If you are asked to leave, do you have to pay?

[Bang-bang]

"If I were confronted before finished eating, forget it" (ditto)

I would only hand the server cash as a tip. unless they were the cause , then it's "Bless your heart" and smile, and LEAVE ASAP.

 

[Ripper]

Pay and tip, show them you are a person of good character........even over tip.

Just because someone was a douche bag doesn't give you or anyone else the right to be one also.

 

[indytechnerd]

If I'm asked to leave, I'm walking. I probably won't engage anyone in conversation about it. Personally, if the management is of the opinion that they don't want me in their establishment, then they don't want the money I'd spend there, either. Any 'contractual interest' has been terminated on their part prior to what would be reasonably construed as the logical ending to the 'contract'.

 

[jgreiner]

I would agree.. You still ate THE FOOD, and thats what your paying for...

I too, have no idea on the legalities. I worked as an assistant kitchen manager, and have never heard of someone getting in trouble for ditching the check, happened all the time.

I am going to disagree a bit. Part of the dining out experience is the ambiance of just going to a restaurant. They are removing that part of the experience.

With that said, I would pay, but I would make it clear that not only would I not be back, but that I would inform other right to carry folks about their policy and warn them away.

 

[jgreiner]

Anyone that wouldn't tip a server because of something their restaurant asked you to do is absolutely out of line. These people rely on tips, sometimes that is the only job they are able to get.

It makes me sick to think that just because you are trying to prove a point, you may be taking it out on an innocent bystander? There are enough difficult people out there, why not show the world that gun owners and carriers are classy people. I get it, you don't want your rights infringed upon, but Lord almighty that server (if they had nothing to do with it) cannot help what their company policy is or what their manager does.

I agree with this. A waitress or waiter is not who will get you removed, it will be a manager or an owner. Why should they be punished for something beyond their control?

 

[Hdfb03]

I agree with this. A waitress or waiter is not who will get you removed, it will be a manager or an owner. Why should they be punished for something beyond their control?

Too many poeple are quick to blame the wrong poeple, just becuase they work at a place that doesnt allow guns, doesnt mean they have the same mindset.

 

[Dragon]

I am going to disagree a bit. Part of the dining out experience is the ambiance of just going to a restaurant. They are removing that part of the experience.

With that said, I would pay, but I would make it clear that not only would I not be back, but that I would inform other right to carry folks about their policy and warn them away.

If you get your food to go, is the price still the same?

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

This is on its face very simple, yet with the number of variables involved transforms into a very difficult question.

How was I approached?

Who approached me?

In what manner and tone was I addressed?

What was I doing at the restaurant?

I cannot say how I would respond unless all variables were answered. I would be more inclined to pay for the meal the farther I was into it, unless other variables intervened.

For those who automatically responded "yes, pay" would it matter if it were your celebrating your 10th wedding anniversary you were out for? All of a sudden halfway through the meal you and your wife were told you must leave because we don't want guns in here? What if it was your son or daughters birthday party? Or what if you were looking forward to dessert and now wouldn't have any/

I think the kneejerk response was moral and noble, yet overlooked some potential mitigating factors that make a meal more than just injesting nutrients for bodily function.

I learned when I backpacked through Europe that a meal was an experience - from the moment I sit to the moment I depart. Of course there are times I am just there to "grab some grub, stuff my face" and leave, but that is not often.

What if it was the waitress that complained? Would we tip the waitress for ruining our meal? I don't think so but that is just me.

I also tend to believe that if the Boss does things to drive off customers then perhaps the employees need to begin looking for alternative employment elsewhere.

Presuming it was not the waitress that caused any issues I would tip for the service so far, but it would not be the entire tip. My tip is appreciation for service that HAS been rendered, not what might have been. Caveat: If I eat there regularly and know the waitress then this does not apply.

I would be less likely to pay during dinner (or supper) compared to lunch. For me the last meal of the day is truly one if I am eating out where I want to sit down, relax and enjoy the experience of the meal and not just the food. Lunch is less so.

Maybe I over analyze. Way too many variables for me to think of.

I just got done with lunch. Home for thick sliced BACON, and eggs over easy on toast. All I need now is a nap.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Beau]

Only a complete idiot would give a tip.

Id pay for the meal and tell em se ya!!!

Jimmy

Why? It's not the waitress or waiters fault that their restaurant has a dumb policy. Why make them suffer?

If I ate it I'll pay for it. If I'm a few bites into the meal I'll not pay but still tip the waitress/waiter.

