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Here Comes the Executive Order on Background Checks
- Thread starter ghuns
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What you saw going on is infuriating. When you read more and more of it, it started that slow boil we all feel a-rolling, and the more you read, the madder you got. Whichever of us it was that cooled you down didn't change the reasons to get mad. Now, though... now you get to put that anger working in a direction.
Ever see someone pull that trick where they put a firecracker on their open palm and light it? (Or conversely, do something to hit the primer of an unenclosed cartridge?)
Neither is an insignificant amount of force, but in that setting, the force is undirected and just makes a lot of noise.
Close the hand or slide that round into an enclosed chamber with a barrel in front of it and do the same thing. In the one case, you'll blow off fingers, and in the other, that bullet will, depending on powder charge and weight, etc., travel hundreds of feet in a mere second, and possibly with enough force to kill (depending on direction of aim.)
I'll admit, I was a little surprised to see you as you were yesterday. It's not a Churchmouse with whom I'm familiar. But now.... NOW you've been "reloaded", so to speak. You can find yourself a direction, take that energy, and push for some stuff to happen that you want to see. Your aim is not to kill. Yours is to make a difference.
We (most of us) are more conservative in our thinking. Our focus is on changing ourselves to be what we want to see when we look in the mirror. We concern ourselves less with what others do, as that's their bailiwick, not ours, and it's not our place to run their lives. Our opposites, the statists (and note I did not say enemies, just opposites) are much more well-rehearsed at telling others how to live their lives. "You shouldn't have a drink that big." "Your toilet flushes too much water." "Guns R bad, mmmkay?" and we're behind the 8-ball in fixing what they've f****d up. I don't know that we can put all the demons back into Pandora's box, but I also remember what else was in there with them.
Long and short of this post with all it's mixed metaphors is this: You're angry. All of you are angry, when you see what we've allowed to happen. Find a direction and put that anger to use by blowing away a problem, figuratively speaking. Find your own problem to address. Mine is Constitutional Carry and an end to state-level and lower "gun-free zones". That's not to exclude anyone- Lord knows I can't win that battle alone! I'm just saying that's where I'm focusing my efforts.
H.L. Mencken once said, "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
I don't think we need to be so violent about it, but for me, that time is now and my target is bad laws... THOSE throats, I'll happily slit, figuratively speaking.
Let's quit being firecrackers in open palms and get to work.
Blessings,
Bill
Ever see someone pull that trick where they put a firecracker on their open palm and light it? (Or conversely, do something to hit the primer of an unenclosed cartridge?)
Neither is an insignificant amount of force, but in that setting, the force is undirected and just makes a lot of noise.
Close the hand or slide that round into an enclosed chamber with a barrel in front of it and do the same thing. In the one case, you'll blow off fingers, and in the other, that bullet will, depending on powder charge and weight, etc., travel hundreds of feet in a mere second, and possibly with enough force to kill (depending on direction of aim.)
I'll admit, I was a little surprised to see you as you were yesterday. It's not a Churchmouse with whom I'm familiar. But now.... NOW you've been "reloaded", so to speak. You can find yourself a direction, take that energy, and push for some stuff to happen that you want to see. Your aim is not to kill. Yours is to make a difference.
We (most of us) are more conservative in our thinking. Our focus is on changing ourselves to be what we want to see when we look in the mirror. We concern ourselves less with what others do, as that's their bailiwick, not ours, and it's not our place to run their lives. Our opposites, the statists (and note I did not say enemies, just opposites) are much more well-rehearsed at telling others how to live their lives. "You shouldn't have a drink that big." "Your toilet flushes too much water." "Guns R bad, mmmkay?" and we're behind the 8-ball in fixing what they've f****d up. I don't know that we can put all the demons back into Pandora's box, but I also remember what else was in there with them.
Long and short of this post with all it's mixed metaphors is this: You're angry. All of you are angry, when you see what we've allowed to happen. Find a direction and put that anger to use by blowing away a problem, figuratively speaking. Find your own problem to address. Mine is Constitutional Carry and an end to state-level and lower "gun-free zones". That's not to exclude anyone- Lord knows I can't win that battle alone! I'm just saying that's where I'm focusing my efforts.
H.L. Mencken once said, "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
I don't think we need to be so violent about it, but for me, that time is now and my target is bad laws... THOSE throats, I'll happily slit, figuratively speaking.
