If Glocks Are So Popular Then. . . . .

[Joe Williams]

Absolutely! Go to the "race card" when you have no argument, excellent! You must be a Democrat? No wonder you're so pissed. And for what it's worth Hitler was dead over 4 decades before Gaston Glock invented the Glock pistol. But what the hell, don't let me to be the one to let facts stand in your way!

There is nothing wrong with either the Croatians, Marco Vukovic, or for that matter the Springfield XD, which as I have mentioned is an exact copy of the HS-2000. I'm getting used to repeating myself here. I guess one is required to do that with Springfield XD owners that have a difficult time digesting fact.

First off the Springfield XD / HS-2000 is a nice pistol.......for $250.00. Which is exactly what it sold for when they were trying to sell it. Please notice I said trying. Now it sells for twice that and we've got people standing in line to tell us all how fantastic it is! What has changed? Let's apply that same thought process to the 1911 pistol, or for that matter the Glock, shall we???



Both have been competitively priced from the get go. Look at the price of the Glock 17 Pistol in 1987. It's retail price was $443.65, (as listed in the 1987 Gun Digest). It is just about the same today. What is the dollar worth today as compared to then? Now look at your $250.00 XD / HS-2000?? Where did the money go? The $2 dollar holster they give you with it? Perhaps it was the $3 dollar case? No? Well then help me out because I'm lost.

In 1973 I purchased a brand new Colt Gold Cup National Match for $225.00. Today it is right around a grand, give or take. Again, look at the dollar. Adjust according to inflation and the gun is right about where it should be. The XD??? You tell me?

I'm not saying the Springfield XD is a "bad" gun. I'm not saying the Springfield XD isn't a financial success story. It is. But it is based on the fact it is a cheaply designed semi auto that when sold for what it was actually worth, had almost no sales at all. The FACT is that it wasn't until Springfield Armory took it over, both from a manufacturing AND sales standpoint, spent millions advertising the living crap out of it, that the thing even began to sell. Call it a sugar coated turd. Call it marketing genius. Call it business 101. Just don't call it a $500.00 pistol, because the only reason it sells for that is because Springfield was clever enough to convince you it is worth it, when I.M. Metals couldn't convince you to buy it for $250.00. Those are the facts, regardless of how hard you XD lovers find them to swallow. Bill T.

Oh... you want facts, but insist on continuing to post garbage instead of those facts. You've been corrected repeatedly about the incorrect information you keep posting, but keep spewing it forth anyway.

First, as has been pointed out repeatedly, the XD is not and has not been for a number of years an "exact" copy of the HS-2000, which was a fine gun in it's own right.

Second, XD owners are not paying for a gun from a no name company with minimal service and support as HS-2000 owners did. They are buying guns backed by a company with some of the best support in the industry. A company that, unlike Glock, addressed the concerns and weaknesses of the earlier design and fixed them without blaming the owners. That kind of customer support is worth paying for, especially when I can call Springfield or whatever company whose gun I'm currently carrying with a problem and have them fix it. You don't, incidentally, get that kind of service from Glock, as I discovered with my Model 23. The one that jammed repeatedly no matter who was shooting it, and was told by Glock that I must be doing something wrong. Thankfully, the dealer took it back (it helps that I spent hundreds of dollars in his shop every month) and tried to deal with Glock instead. Eventually he gave up, and sold the gun with full disclosure at a huge loss. Glock's money surely isn't going to customer service.. where is it going, I wonder?

Speaking of where the money goes, you seem awfully concerned about where the money for XDs go, while ignoring the fact that Glock aggressively markets and sells guns to LE agencies and officers at a price markedly below what they charge everyone else. They are not just giving those discounted guns away at a loss, so why are they charging everyone else so much? Where is the money going, and why aren't you getting your panties in a wad over the fact that Glock is apparently overcharging private citizens drastically? The guy I got my gun from paid something like $360 for a brand new gun. New Glocks are sold to many people for not much more. Why do you support Glock apparently ripping off the general public by charging so much for a gun that they can obviously sell for less and still make a profit?

Oh, and as for facts you really should review my posts before writing me off as merely an "XD lover." What I am is a very knowledgeable man with decades of experience using sidearms as duty guns, competition guns, sporting and hunting guns, and personal protection guns. I've owned, tested, and carried a vast array of personal sidearms from every major and as many minor manufacturers as I can find. I know their strengths, weaknesses, their faults, and I know someone whose greatest attribute is slinging BS... that last pretty well encompasses fanboys of any design who spout nonsense, garbage, and falsehoods. There is a vast difference between loving your chosen firearm design, and being blind to it's strengths and weaknesses as well as those of other designs. Far from hating Glocks, I admire them. and many other designs, for what they are. Heck, it's only been a couple weeks since I was looking for either a Glock OR an XD, simply because I like both guns, both meet my needs, and the strengths and weaknesses of each pretty much balances each out. I simply couldn't make up my mind. Both are so good I simply asked for both, and took the first good deal that came my way. It's pure chance I carry an XD now instead of a Glock. I'm hardly mad, or angry, or even overly concerned with the rabid, slobbering love fanboys shower upon their chosen brands.