 

[Hdfb03]

Also, a lot of restaurants will make servers pay for meals that are skipped out on. I understand they would have asked you to leave, but they still may make that server pay for the meal.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Imagine this vignette:

After having been seated, taken off my coat, been given menus and time to look them over, had my order taken and been served, the manager notices my personal protection sidearm and orders the waitress to run the corporate script on me...

"Excuse me ma'am? We here at Lenny's would really rather you leave your gun in your car."

"But I didn't... and what's more, I never will."

"We here at Lenny's have a strict no weapons policy."

"Really? I didn't see any sign posted conspicuously where it is likely to come to the attention of the public at the main entrance which excluded me from the premises."

"Nonetheless, would you please take your gun to your car?"

"You want me to leave?"

"... No. We just ask that you take your gun to your car and leave it there."

"My car which is out in the parking lot and not here in the dining room?"

"Yes."

"So you're asking me to leave."

"No. We just ask that you leave your gun in your car."

"But you don't want me to leave?"

"That's right."

"You just want me to egress the building... and then are conditioning my re-ingress on my no longer being armed for my own defense."

"Yes."

"So, you want me to leave."

"We only want your gun to leave, not you."

"But unless I throw it out the door into the parking lot, I have to leave with it."

"Okay, fine, we want you to leave, put your gun in your car, and then-- Whu-- Where are you going?"

I put on my coat, gather up my effects and leave the building.

Out in the parking lot, "Ma'am! Your check! Please, pay your check!"

"I can't. According to Indiana's criminal trespass statute, once asked to leave the premises, I am required to do so, and I quote, 'without delay.' For me to stay to pay the check would be for me to delay my departure from your premises unnecessarily and hence be subject to a criminal trespassing charge. Good day to you."

I get in my car and drive away.

Something critical to keep in mind here, while the moral thing would be for me to pay my bill for the food I was actually served, the law, read literally, would not afford me that ability. There are things which are legal which are not moral and things that are moral which are not legal.

And as for the innocent waitress caught in the middle, if such a scenario pressed on the wait staff what crumby bosses the management at "Lenny's" is to work for, then maybe Lenny's would find itself unable to hire competent wait staff.

 

[RA8]

Pay and tip, show them you are a person of good character........even over tip.

THIS! Please look out for the one NOT involved.

 

[MikeDVB]

I can't say what I would do until it happened, and I hope it never does.

In the event that it does, whether or not I pay would depend greatly on if I was served and how much of it I had eaten.

That being said, I see no mention of the word 'delay' in the Indiana Trespass Statute, unless I'm looking at the wrong thing: http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar43/ch2.html

 

[Bunnykid68]

Anyone that wouldn't tip a server because of something their restaurant asked you to do is absolutely out of line. These people rely on tips, sometimes that is the only job they are able to get.

It makes me sick to think that just because you are trying to prove a point, you may be taking it out on an innocent bystander? There are enough difficult people out there, why not show the world that gun owners and carriers are classy people. I get it, you don't want your rights infringed upon, but Lord almighty that server (if they had nothing to do with it) cannot help what their company policy is or what their manager does.

By this same logic we should all patronize these places that ban firearms on their property because by not doing so these people will not have a job.

I am with 88GT on this, no tip and I will tell them why they are not getting a tip. Your boss just asked me to leave because I have a firearm and I cannot support his decision and since you work for him you support it as well.

 

[92ThoStro]

Imagine this vignette:

After having been seated, taken off my coat, been given menus and time to look them over, had my order taken and been served, the manager notices my personal protection sidearm and orders the waitress to run the corporate script on me...

"Excuse me ma'am? We here at Lenny's would really rather you leave your gun in your car."

"But I didn't... and what's more, I never will."

"We here at Lenny's have a strict no weapons policy."

"Really? I didn't see any sign posted conspicuously where it is likely to come to the attention of the public at the main entrance which excluded me from the premises."

"Nonetheless, would you please take your gun to your car?"

"You want me to leave?"

"... No. We just ask that you take your gun to your car and leave it there."

"My car which is out in the parking lot and not here in the dining room?"

"Yes."

"So you're asking me to leave."

"No. We just ask that you leave your gun in your car."

"But you don't want me to leave?"

"That's right."

"You just want me to egress the building... and then are conditioning my re-ingress on my no longer being armed for my own defense."

"Yes."

"So, you want me to leave."

