Illegal to play live music in Indiana without a permit from IN Homeland Security

[Bunnykid68]

I wonder if anyone associated with the bus crash in Indianapolis tonight will say anything about the owners of the bus having a duty of care?



Maybe the passengers will get their money back? Despite their open and obvious neglect to inspect the bus before getting on it.

Well, maybe in the insurance company lawyers are lucky there will be an INGO-heavy jury pool.

You are assuming something was wrong with the bus

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You are assuming something was wrong with the bus

Ummm, yeah, "the brakes, the brakes, something was wrong with the brakes." No assumption, they call that evidence.

Look for the witness statement of Duane Lloyd, a tall African-American male in a white shirt, he drove through just before the accident and heard the driver complain of brake failure.

No doubt IMPD should talk to the passengers as they should have inspected the bus. Maybe the passengers can tell IMPD the condition of the brakes.

Skip to 1:15 in this video:

Three killed, several injured in Indianapolis bus crash - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

 

[rambone]

It says a lot about a man's worldview when every tragedy strikes him as a shortage of government.

 

[rambone]

 

[Kirk Freeman]

It says a lot about a man's worldview when every tragedy strikes him as a shortage of government.

In opposition to horn, I do not believe government inspections even of common carriers is the solution to this tragedy.

However, I can gar-ron-tee you that there will be all kinds of discussions over duty of care of the bus company. It exists no matter what L. Neil Smith is whispering in your ear.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Ummm, yeah, "the brakes, the brakes, something was wrong with the brakes." No assumption, they call that evidence.

Look for the witness statement of Duane Lloyd, a tall African-American male in a white shirt, he drove through just before the accident and heard the driver complain of brake failure.

No doubt IMPD should talk to the passengers as they should have inspected the bus. Maybe the passengers can tell IMPD the condition of the brakes.

Skip to 1:15 in this video:

Three killed, several injured in Indianapolis bus crash - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

Fair enough, didnt see that in the article

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Now that's funny!

(Because it's so true)

 

[rambone]

In opposition to horn, I do not believe government inspections even of common carriers is the solution to this tragedy.

However, I can gar-ron-tee you that there will be all kinds of discussions over duty of care of the bus company. It exists no matter what L. Neil Smith is whispering in your ear.

Lawsuits between private parties are not the same thing as government permits.

And since you claim to not support regulating the vehicle maintenance, I'm not really seeing what it has to do with this thread.

 

[foszoe]

Lawsuits between private parties are not the same thing as government permits.

And since you claim to not support regulating the vehicle maintenance, I'm not really seeing what it has to do with this thread.

I saw it as a direct response to HornadyLNL advocating for vehicular inspections by the government.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Lawsuits between private parties are not the same thing as government permits.

But can be far more burdensome to property owners than government permits.

Lawsuit between private parties are all about duties to each other.

 

[churchmouse]

I witnessed a terrible crash several years ago and had to testify as to what I saw and it involved the brakes on a coal hauling semi. It had brake failure and that was a key to the lawsuit. People died in that incident.

 

[hornadylnl]

In opposition to horn, I do not believe government inspections even of common carriers is the solution to this tragedy.

However, I can gar-ron-tee you that there will be all kinds of discussions over duty of care of the bus company. It exists no matter what L. Neil Smith is whispering in your ear.

I like Kirk logic.

A restaurant owner in Indiana should be required to have regular fire inspections because of a concert fire that happened 10 years ago in Rhode Island.

Private range regulations aren't needed because a tragedy hasn't happened yet.

One is much more likely to be killed by a vehicle in poor mechanical condition than in a concert fire but I'm indifferent about vehicle inspections.

 

[foszoe]

I like Kirk logic.

A restaurant owner in Indiana should be required to have regular fire inspections because of a concert fire that happened 10 years ago in Rhode Island.

Private range regulations aren't needed because a tragedy hasn't happened yet.

One is much more likely to be killed by a vehicle in poor mechanical condition than in a concert fire but I'm indifferent about vehicle inspections.

According to the stats I see, you are on shaky ground with that statement.

Chances of dying

1/108 fire, smoke deaths.
1/1419 motor vehicle, all causes.

Subtract out the impaired driver, (~45%), Distracted Driver (33%) as causes of accidents and those numbers start to close up substantially.

Where did you get your info?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

What seems to be lost here is scope and context. Even the most vocal opposition to this matter, on other threads, have stated they support government involvement/oversight/enforcement on certain issues they think are important. In my view, it's not so much that states and local governments set up inspectors and enact regulations for building standards, etc...it's that they may be used in an unfair manner or that power hungry or vengeful officials may use them in ways they were not intended; also they tend to grow in invasiveness and tend to know not when enough is enough.