But I love twisting the knots fanboys, especially Glock fanboys though 1911 fanboys can also be good sport, get in their panties when confronted with actual FACTS about their guns, and the competing ones they feel some warped need to denigrate. As should have been clear from several posts in this thread where I flat out said so... I love pushing fanboy buttons. Glock fanboys are the most fun because even though they know it is being done to them, they simply cannot help but become frothing maniacs in defense of their favorite inanimate object. However, I do not do this merely out of boredom. I do it because folks seeking actual, useful information deserve better than to have fanboy garbage shoved down their throats unchallenged. With all the outstanding service sidearms on the market, folks who aren't allowed to hear anything but a mindless "buy Glock buy Glock" uttered by blind zombies are being done a true disservice.

 

[w_ADAM_d88]

But the stormtrooper rifles appeared to be awfully inaccurate.

Does this mean Glocks are as inaccurate as stormtrooper rifles?

I think it was a case of operator error.

 

[Joe Williams]

I think it was a case of operator error.

It's because they are so uncivilized. The Springfield MKII Lightsaber is a truly elegant weapon, and much less random.

 

[Hoosier45]

Oh, and as for facts you really should review my posts before writing me off as merely an "XD lover." What I am is a very knowledgeable man with decades of experience using sidearms as duty guns, competition guns, sporting and hunting guns, and personal protection guns. I've owned, tested, and carried a vast array of personal sidearms from every major and as many minor manufacturers as I can find. I know their strengths, weaknesses, their faults, and I know someone whose greatest attribute is slinging BS... that last pretty well encompasses fanboys of any design who spout nonsense, garbage, and falsehoods. There is a vast difference between loving your chosen firearm design, and being blind to it's strengths and weaknesses as well as those of other designs. Far from hating Glocks, I admire them. and many other designs, for what they are. Heck, it's only been a couple weeks since I was looking for either a Glock OR an XD, simply because I like both guns, both meet my needs, and the strengths and weaknesses of each pretty much balances each out. I simply couldn't make up my mind. Both are so good I simply asked for both, and took the first good deal that came my way. It's pure chance I carry an XD now instead of a Glock. I'm hardly mad, or angry, or even overly concerned with the rabid, slobbering love fanboys shower upon their chosen brands.

I can vouch for Joe here. A while back he and I did some side by side comparisons of Glock, XD, Sig, M&P, Beretta, HK, Para and Ruger. He seemed to approach it with an open mind, and he was surprised with his conclusions. He even made me promise not to repeat what he said.

 

[Joe Williams]

snip I can vouch for Joe here. A while back he and I did some side by side comparisons of Glock, XD, Sig, M&P, Beretta, HK, Para and Ruger. He seemed to approach it with an open mind, and he was surprised with his conclusions. He even made me promise not to repeat what he said.

It was awesome shooting them side by side! You've got a great collection.

The Glock vs XD thing side by side was a bit surprising. I've always preferred the feel of the XD, but the Glock 19 was a bit nicer to shoot. Sharper recoil than the XD, but less muzzle flippy. The XD feels and points better, but it's a top heavy booger, and side by side with the Glock has markedly more muzzle flip. The Glock grip feels like a 2x4 in the hand, but the gun is better balanced It wasn't something I'd really noticed shooting them separately.

I actually still like my much missed Ruger P95 better than either. Sadly, it didn't fit with our family's needs for the time being, so it went to procure a gun that does. I'll surely own another, though.

I still want a Glock 26... the one Infidel let me borrow was a sweetheart to carry and shoot. That's a gun that I could see replacing my old 3" SP101 as my favorite.

 

[billt]

First, as has been pointed out repeatedly, the XD is not and has not been for a number of years an "exact" copy of the HS-2000, which was a fine gun in it's own right.

Yes, it was.....for $250.00

Second, XD owners are not paying for a gun from a no name company with minimal service and support as HS-2000 owners did. They are buying guns backed by a company with some of the best support in the industry.

Excellent. So you like paying double the price for a warranty Glock and most others give you for free? Should Marlin go back to selling the Model 60 without a warranty for $75.00? Also if Springfield is so fantastic, why won't they sell simple parts to customers and gunsmiths like every other manufacturer does?

