Illegal to play live music in Indiana without a permit from IN Homeland Security

[Kirk Freeman]

You still haven't addressed how your "meye say-feety" school of nannyism addresses probable cause and warrants. Probably because you know that your little inspections completely roll over those rights.

LOL, what are you talking about?

Really, it's just getting silly now. Probable cause/warrants for what?

 

[rambone]

LOL, what are you talking about?

Really, it's just getting silly now. Probable cause/warrants for what?

For the search. Is it no longer a search if the bureaucrat is holding a clipboard? What if bureaucrats were forcing their way into your house, wanting to "inspect". You have a DUTY to keep everyone safe Kirk. LET US IN. MEYE SAFEEETY.

 

[rambone]

One of my pro-freedom friends shared this with me today. Kind of coincidental but it fits right into this thread. A new movie about sci-fi property rights.

Kirk, is that you in the shiny white hat?

[video=youtube;Mv_Rl0CBPNs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv_Rl0CBPNs[/video]

 

[hornadylnl]

Don't complain Carmel residents if the proposed range gets stopped. The citizens retain the right to decide a desirable use of your property.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

For the search. Is it no longer a search if the bureaucrat is holding a clipboard?

You think this is a criminal matter?

You want me to go over administrative searches?

What if bureaucrats were forcing their way into your house, wanting to "inspect".

My house? What am I doing in my house? Running a business or just living there? I ask them to leave and call the police if they do not leave.

I've had bureaucrats over to the house twice. Once to inspect the electrical upgrade and once to inspect the new curbs and sidewalks that I had poured.

They call me, we set up a time, I show them what they need to see. They may measure or shine a flashlight in the circuit box, or in the case of the city engineer and my curbs, not even get out of the truck.

 

[foszoe]

Don't complain Carmel residents if the proposed range gets stopped. The citizens retain the right to decide a desirable use of your property.

In your world view, how does a property owner keep a windmill farm or land fill from appearing on adjacent property? I am sure thats a popular question you are asked, and look forward to your response.

 

[hornadylnl]

In your world view, how does a property owner keep a windmill farm or land fill from appearing on adjacent property? I am sure thats a popular question you are asked, and look forward to your response.

In your world view, how do you have the power to prevent a windmill farm or landfill from appearing on adjacent property but other property owners don't have the power to prevent you from putting up a range on your property? I look forward to your answer.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You have a DUTY to keep everyone safe Kirk.

You have a duty of general care, correct, we all do. Just like when you are driving your car but this is basic. What is your point?

 

[foszoe]

In your world view, how do you have the power to prevent a windmill farm or landfill from appearing on adjacent property but other property owners don't have the power to prevent you from putting up a range on your property? I look forward to your answer.

I don't know is my answer. I couldn't quite read yours. Perhaps your post was incomplete?

 

[hornadylnl]

I don't know is my answer. I couldn't quite read yours. Perhaps your post was incomplete?

I'm sick to death of hearing people who want to control the property use of others whining when others want to control their property.

If I want others to be tolerant of the things I do on my property, maybe, just maybe I need to tolerate how they use their property.

To think that I can't dictate to others what they can or can't do on their property while they have no say in mine is the height of hypocrisy. If your neighbor can't build a wind farm because you don't want it, you can't build a range if your neighbor doesn't want it.

 

[foszoe]

I'm sick to death of hearing people who want to control the property use of others whining when others want to control their property.

If I want others to be tolerant of the things I do on my property, maybe, just maybe I need to tolerate how they use their property.

To think that I can't dictate to others what they can or can't do on their property while they have no say in mine is the height of hypocrisy. If your neighbor can't build a wind farm because you don't want it, you can't build a range if your neighbor doesn't want it.

Does that mean your answer is that if your neighbor does something you don't approve of, such as building windmills or a landfill, then your recourse is to either live with it or move?

 

[churchmouse]

Does that mean your answer is that if your neighbor does something you don't approve of, such as building windmills or a landfill, then your recourse is to either live with it or move?

I see the point the horned one is making. To use a landfill as response is a bit of a push yes. Junk yards and land fills have to jump through all the EPA hoops before they go to council. Then the area residents have a chance to get involved as there are legal and environmental issues to deal with so these are not good to use in this case.