It is common (and a good thing) for people to learn from others' mistakes. City wide fires in places like Chicago and SF, electrocutions, and building collapses result in the development of building, electrical, and fire codes that are used to prevent future loss of life and property. We've all benefitted by such developments.

When you are building a shed in the middle of your 25 acres, it is quite legitimate to question the value of some government overseer to come out and approve your work. After all, if it catches on fire, it'll likely only affect you so it's nobody else's business. Your ignorance, your poor workmanship, or your cutting of corners to save a penny or two only would affect you and the stupid prize you'd win, you'd get to enjoy all by yourself. On the other hand, if you build this same building on your 0.1 acre city lot, a fire caused by your ignorance or incompetance, has a much higher probability of affecting those around you. So what you do on your property can be somebody else's business.

Government solutions are seldom perfect. They are subject to corruption, overreach, and incompetence. The best is less. But to say it is zero is a great sounding philosophical concept, in reality it is some sort of utopian pipe-dream.

 

[hornadylnl]

According to the stats I see, you are on shaky ground with that statement.

Chances of dying

1/108 fire, smoke deaths.
1/1419 motor vehicle, all causes.

Subtract out the impaired driver, (~45%), Distracted Driver (33%) as causes of accidents and those numbers start to close up substantially.

Where did you get your info?

So I'm more likely to die in a fire at a place of business than in a vehicle? Where are all of these business fires? Is the media suppressing all these fire stories?

 

[hornadylnl]

What seems to be lost here is scope and context. Even the most vocal opposition to this matter, on other threads, have stated they support government involvement/oversight/enforcement on certain issues they think are important. In my view, it's not so much that states and local governments set up inspectors and enact regulations for building standards, etc...it's that they may be used in an unfair manner or that power hungry or vengeful officials may use them in ways they were not intended; also they tend to grow in invasiveness and tend to know not when enough is enough.

It is common (and a good thing) for people to learn from others' mistakes. City wide fires in places like Chicago and SF, electrocutions, and building collapses result in the development of building, electrical, and fire codes that are used to prevent future loss of life and property. We've all benefitted by such developments.

When you are building a shed in the middle of your 25 acres, it is quite legitimate to question the value of some government overseer to come out and approve your work. After all, if it catches on fire, it'll likely only affect you so it's nobody else's business. Your ignorance, your poor workmanship, or your cutting of corners to save a penny or two only would affect you and the stupid prize you'd win, you'd get to enjoy all by yourself. On the other hand, if you build this same building on your 0.1 acre city lot, a fire caused by your ignorance or incompetance, has a much higher probability of affecting those around you. So what you do on your property can be somebody else's business.

Government solutions are seldom perfect. They are subject to corruption, overreach, and incompetence. The best is less. But to say it is zero is a great sounding philosophical concept, in reality it is some sort of utopian pipe-dream.

My point in all these threads is that many love the power that government wields against others and they actively support it. But woe is me when I or activities I enjoy are the subject of that government power. People are arming the government with the weapons that are used against them and they don't understand that they themselves are responsible for it.

 

[foszoe]

So I'm more likely to die in a fire at a place of business than in a vehicle? Where are all of these business fires? Is the media suppressing all these fire stories?

\

Did you make up your statistic or not?

 

[Bunnykid68]

Looks like only about 3400 die in fires each year in the USA

Home Fire Prevention and Safety Tips

 

[rambone]

But can be far more burdensome to property owners than government permits.

Whatever they are, they exist with or without these government permission slips. They are an entirely separate discussion and bear no relevance to this argument.

A lawsuit between private parties is at least based on some kind of specific complaint on a specific party. Then the complaint is weighed in court based on specific evidence.

A mandatory inspection treats everyone like a criminal until they prove their innocence. It is not based on a specific complaint on a specific party. There are no warrants or probable cause. Simply based on their mere existence, they are extorted of money and forced into being subjected to a warrantless search.

These shenanigans are unconstitutional, anti-capitalist, and undermine free markets. Licenses exist to extort money and suppress competition from the market on a political whim.

 

[hornadylnl]

\

Did you make up your statistic or not?

What relevance does your statistics have to the OP of this thread? Do more people die in concert fires than vehicles? You can cherry pick any statistic you want.

If one is so concerned about the dangers of a concert venue catching fire while music is played that they want to invoke government force, I'd think one would be equally concerned about vehicle maintenance compliance. You can't drive your jalopywookiesmithmissleofdeath down the road endangering others.