-
Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
Herald Times Online to publish carry permits
- Thread starter Ahab
- Start date
-
- Tags
- media war on guns
The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
SavageEagle
Grandmaster
- Apr 27, 2008
- 19,568
- 38
Here's the email that I think jd was referring to. I thought I would post it here for those that don't get the letter. At the end it lists names, numbers, emails of those at the HT and their advertisers. I can't help but think that some of our very own INGO members influenced this alert just by the wording....
So, going after their advertisers is OK now that the NRA says it's OK? LOL. Back around page 4 or 5 it was a useless endeavour.
A few people protesting outside may not do much good, but taking away business will. I have accounts at the IU Credit Union that I will be closing this weekend because they advertise in the HT. They will be politely informed of the reason they are losing my business and that they can expect many of my friends and coworkers to do the same.
We will not win a philosophical battle with the HT, but we can hurt them and their advertisers in the wallet. If enough of us do that we can win the war.
We will not win a philosophical battle with the HT, but we can hurt them and their advertisers in the wallet. If enough of us do that we can win the war.
SavageEagle
Grandmaster
- Apr 27, 2008
- 19,568
- 38
I never said it would work. I never said that it would change anything. I just passed along the email that was mentioned. I'm not going to waste my time with the advertisers because 1) I don't do business with any of them anyway and 2) Just because a group of gun owners stop doing business with them doesn't mean you're really hurting their bottom line.
I posted that email because not everyone gets the alerts and the language in the email sounded like techres wrote it.
Yes, I still think going after the advertisers is a useless endeavour.
They, Indiana State Police, say they have to release the information, freedom of information.
So I Joe private citizen can go in and request all information on Indiana gun owners, without consideration of my intent. They might be required to provide the information, but it is intended for private use or a specific purpose, not public display. Whoever else needs the information can also request it. The fact that they have been provided a complete database should have raised questions. My thoughts on debunking would be to go in and make a request for the complete data base and see what happens. Bet you don't get it!
So I Joe private citizen can go in and request all information on Indiana gun owners, without consideration of my intent. They might be required to provide the information, but it is intended for private use or a specific purpose, not public display. Whoever else needs the information can also request it. The fact that they have been provided a complete database should have raised questions. My thoughts on debunking would be to go in and make a request for the complete data base and see what happens. Bet you don't get it!
Just a thought here, but I'm curious why I haven't heard anyone making the following argument:
In the Heller case, SCOTUS recognized the right to gun ownership as a fundamental right. It is on par with things like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, right to vote, right to privacy, and Equal Protection which includes things like the right to marry a person of any race and the right to procreate outside of marriage. Arguably the right to keep arms is an even stronger right than court-created rights such as abortion, and in some states gay marriage.
Do states require registration or a permitting system for citizens who exercise these rights? Can you image the uproar if citizens were required by a state to obtain a permit before practicing a religion? (True, one must register to vote, but I think that is a procedural necessity, without which the voting process could not happen; people also must obtain marriage licenses, and I'm sure there is some kind of state paperwork for abortions.)
But now imagine that not only must you obtain a permit to practice your religion, but that information could be publicly accessed and placed in a searchable database by an irresponsible news organization (I understand the HT does not make addresses known - but they could because they have legal access to that information). What about a searchable database showing where legally married gay couples live? Or even a searchable database showing where interracial couples live? Can you imagine the uproar that would occur?
The point is that gun rights are on par with every other constitutionally prescribed fundamental right, and should be treated the same. Arguably, the idea of even requiring a permit is unconstitutional. Yet the idea of making right-exercising citizen’s information publicly available is not only novel compared to all other fundamental rights, but it casts gun-owners as problem citizens who should be tracked and identified by non-gun-owning neighbors.
I find it offensive, and I wish the best to those of you working with our state legislature to remedy this problem.
In the Heller case, SCOTUS recognized the right to gun ownership as a fundamental right. It is on par with things like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, right to vote, right to privacy, and Equal Protection which includes things like the right to marry a person of any race and the right to procreate outside of marriage. Arguably the right to keep arms is an even stronger right than court-created rights such as abortion, and in some states gay marriage.
Do states require registration or a permitting system for citizens who exercise these rights? Can you image the uproar if citizens were required by a state to obtain a permit before practicing a religion? (True, one must register to vote, but I think that is a procedural necessity, without which the voting process could not happen; people also must obtain marriage licenses, and I'm sure there is some kind of state paperwork for abortions.)
But now imagine that not only must you obtain a permit to practice your religion, but that information could be publicly accessed and placed in a searchable database by an irresponsible news organization (I understand the HT does not make addresses known - but they could because they have legal access to that information). What about a searchable database showing where legally married gay couples live? Or even a searchable database showing where interracial couples live? Can you imagine the uproar that would occur?
The point is that gun rights are on par with every other constitutionally prescribed fundamental right, and should be treated the same. Arguably, the idea of even requiring a permit is unconstitutional. Yet the idea of making right-exercising citizen’s information publicly available is not only novel compared to all other fundamental rights, but it casts gun-owners as problem citizens who should be tracked and identified by non-gun-owning neighbors.