Glock's money surely isn't going to customer service

Then why are they selling more semi auto pistols than anyone worldwide? Please enlighten all of us why people, millitary and law enforcement agencies around the globe are buying them as fast as Glock can produce them?

Glock aggressively markets and sells guns to LE agencies and officers at a price markedly below what they charge everyone else.

So does Smith & Wesson, Sig Sauer, H&K, Colt, and just about everyone else. And why shouldn't they when they are spending tens of thousands of dollars on pistols? Or in the case of large city law enforcement agencies, hundreds of thousands. Come on Joe, is this the best you can come up with?

What I am is a very knowledgeable man with decades of experience using sidearms as duty guns, competition guns, sporting and hunting guns, and personal protection guns.

Then why did you spend $450.00 on a $250.00 pistol, then try and convince me it is so wonderful compared to a gun that has been steadily priced in the marketplace since it's introduction, and sold well too boot? Exactly where did all of the "experience" come from??

I'm hardly mad, or angry, or even overly concerned with the rabid, slobbering love fanboys shower upon their chosen brands.

Really? I'll let that statement stand on it's own. You're a bit like Tina Fay saying she's really conservative and likes Sarah Palin.

I love pushing fanboy buttons.

Why because you overpaid for your XD?

With all the outstanding service sidearms on the market, folks who aren't allowed to hear anything but a mindless "buy Glock buy Glock" uttered by blind zombies are being done a true disservice.

Who said that? Where did I ever state "Buy only Glock"? Who is getting bent out of shape now? All I ever stated is fact, pure and simple. The Springfield XD is an overpriced, over marketed pistol that you, and many others fell for in an overly slick, super hyped marketing campaign that was superbly introduced. They got you, with all of your experience and vast superior knowledge to buy one, didn't they? They must be doing something right.

I don't like to "push anyone's buttons". That's the difference between us. I like all guns and own a great many. With that said I carefully research my purchases, and carefully look at price, as well as overall sales and results of those sales. When I take all of that into play, and in the process see a $250.00 handgun suddenly selling for twice that, I take a step back and ask myself why? How come with all of your vast experience and knowledge didn't you??? By the way if you're interested, I've got a Gold Cup for sale for $3,500.00. It's vastly improved! Bill T.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Beat that dead horse! This thought has been brought up more times than I care to count. If you like Glocks then by all means buy one they are good pistols. If not, then put down the stick and leave the poor dead horse alone! As for the OMG Glock vs Xd argument. Buy WTF fits you best and move on. One is not better than the other. It's all a matter of prefrence.

 

[Joe Williams]

snip

Then why did you spend $450.00 on a $250.00 pistol, then try and convince me it is so wonderful compared to a gun that has been steadily priced in the marketplace since it's introduction, and sold well too boot? Exactly where did all of the "experience" come from??
snip

Now, see, this is the kind of fact challenged statement that you've been putting out. I said what my gun cost new...

Now, given your inability to comprehend and accurately speak about that simple fact ( a word you put stress on a couple posts ago,) why should anyone take seriously anything else you've said about guns... of whatever breed?

 

[Hoosier45]

Beat that dead horse! This thought has been brought up more times than I care to count. If you like Glocks then by all means buy one they are good pistols. If not, then put down the stick and leave the poor dead horse alone! As for the OMG Glock vs Xd argument. Buy WTF fits you best and move on. One is not better than the other. It's all a matter of prefrence.

NOT TRUE! What I like and what fits ME best is clearly also the best choice for YOU.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Now, see, this is the kind of fact challenged statement that you've been putting out. I said what my gun cost new...

Now, given your inability to comprehend and accurately speak about that simple fact ( a word you put stress on a couple posts ago,) why should anyone take seriously anything else you've said about guns... of whatever breed?

I really wanted to stay out of this argument but I could not resist. I agree with Joe 100%. You have to understand one key thing. Glock has been on the market for over 10 more years than the Xd. So of course there is going to be more in circulation. So, that is failed argument #1. Secondly, back when the LEO departments adopted the Glock there was nothing to compete with Glock. So, that is failed argument #2. Thirdly, a lot of departments are starting to switch to the M&P series of handguns.

Both are good reliable platforms. So, why is it just because some choose a certain platform. The other platform has to be an overpriced piece of junk? Yes, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I'm not partial to either one. I did own an Xd at one time but sold it for something that fit "ME" better.

 

[John224]

Why is almost half of every page in the firearms for sale section Glocks?

And the question was???

 

[billt]

Now, see, this is the kind of fact challenged statement that you've been putting out. I said what my gun cost new...

