out and about on late shift, I go after the honest, hardworking citizens that are on their way to/from work or just picking up some medicine for their sick kid.



Reserve cops have full-time jobs and only have to work 16 hours a month to maintain certification. Who is going to cover the other ~704 hours?

Why not have everyone certified as a police officer? Have a reserve force of 100,000? Keep the full timers but have a very large reserve force that has surge capacity in times of emergency. We are required to have a "well regulated" militia (all males between 17 and 45). We are failing to insure that all males are self disciplined and prepared to serve. Mandatory service could change that.

And too many gun owners are complaining on the treatment by IMPD. If you give the office you CCW permit then you are treated like a criminal. IMPD seems to have a policy of mandatory handcuffing and humiliation of anyone who is not a police officer. While I am supportive of police against the anti cops in Indy, IMPD could help the situation by treating gun owners with more respect.

This is much like the unoffical policy of NYPD to shoot any black man with a gun, even if he is a cop. Which is why so many cops wave their badge above their head when other cops arrive. There is an impression that cops tend to be heavy handed with the public. LAPD started that trend.

And if society was to be disarmed, police in the US would be even more heavy handed. Americans tend to be bullies.