I find it offensive, and I wish the best to those of you working with our state legislature to remedy this problem.
SavageEagle
Grandmaster
- Apr 27, 2008
- 19,568
- 38
Don't forget you also have to have a license to protest in most cities. They only way around that is to sidestep every rule requiring such a license. And yes, you have to pay for that license. You also have to have an FCC license to broadcast your freedom of speech through the airwaves. So we couldn't freely start a radio station or TV station without permission from the FCC.
So who knows. Maybe one day they WILL require you to register to practice religion.
So who knows. Maybe one day they WILL require you to register to practice religion.
They may want to re-think that, however, since only a small percentage of gunowners actually have a carry license.
Anyone have a recent number of Indiana gunowners?
So, then does this mean that under IC 5-14-3-3 the newspaper must provide copies of this PUBLIC RECORD for NO CHARGE?
IC 5-14-3-3
Right to inspect and copy public agency records; electronic data storage; use of information for commercial purposes;Sec. 3. (a) Any person may inspect and copy the public records of any public agency during the regular business hours of the agency, except as provided in section 4 of this chapter. A request for inspection or copying must:
(1) identify with reasonable particularity the record being requested; and
(2) be, at the discretion of the agency, in writing on or in a form provided by the agency.
No request may be denied because the person making the request refuses to state the purpose of the request, unless such condition is required by other applicable statute.
(b) A public agency may not deny or interfere with the exercise of the right stated in subsection (a). The public agency shall either:
(1) provide the requested copies to the person making the request; or
(2) allow the person to make copies:
(A) on the agency's equipment; or
(B) on the person's own equipment.
IC 5-14-3-3
Right to inspect and copy public agency records; electronic data storage; use of information for commercial purposes;Sec. 3. (a) Any person may inspect and copy the public records of any public agency during the regular business hours of the agency, except as provided in section 4 of this chapter. A request for inspection or copying must:
(1) identify with reasonable particularity the record being requested; and
(2) be, at the discretion of the agency, in writing on or in a form provided by the agency.
No request may be denied because the person making the request refuses to state the purpose of the request, unless such condition is required by other applicable statute.
(b) A public agency may not deny or interfere with the exercise of the right stated in subsection (a). The public agency shall either:
(1) provide the requested copies to the person making the request; or
(2) allow the person to make copies:
(A) on the agency's equipment; or
(B) on the person's own equipment.
No
The newspaper is not a public agency. You can demand to inspect and copy the public records that various government offices maintain, but once you copy them, a third party would not have a right to inspect your copies, they would have to get the records the same way you did.
The newspaper is not a public agency. You can demand to inspect and copy the public records that various government offices maintain, but once you copy them, a third party would not have a right to inspect your copies, they would have to get the records the same way you did.
I recieved my copy 4 days ago, 2 copies on CD. I was not asked anything, other than "What other lists are you ordering today?"
You, Joe private citizen, are allowed oversight on all monies going to and fro, which is why this information is public to begin with. If you want privacy, don't pay fees. Fees are the papertrail.
To make this go away, you need your rights back, no paper trail, like WI or Alaska.
Kirk Freeman
Grandmaster
When you say Wisconsin, you mean Vermont, right?
SirRealism
Master
- Nov 17, 2008
- 1,779
- 38
Are there any rules regarding what you can do with that data? Are you free to duplicate, distribute, and publish as you wish?
Wisconsin, OC, no papertrail to use a handgun for hunting, shooting, range work, or opening watermelons quickly (I saw pictures from Lovemywoods!). No paper trail.
I realize no car carry, no CC. My response was related to the paper trail in general.
If there are other state (Vermont perhaps) I am not aware.
I am not aware of any limitation. I have been purchasing such lists for years, but admit my imagination for evil is not what it once was! Ha!
I am an Engineer (boring) working in a Marketing role (real boring), and buy public lists quite frequently, when they match the demographic of my customers.
When this thread started, my initial reaction was not to crawl under a rock because I'm a gun owner with a LTCH in Indiana. It was to see if this list is as boring as all the others I have seen. I was correct.
This list is public because it is funded, and hence, will probably remain public. Kill the funding (License) and the list dies with it.
Site Supporter
Members online
- STEEL CORE
- cavemike
- bf5565
- gds
- Tankerdave
- sbrville
- Cuasi
- Ethanhoosier1
- Kirk Freeman
- alc1985
- gdog243
- HoosierHunter07
- dnurk
- hoosierdaddy1976
- Romero Zombie
- billybob44
- jtmiller951
- Born2vette
- Ingomike
- YankeeDollar
- diver dan
- profjeremy
- DoggyDaddy
- cosermann
- AndreusMaximus
- KLB
- res04
- Crandall Crank
- 92FSTech
- jkaetz
- flyingsquirrel
- nhgluff
- miguel
- speytyer
- Cavman
- littletommy
- Bstarkey_46947
- Edged Tools
- OneBadV8
- djlaundry2000
- BE Mike
- wtburnette
- gdun67
- Peacekeeper3073
- keeph8n
- aclark
- carsgunsandgirls
- SEH0521
- Leadeye
- INgunowner