"If I`m Ever In a Gun Fight"

[jaybird_123]

This is one of the most stupid answers I think I have ever heard. Most of my buddies ask why I carry a revolver, and I answer, I don't have to worry about a jam, I pull the trigger and it fires. So I have asked them, why they carry a semi-auto, most of the time the answer I get is, "if I`m ever in a gun fight" ill have 12-13-15 rounds, however many theirs holds. Come on, really, how many "gun fights" have you seen in your lifetime? Not counting a shoot out between police and some nut case. At the most if you are ever involved in a shooting, its gonna be 1 shot, maybe 2 at the most. By that time 20 cop cars are going to be arriving, and its over. Some time in the future, when every city is like "Escape From New York", I could see it happening. But right now in our society there are no gun fights. This is not Dodge City in the 1800`s, its not going to happen. Just my on a dumb answer. Thank you for your time in reading this. Have a good day.

 

[lovemachine]

Don't bet your life on averages.

Don’t bet your life on averages | The Bang Switch

And

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...se/301716-dont_bet_your_life_on_averages.html

 

[pudly]

So you are okay with New York's limiting citizens to 7 rounds? How about letting others decide what is right for them or if there is a possibility that there will be more than one attacker?

 

[gregkl]

So you are okay with New York's limiting citizens to 7 rounds? How about letting others decide what is right for them or if there is a possibility that there will be more than one attacker?

I don't think the OP was saying anything about limiting citizens but I maybe I didn't read enough into his post.

 

[in625shooter]

So you are okay with New York's limiting citizens to 7 rounds? How about letting others decide what is right for them or if there is a possibility that there will be more than one attacker?

Not a mouthpiece here but, I don't believe anything was mentioned or this has anything about NY's new capacity law. What the OP was questioning was the overwhelming "mentality" by many that only round count matters in the choice of some's daily CCW.

I am a LE trainer and the poster is pretty much right on. What I have observed In most civilian encounters the average is 3 rounds at 3 yards in 3 seconds. LE shootings are more because of several other factors. 1 There are usually more than one officer engaging. (Why NYPD shot a person 42 times in a couple seconds. 4 Officers shooting in a high stress case they usually are not noticing the rounds the others are firing)

2. LE training has developed into shooting until the threat goes away or is down. This has become a necessity because unlike civilian shooting the percentage of perps LEO's face being on narcotics, the failure of early rounds from certain automatic chambering's etc etc etc.

No one is saying anything about how many rounds anyone should be allowed to carry just the mentality that that's "why" folks choice what they choice is sometimes more fear inspired than what happens in the real world.

 

[Bennettjh]

So you are okay with New York's limiting citizens to 7 rounds? How about letting others decide what is right for them or if there is a possibility that there will be more than one attacker?

I carry as many rounds as I can. I'm not going to rely on 1 or 2 shots to get me out of a threat.

 

[pudly]

I don't think the OP was saying anything about limiting citizens but I maybe I didn't read enough into his post.

Not a mouthpiece here but, I don't believe anything was mentioned or this has anything about NY's new capacity law.

No, the OP didn't mention NY's SAFE Act. However, his statement uses the exact same arguments as their law. He is arguing against those who choose to carry more than 6 rounds. I'm not going to count on an "average" if I can easily carry more. If he chooses to, that is fine and I wouldn't tell him not to. I see from your posts that you both carry semi-autos. Do you feel the need to tell others what they should carry? That is what the NY SAFE Act and the OP is all about.

 

[longbow]

I've always said ' have a bigger gun and 1 more bullet." That could be 2 or 48.....

 

[Rob377]

No, the OP didn't mention NY's SAFE Act. However, his statement uses the exact same arguments as their law. He is arguing against those who choose to carry more than 6 rounds. I'm not going to count on an "average" if I can easily carry more. If he chooses to, that is fine and I wouldn't tell him not to. I see from your posts that you both carry semi-autos. Do you feel the need to tell others what they should carry and particularly to limit what they carry?

Exactly.

I carry a M249 with the 200rd drum, along with a spare drum in case SHTF. And if you think that's over the top, it's because you're antigun, and probably a communist.