Now, given your inability to comprehend and accurately speak about that simple fact ( a word you put stress on a couple posts ago,) why should anyone take seriously anything else you've said about guns... of whatever breed?

Look Joe, why do you keep evading the question and substitute bull$h!t in it's place? There is zero doubt the XD is overpriced because of what the same design sold for before Springfield got their paws on it. If you actually believe this thing is so superbly advanced from when Vukovic designed it, where are these "improvements"? And please enlighten me with your vast experience you like to brag so much about, where these "improvements" exactly are, and much more importantly, why they effectively doubled the cost of the gun overnight? Why can I drop parts from a $250.00 HS-2000 into a $500.00 Springfield XD, and it will run just fine? I have personally seen it done, so please don't try and tell me otherwise.

I'm asking you a very simple question you either cannot or will not answer. What exactly has Springfield done to this pistol to justify doubling it's retail price right out of the starting gate, besides advertise the living hell out of it?

This has been my only argument all along Joe. I'm not a "fan boy" of any pistol. I just won't pay $500.00 for a $250.00 gun regardless of who manufacturers it, anymore than I'll pay $65.00 for a Ruth's Chriss Steak I can buy at Costco for $12 bucks. To me the place, the $1.50 worth of Hickory to cook it, along with it's "ambiance", and a waitress kissing my ass for all of 15 minutes, isn't worth the added overcharge. To some people it must be. Just like paying $500.00 for an XD with a $3 buck case with a $2 buck "holster" tossed in for good measure. Good for some, not for others who watch their money and possess a fair sense of value. That's all I'm saying.

Springfield Armory does a good job selling their XD pistol, just as Ruth's Chriss does damn near as good of a business selling overpriced beef. Just not from me. Simple to understand, right? Bill T.

 

[Joe Williams]

Look Joe, why do you keep evading the question and substitute bull!t in it's place? snip

I've already answered your question, but apparently you've chosen to ignore that as well as several other things. Heck, you've even provided part of the answer yourself.

I've noticed that you have tried to gloss over the fact that Glock is charging citizens $530 or so for a gun they can obviously make a profit selling for $180 less. Seems your weird outrage over what the XD costs is a little selective.

As for my experience, I thought about answering, but it's clear you need practice reading, and comprehending what you've just read. So, instead of a straight answer (which it appears you'll ignore anyway) I'm going to suggest that if you are REALLY all that concerned, you begin reading my posts. I'm quite open about my experiences, and scattered among my 10,000 or so posts here you will find all the answers you need.

 

[billt]

I've noticed that you have tried to gloss over the fact that Glock is charging citizens $530 or so for a gun they can obviously make a profit selling for $180 less.

More total B.S. Show me anywhere what Glocks actual profit is per firearm. You are throwing numbers around you have no way of backing up. Big shocker there. Where has Glock ever sold a gun of the same model and design to the general public for half of what they are now charging? Still waiting for those "design improvements" Springfield made by the way??? Bill T.

 

[Joe Williams]

More total B.S. Show me anywhere what Glocks actual profit is per firearm. You are throwing numbers around you have no way of backing up. Big shocker there. Where has Glock ever sold a gun of the same model and design to the general public for half of what they are now charging? Still waiting for those "design improvements" Springfield made by the way??? Bill T.

Why, Glock ISN'T selling their guns to the general public for the reduced price they'll sell them to some folks for. Seems they are overcharging the general public... where oh where is your outrage?

What is Springfield's actual profit on the XD?

BTW... I'd like to hear more about those rusting XDs.... none of the three we've owned have exhibited that characteristic. Wonder if it's an issue that's been addressed and improved? Oops... yes it is. One of several that have been pointed out to you.

 

[billt]

I'd like to hear more about those rusting XDs.

Here ya' go.......yet again. Bill T.

springfield XD rusting issues - Google Search

[ame]http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf6bMnwAQ1E[/ame]

 

[mammynun]

More total B.S. Show me anywhere what Glocks actual profit is per firearm. You are throwing numbers around you have no way of backing up. Big shocker there. Where has Glock ever sold a gun of the same model and design to the general public for half of what they are now charging? Still waiting for those "design improvements" Springfield made by the way??? Bill T.

billt, please confirm or deny that you own a Mac so I can stop reading this thread!

 

[HICKMAN]

Jesus carries a Glock, I saw it on the Internets, we can close this thread now.

 

[Joe Williams]

Jesus carries a Glock, I saw it on the Internets, we can close this thread now.

That's because He always had a soft spot for the less than perfect, and those who need help

 

[HICKMAN]

this is why the disciples had Glocks... except for Judas... filthy XD owner....