Let's quit being firecrackers in open palms and get to work.
Blessings,
Bill
No problem. "Hey, since you're buying that gun, I also have a box that just happens to be from the same manufacturer. The gun fits in it like it was made for it... I'll throw that in with it at no extra cost, if you want it."
"What? Is it the original packaging? Who knows? I took the gun out of the original box like I do all my guns when I get them, and just happens I kept this box and this gun fits in it. If you want it, it's yours."
Busy bodies, narcs, snitches, people looking to plea bargain or get out of some other legal issue they have will be the source of the info.
The Feds will then selectively prosecute a few cases reported by people who 'saw something and said something' and use those as an example in an attempt to intimidate others from selling even one or two items via armslist, INGO, gunbroker, etc.
Fear of a consequence drives the system. Unless you are hopping a fence or creek at the border...
To me the enemy is the Democrat party. It seems 99% of the unconstitutional trash we have to deal with comes from them. The remainder comes from RINO's. It is critical that we use the power of the ballot box to defeat these traitors and to do that, we need maximum turnout of real Americans. I say real Americans because I don't consider liberal socialists as real Americans who believe in America and our Constitution. Rather, they would do, as Obama clearly demonstrates, whatever they can to turn us into a socialist paradise ruled by statist elites.
The rest of the time we need to educate as best we can those around us who don't care about politics or have been drinking Kool Aid. I believe truly Draconian initiatives by a tyrannic government will result in brush fires throughout our country that will result in a major upheaval. Understand I'm not advocating that, but can certainly see it happening under certain circumstances.
The rest of the time we need to educate as best we can those around us who don't care about politics or have been drinking Kool Aid. I believe truly Draconian initiatives by a tyrannic government will result in brush fires throughout our country that will result in a major upheaval. Understand I'm not advocating that, but can certainly see it happening under certain circumstances.
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I, for one, understand completely. Further, I appreciate the time you have taken with me at times when I have been in a similar frame of mind. The unfortunate truth is that I don't believe that reason will ever be the vehicle for reigning these miscreants in. In deference to the rules, I am not going to write out an exhaustive unabridged list of potential solutions.
The Roosevelt Administration is a step ahead of you. The situation you recommend had in fact been the standard up until just before World War II. One of Red Frank's advisors had been an executive with RH Macy. This man explained that, based in his experience with one of the nation's largest retailers which had been on the cutting edge by offering house credit to its customers, that the customers really didn't care what something cost so long as they could afford the monthly payment. This was the genesis of tax withholding. First, it breaks it down into monthly payments which are seemingly more manageable than an annual bill, and second, it makes the payment more or less invisible since you don't perceive yourself losing money that you never had in your hand in the first place. They liked this idea so much for the purpose of fostering the very conditions you would like to see solved, that they actually forgave a year's taxes for absolutely everyone in the United States in the transition in order to sweeten the deal. While it may have caused a slight hiccup in the accounting without any significant change in the revenue collection aside from having the money come in as it goes out rather than the government having to husband a lump sum for a year, it brought the present state in which most people are peacefully oblivious to the extent they are being fleeced.
Bill, I can appreciate the value of real action in preference to sounding off. While we have tools available now that were not available at the time, I have seen times when I made more than a full time job out of taking action, to no effect. Quite frankly, especially given the establishment deathgrip (which I am hoping that Trump may fracture enough to get a candidate I really want in a position to have an actual chance), barring that happening, I don't see any solutions working which are not specifically prohibited from discussion on INGO. That may be harsh, but at no point in history can I point to any significant example of a system gone bad that climbed its way out of the crapper through reason and persuasion.
Fun thought, but if something like that gets shoved through, my guess is that this argument would work about as well as my position on arbitrarily charging people with intent to distribute based on possessing an arbitrary quantity of a politically incorrect substance: My argument is that I see no reason why an end user shouldn't buy a large quantity for the purpose of convenience, much in the same way that if you saw me walking out of Walmart with a case of toilet paper, you would not automatically suppose that I intended to be an unlicensed toilet paper vendor. By the end of the first test case, possession of a correct box in conjunction with the gun would be presumed to fall within the parameters of control by the regulation in question.