 

[wcd]

This is one of the most stupid answers I think I have ever heard. Most of my buddies ask why I carry a revolver, and I answer, I don't have to worry about a jam, I pull the trigger and it fires. So I have asked them, why they carry a semi-auto, most of the time the answer I get is, "if I`m ever in a gun fight" ill have 12-13-15 rounds, however many theirs holds. Come on, really, how many "gun fights" have you seen in your lifetime? Not counting a shoot out between police and some nut case. At the most if you are ever involved in a shooting, its gonna be 1 shot, maybe 2 at the most. By that time 20 cop cars are going to be arriving, and its over. Some time in the future, when every city is like "Escape From New York", I could see it happening. But right now in our society there are no gun fights. This is not Dodge City in the 1800`s, its not going to happen. Just my on a dumb answer. Thank you for your time in reading this. Have a good day.

Here are my reasons:

First and foremost my side arm is the one that I personally have the mosst experience with, it is the one that I reasearced for months before making the purcahse. Also it is the first one that I used after learning proper safety and handling. It is the one that can afford to shoot the most at the range, which is usually once a month sometimes more depending on the weather. Finally the semi auto I carry fits my manner of carry making it very easy to carry every day. I am not an expert by any means, I do not have years of expertise behind me, I do not have any U-Tube videos nor do claim to be some one that knows it all. What I am is a father with an open mind who just wants to keep his family safe.

 

[possum_128]

Well heck, I've been doing it wrong all these years and so have you. According to your statement that only one or two shots at the most are needed, why do you carry a revolver with 5 or 6 rounds in it? I guess all any of us need is a 2 shot deringer to keep us all safe.

 

[actaeon277]

This is one of the most stupid answers I think I have ever heard. Most of my buddies ask why I carry a revolver, and I answer, I don't have to worry about a jam, I pull the trigger and it fires. So I have asked them, why they carry a semi-auto, most of the time the answer I get is, "if I`m ever in a gun fight" ill have 12-13-15 rounds, however many theirs holds. Come on, really, how many "gun fights" have you seen in your lifetime? Not counting a shoot out between police and some nut case. At the most if you are ever involved in a shooting, its gonna be 1 shot, maybe 2 at the most. By that time 20 cop cars are going to be arriving, and its over. Some time in the future, when every city is like "Escape From New York", I could see it happening. But right now in our society there are no gun fights. This is not Dodge City in the 1800`s, its not going to happen. Just my on a dumb answer. Thank you for your time in reading this. Have a good day.

Don't count on that.
My S&W model 19 didn't work last time at the range. The trigger won't move. I need to have it looked at. Turns out, for a month I've been carrying the equivalent of a hammer.

I've seen a primer backed out, freezing the cylinder. (someone else's gun)

I've seen a "Hillary lock" engage itself. (someone else's gun)

 

[jgressley2003]

Yeah most likely you may only fire 1-2 shots, but what happens if there are 2 or 3 attackers? I prefer at least 10 rds. How can you say their answer is dumb, but you state that their our no gun fights in our society? Carry what you want to carry, but don't attack others who prefer more rounds.

 

[pudly]

I carry a M249 with the 200rd drum

'Merica

 

[SmileDocHill]

An extra mag isn't just for more bullets. A lot of malfunctions can be fixed with a quick mag change.

 

[gregkl]

No, the OP didn't mention NY's SAFE Act. However, his statement uses the exact same arguments as their law. He is arguing against those who choose to carry more than 6 rounds. I'm not going to count on an "average" if I can easily carry more. If he chooses to, that is fine and I wouldn't tell him not to. I see from your posts that you both carry semi-autos. Do you feel the need to tell others what they should carry? That is what the NY SAFE Act and the OP is all about.

Hmm...I don't see from my posts that I carry a semi-auto. I also don't see from my posts that I tell others what they should carry.

I have carried a semi-auto, once. Right now I don't carry.

I know it's hard to gauge a conversation in a forum without being able to hear voice inflection and read body language. I guess I missed the "argument" that occurred with the OP. Sorry about that.

 

[Hohn]

It really boils down to statistics.

An average is just one statistic. But, as the linked blog indicates, it's just an average, and we all know that, on average, half the people are above average-- and the other half, below.

What you'll find is that as you go up in "round count" you account for a higher percentage of shootings. If half (50%) of all shootings end with less than 3 rounds fired, maybe 80% end with less than 12 rounds fired. Maybe 90% is < 15 rounds.

What you'll probably find is that you can achieve a 90% or 95% confidence with a full size carry gun and a spare mag.

But to get to 99% you'll probably need 50+ rounds.

To get to 99.9% you'll probably need 500 rounds.

To get to 99.99%, you'll need maybe 5000 rounds.

Obviously statistical inferences aren't very valid at the extremes, but you see the point.