"We only want your gun to leave, not you."

"But unless I throw it out the door into the parking lot, I have to leave with it."

"Okay, fine, we want you to leave, put your gun in your car, and then-- Whu-- Where are you going?"

I put on my coat, gather up my effects and leave the building.

Out in the parking lot, "Ma'am! Your check! Please, pay your check!"

"I can't. According to Indiana's criminal trespass statute, once asked to leave the premises, I am required to do so, and I quote, 'without delay.' For me to stay to pay the check would be for me to delay my departure from your premises unnecessarily and hence be subject to a criminal trespassing charge. Good day to you."

I get in my car and drive away.

Something critical to keep in mind here, while the moral thing would be for me to pay my bill for the food I was actually served, the law, read literally, would not afford me that ability. There are things which are legal which are not moral and things that are moral which are not legal.

And as for the innocent waitress caught in the middle, if such a scenario pressed on the wait staff what crumby bosses the management at "Lenny's" is to work for, then maybe Lenny's would find itself unable to hire competent wait staff.

That's a very interesting way to handle it... mindplay
I would not pay if asked to leave, and I believe that the guy from the other week handled it very well also. It was the thread about BDUBS.
If you are done eating, and they ask you to leave, obviously they don't want you to pay for the food... "

 

[Bunnykid68]

Imagine this vignette:

After having been seated, taken off my coat, been given menus and time to look them over, had my order taken and been served, the manager notices my personal protection sidearm and orders the waitress to run the corporate script on me...

"Excuse me ma'am? We here at Lenny's would really rather you leave your gun in your car."

"But I didn't... and what's more, I never will."

"We here at Lenny's have a strict no weapons policy."

"Really? I didn't see any sign posted conspicuously where it is likely to come to the attention of the public at the main entrance which excluded me from the premises."

"Nonetheless, would you please take your gun to your car?"

"You want me to leave?"

"... No. We just ask that you take your gun to your car and leave it there."

"My car which is out in the parking lot and not here in the dining room?"

"Yes."

"So you're asking me to leave."

"No. We just ask that you leave your gun in your car."

"But you don't want me to leave?"

"That's right."

"You just want me to egress the building... and then are conditioning my re-ingress on my no longer being armed for my own defense."

"Yes."

"So, you want me to leave."

"We only want your gun to leave, not you."

"But unless I throw it out the door into the parking lot, I have to leave with it."

"Okay, fine, we want you to leave, put your gun in your car, and then-- Whu-- Where are you going?"

I put on my coat, gather up my effects and leave the building.

Out in the parking lot, "Ma'am! Your check! Please, pay your check!"

"I can't. According to Indiana's criminal trespass statute, once asked to leave the premises, I am required to do so, and I quote, 'without delay.' For me to stay to pay the check would be for me to delay my departure from your premises unnecessarily and hence be subject to a criminal trespassing charge. Good day to you."

I get in my car and drive away.

Something critical to keep in mind here, while the moral thing would be for me to pay my bill for the food I was actually served, the law, read literally, would not afford me that ability. There are things which are legal which are not moral and things that are moral which are not legal.

And as for the innocent waitress caught in the middle, if such a scenario pressed on the wait staff what crumby bosses the management at "Lenny's" is to work for, then maybe Lenny's would find itself unable to hire competent wait staff.

That's awesome

 

[MikeDVB]

If you are done eating, and they ask you to leave, obviously they don't want you to pay for the food... "

That's one way of thinking about it... If you were done, generally you would be about to leave as-is so there would be no need to ask you to do so unless I guess you were hanging out after your meal was over for an extended period.

 

[CathyInBlue]

That being said, I see no mention of the word 'delay' in the Indiana Trespass Statute, unless I'm looking at the wrong thing: Indiana Code 35-43-2

Hmmm...

(2) not having a contractual interest in the property, knowingly or intentionally refuses to leave the real property of another person after having been asked to leave by the other person or that person's agent;

You're right. I must have conflated the " knowingly or intentionally refuses to leave" into a form of delay. I'll have to think about this some more.

There's also the fact that nothing says I drove there. I might have taken the city bus. There might not be any car out in the parking lot for me to leave my gun in.

 

[quake]

If I ate the meal, I would pay for the meal. And I would tip the waiter/waitress as well. BUT, I damn sure wouldn't be back.

 

[Regnar]

Interesting discussion here on both sides.
Food for thought for sure. This is why I keep it out of sight. But to each there own.