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Spear Dane
Grandmaster
I disagree. Anger is energy and energy can be directed into positive actions aimed at fixing what is wrong. Channeled correctly, it is FAR better than apathy (utter lack of energy), which has got us where we are now.
With respect, I feel these people are as "solid" in their "belief" as they can be. Like Dave says, there isn't any reasoning with these people.
And +1 for Mencken. Here's a critique of gun control from 1925: http://fee.org/freeman/the-uplifters-try-it-again/
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While I would agree, I believe that CM means that in the context of getting irritated and sounding off (while not doing anything else), not suggesting that we should not experience anger on the subject.
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I am going to step out on a limb and say that we are past the 2014 midterm and the way things are shaping up, the realistic outcome is that it's going to be Trump v. Hillary, and contrary to what the pundits have to say, Team D knows that Hillary is going to get her ass handed to her. He has finally reached the point at which he doesn't have anything politically to loose including the next election for the party. Remembering that he didn't 'build that', but rather is a post turtle that someone else put on top of the post, he isn't going to throw a winnable election for the team, but when it is already lost, he will do whatever he can manage to do. He didn't know that it was most likely lost until relatively recently.
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Very good analysis. My expectation is, that even with unprecedented capabilities to collect and analyze data, there are still limits on federal resources. If the feds go alone, I expect the 'trick-or-treating' to go something like this:
1. Round up all registered NFA weapons that are not in the possession of law enforcement personnel. They are presumably the greatest threat per unit to the tyrannical government, and the government knows exactly where each and every one of them are located. This would be the fastest and easiest part of the process.
2. Pink cards would be the second-round draft picks. You have a comprehensive list declared gun owners complete with current addresses. While I know that these records are held by the states, not the feds, between the NSA having the ability to pry into most any computerized records and the fact that only a small modicum of threat or more likely bribery would be necessary to get the states to roll over, there is no meaningful protection by virtue of federalism. I would emphasize that Mitch demonstrated that he would have crawled under the Resolute desk and started sucking for stimulus money. I would not expect that to be a rare exception.
3. While this is going on, I expect that the 4473s will have been called in, credit card transactions scrutinized, and social media sifted. This is where it gets a bit more difficult for our intrepid gun grabbers as the data are more amorphous. How many among us would have a stack of 4473s floating out there for guns that have long since been sold or traded? Conversely, how many of us have guns bought privately? You get the point. It is a start, but far from an instant registry, just add JBT. Similarly, it is entirely possible that there could be confusion about some card purchases. OK, I spend $800 at Dick's. Did I buy a gun or a kayak? Social media? There is at least some time and effort in converting it to an identifiable/locatable person, but not a huge amount. That said, we know that there are past and present INGO members who don't even own guns. My point is that once you get away from official permission to own/possess/carry, the trick-or-treating gets progressively more difficult.
4. When all this is done, there is the option of literally going door to door, which stands to be extremely time consuming and potentially dangerous depending on when and where. Significantly, this option offers the only systematic device for sweeping up guns and owners with little or no paper trail so it would eventually have to happen unless, of course, they just decide to skip it and wait for attrition to set in via snitches and friends and relatives with diarrhea of the mouth.
The bonus question is what to expect of local law enforcement. On one hand, I would like to think of them as being part of 'us' rather than part of 'them'. On the other, given the enthusiasm I have witnesses to intensely attack politically incorrect substances, drunk driving, and non-use of seatbelts, all while declaring that my concerns are irrelevant because it is being paid with federal funds, I have a difficult time believing that they would eschew adding one more thing to their whoring for federal money list. The significant consequence is that this would expand the manpower pool exponentially. Also of concern is that if we have drifted this far into flagrant violation of the Constitution, I fail to see why the military or something like Obama's equal to the military but answers to him personally rather than the office of the President under proper congressional authorization force wouldn't be used.
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You are right that those who are operating at a net gain wouldn't care, but once again, his point is clearly validated in the fact that the Roosevelt Administration ended the situation he advocates in order to eliminate the very consequences he suggests would apply.
I remember the year Clinton raised taxes, my exemptions were set up for the old withholdings. That year I had to write a check for $1500 above what was already withheld. I can tell you, I said a few naughty words out loud as I wrote out that check. It really pissed me off especially thinking about what the government was doing with my money. "Midnight basketball" was all the rage then. Now if that extra $1500 would have been taken out of my paycheck over the course of the year, would I have been as pissed as I was when I wrote the check? Probably not.