The odds of a LAGO ending up in an FBI-Miami-style shootout are slim to none. But it's not impossible.


On the flip side, shot placement and round count are inversely related. The better you are at keeping a cool head and steady hand, the greater the likelihood that you will NOT need all those extra rounds.

 

[LarryC]

I can see both sides of this subject. Basically, I don't have a dog in either fight as I have several automatics, revolvers and even a couple derringers. I personally don't see anything wrong with carrying a revolver, semi-auto or a derringer if your are proficient with the firearm and the firearm and ammo is reliable.

When I was young, (1940's -50's) I was told by an experienced well regarded hunter/sportsman that everyone should start hunting with a single shot firearm. He said he could tell what you were trained with if you went hunting with him. His consensus was that people that learned with a single shot were far more likely to learn to approach the game closer, take the time to get an accurate kill shot (and were more accurate) than those who learned with a semi-auto rifle.

He said those with a semi-auto would normally take longer shots with less deliberation - knowing they had additional "chances" to kill the game. Actually made sense then - still does. If you know you only have 2 or 6 shots, you are far more likely to make them count than if you have a dozen or so bullets you can spray.

My normal carry gun is a Colt Double Eagle 45 ACP, 8 round magazine. At times I do carry a derringer. The ONLY reason I don't carry a revolver is that I find them more "bulky" due to the thickness of the cylinder. My 45 is flatter and I normally carry it in an inside the belt Uncle mike holster in the small of my back.

I guess my only argument is that no one has the right to tell anyone what they should carry. Opinions are fine (like something else - everyone has one) but what is good for one person may not be at all right for another.

 

[in625shooter]

No, the OP didn't mention NY's SAFE Act. However, his statement uses the exact same arguments as their law. He is arguing against those who choose to carry more than 6 rounds. I'm not going to count on an "average" if I can easily carry more. If he chooses to, that is fine and I wouldn't tell him not to. I see from your posts that you both carry semi-autos. Do you feel the need to tell others what they should carry? That is what the NY SAFE Act and the OP is all about.

Nowhere in my posts did I mention I carry only a semi auto. My avatar is an indication of my first like and that is revolvers. I do carry semi autos when I am mandated on duty. I carry wheelguns as much off duty as I do the few semi's I own. I have 2 semi auto's in my private collection compared to 6 wheelguns so do the math!

I personally am not knocking anyone for their choice however I agree with the op in if that is the first reason someone looks at as a selection factor in a handgun their priorities are all wrong. Something they can actually shoot accurately should probably be the first item not what they think they might need. If all of us knew we were going to have a lethal encounter most of us would carry a rifle right off the bat.

It is much more desireable to have an accurate hit from the top of the first magazine than the bottom of the second one whether an 8 round 1911 or a 17 round polymer wonder gun! Or a 5 shot snubby

Do not misunderstand what I'm saying here there is no better value between a citizen or LEO but, While no a citizen does not have a duty to retreat the whole Idea is as a civilian you want to get away from the harm upon you engaging where LEO's have the task of following through with the arrest etc of said bad guy.

And as far as statistics the more rounds fired equal more rounds missed often due to poor training habits and the false sense of security of "but I have X number more rounds".

 

[tatertot]

This is one of the most stupid answers I think I have ever heard. Most of my buddies ask why I carry a revolver, and I answer, I don't have to worry about a jam, I pull the trigger and it fires. So I have asked them, why they carry a semi-auto, most of the time the answer I get is, "if I`m ever in a gun fight" ill have 12-13-15 rounds, however many theirs holds. Come on, really, how many "gun fights" have you seen in your lifetime? Not counting a shoot out between police and some nut case. At the most if you are ever involved in a shooting, its gonna be 1 shot, maybe 2 at the most. By that time 20 cop cars are going to be arriving, and its over. Some time in the future, when every city is like "Escape From New York", I could see it happening. But right now in our society there are no gun fights. This is not Dodge City in the 1800`s, its not going to happen. Just my on a dumb answer. Thank you for your time in reading this. Have a good day. [/QUOTE

I also don't think you're factoring in the stress and fatigue of fighting for your life. Going to the range when its 75 degrees and plinking off some rounds into paper is one thing. I've seen some "great" shooters make some pretty big mistakes when a little stress, fatigue, or bad weather get added to the mix.

Ive also met people with 8 and 9 gunshot wounds that have came from one gunfight. The point being if you can comfortably carry more rounds you should.