I set no edict on my neighbors if they keep their property up to area standards. If you live in a community as we do there is a responsibility to the other folks to keep up as to maintenance etc for value. In some areas it is code...in others it is honorable at least.

In the country...it is your land. JMHO.

 

[foszoe]

I see the point the horned one is making. To use a landfill as response is a bit of a push yes. Junk yards and land fills have to jump through all the EPA hoops before they go to council. Then the area residents have a chance to get involved as there are legal and environmental issues to deal with so these are not good to use in this case.

I set no edict on my neighbors if they keep their property up to area standards. If you live in a community as we do there is a responsibility to the other folks to keep up as to maintenance etc for value. In some areas it is code...in others it is honorable at least.

In the country...it is your land. JMHO.

Perhaps, but that would mean HornadyLNL supports EPA rules and regs. I would suspect he doesn't, but I will let him speak for himself. I do wish he would entertain a straight conversation without hyperbole, but blanket statements or incisive comments overshadow most of what he has to say. That goes for most of the prolific lib posters here. Perhaps they, due to their interpretation of their posting history here, assume that if someone has a question that also means it has an agenda.

 

[hornadylnl]

Does that mean your answer is that if your neighbor does something you don't approve of, such as building windmills or a landfill, then your recourse is to either live with it or move?

Perhaps, but that would mean HornadyLNL supports EPA rules and regs. I would suspect he doesn't, but I will let him speak for himself. I do wish he would entertain a straight conversation without hyperbole, but blanket statements or incisive comments overshadow most of what he has to say. That goes for most of the prolific lib posters here. Perhaps they, due to their interpretation of their posting history here, assume that if someone has a question that also means it has an agenda.

So I have to be a liberal? Way to make a valid argument.

To answer your question, no I don't support the NIMBY mindset. Landfills have to go somewhere don't they? Are we going to blast our trash to outer space so that nobody has to have the misfortune of living near a landfill? Is the landfill polluting my water supply or having trash blown into my property? If yes, there is demonstrable damage against me and I can take it to court. If the only damage is to my sensibilities, than tough **** to me. Who am I to say that they can't put a landfill next to me so somebody else should be stuck with it?

A few years ago, the landowner next door spread dried chicken ****. The smell and flies were atrocious for several days. That's part of country living. I didn't call anyone to complain about it. I leave that farmer alone and he leaves me alone. I guess it's a concept the city folks don't understand.

 

[steveh_131]

You have a duty of general care, correct, we all do. Just like when you are driving your car but this is basic. What is your point?

Please define 'duty of general care'. Is this basically the duty to not cause damage to the people or property around you?

Or is it a duty to pro-actively do other things, decided by the collective, to mitigate risk?

If it is the former, then I agree. If it is the latter, then I don't agree. Why do I have this 'duty'? And don't give me your typical 'it's the status quo' argument. I know it's the status quo of our legal system. That doesn't mean it's good. Why is it better to require nanny state legislation of our behaviors than to just handle liability when people or property are damaged?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Please define 'duty of general care'. Is this basically the duty to not cause damage to the people or property around you?

Right, you got it. Duty to maintain proper lookout, duty not to throw angry wolverines at pedestrians, etc.

 

[hornadylnl]

Right, you got it. Duty to maintain proper lookout, duty not to throw angry wolverines at pedestrians, etc.

Then why do concert venues deserve an extra level of regulations than a range owner does?

 

[onetwoonetwo]

wow, can't even put on rock show anymore. sad. just sad.

 

[churchmouse]

Perhaps, but that would mean HornadyLNL supports EPA rules and regs. I would suspect he doesn't, but I will let him speak for himself. I do wish he would entertain a straight conversation without hyperbole, but blanket statements or incisive comments overshadow most of what he has to say. That goes for most of the prolific lib posters here. Perhaps they, due to their interpretation of their posting history here, assume that if someone has a question that also means it has an agenda.

I was not pointing that statement at anyone. It is just the way the world works these days. The EPA is omnipresent in everyone's life like it or not.
My point was a neighbor to such an issue would get involved as part of the process. Same with a wind farm.

 

[churchmouse]

wow, can't even put on rock show anymore. sad. just sad.

It is a revenue stream.............Period.