If people had to write out a check each month for their tax bill, yeah, it would make the people who aren't takers think a lot more about what that money goes to fund. I've said before I wish that every government expense that goes beyond the most basic non-discretionary functions of government that need to be funded was voluntary. Would people be so willing to write out a check to "Welfare". How about to study the impact of cow farts on global warming? If people had to write checks out for each category of discretionary spending, probably government would become much smaller.
I guess we can take solace in the knowledge New Year's resolutions usually fail...
Obama Reveals New Year?s Resolution ? and It has Everything to Do With Guns | TheBlaze.com
Obama Reveals New Year?s Resolution ? and It has Everything to Do With Guns | TheBlaze.com
I guess we can take solace in the knowledge New Year's resolutions usually fail...
Obama Reveals New Year?s Resolution ? and It has Everything to Do With Guns | TheBlaze.com
DO IT FOR THE KIDS!!!!! WHAT?! YOU DON'T WANT KIDS TO BE SAFE?!?!?!
Little boogers need to learn to fend for themselves!
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Exactly. Safety for the kids provided by Uncle Dave and the shotgun!
Just to clarify.......Getting "Kick Someone in the junk" mad and sounding off in here is not the answer.
Anger feeds anger and generates more visceral responses.
What has kept this thread on track is the lack of those who fit into the mold I describe. They have not found reason to get involved so no clear targets have been offered up. Most everyone involved is like minded.
That said, yes, I am kick someone in the junk mad I just am not sure who to start with right now. Like Bill stated (on point as always) focus the energy where it will matter. I have had so many extensive conversations with decent people that are left/lib leaning and 90% of them was a waste of energy. The 10% (est) that I did get out to the range have for the most part crossed over. They still vote for the same people but behind closed doors admit some of that thinking is flawed.
There is still much to do.
I do see the media as complicit in all of this. They are now tools of the same big money that runs the politico's and there fore the country.
^^This!! This is the key.. We have GOT to get people out to the range and let them see that they don't become murderous psychopaths just because they have a gun in hand. They need to see, firsthand, that when you get down to brass tacks, shooting is fun.
The downside is that we can't do that with cute soundbites broadcast to millions of people at a time. IndyDave, I share your pessimism, but I'll be DA*NED if I'll give in to it. I worry and I fear that we will indeed be forced into a war none of us want (and truly, what sane person who will actually be shooting and being shot at desires war?) but that does not for one idle second mean I'm not going to fight to prevent that from happening.
Is the media complicit? Of course they are. If it bleeds, it leads. THEY want war, because it sells papers and airtime. Remember the horror they displayed (most recently) when the reporter and cameraman were killed by a former coworker of theirs? It was all, "How can this happen?! We're reporting the news!" as if that's an actual shield behind which they can hide.
I've spent a couple of hours reviewing the records of guys like LtC Bruce Crandall and Capt. Ed Freeman, two honest-to-God heroes who earned the Medals of Honor they were recognized with back in November of 1965. I was less than a month old when they were flying helicopters into enemy fire in the Ia Drang valley of Viet Nam. Two lines from the movie that was made about that week come to mind. The first was paradoxically the one spoken later, from Sgt. Major Plumley to Joe Galloway, when Galloway identified himself as a reporter, a noncombatant. Plumley replied that there was no such thing that day. Previously, then-LtC Hal Moore told his lieutenants and captains that, among other things, their status as officers would not keep them above the danger.
I think a lot about people who intentionally stir
just to see what floats to the top, not because they are worthy of thought, but because some of us know what's going to float up and want no part of it. The others, IMHO, should be the ones who have to pick up a rifle and stand for something. We'd see an end to blood-stained "journalism" awfully fast. Likewise, if a President (or, y'know, Obama) wants to issue an EO that he says he thinks will stop crime, let him back his words up with action. Come try to take what belongs to the average American who values what he's built and what he owns. I don't mean send someone, I mean you, yourself, come and try. If you're not willing to do that, go find a golf course somewhere and leave your pen and your phone in the office.
As for us... we need to be focusing on action. Lobbying works, so does teaching new shooters. So do a few other (legal) actions.
We can be pissed off and paralyzed by that anger or we can channel it into work.
Blessings,
Bill
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