Herald Times Online to publish carry permits

[ArmedProgrammer]

What a terrible idea. I would feel a lot less safe with my info published. The old home protected by 357 signs are a great way to be broken into and this is along the same lines

You say that you "would feel a lot less safe" with your info published...

Guess what? Do you have an LTCH? if so, it's published! Voila!

<sarcasm>
6Birds might even be able to tell you what color your underwear is...
</sarcasm>

I keed... I keed... I joke with you....

What's NOT a joke - and I'm sure that anyone that's worked with databases will tell you is that it's not hard to scour up some pretty amazing info on people - in a hurry.

I only use 6Birds as an example - and please jump in here if I'm off base 6B... but pretty much any business dude or dudette that wants to dredge up the info, can. And it currently isn't that hard. 32 bucks for the whole magilla as I recall.

My point is - it's not a terrible idea, as it stands now, it's a terrible REALITY.

 

[bwframe]

Welcome to the forum duckhunt! Glad to have you as part of our community. Your brother in law would be welcome also. With all due respect to him, he would have a much better understanding of his subject matter if he spent a little time here.

I look forward to hearing what you all have to say.

I would be repeating what others have posted for the most part. However, as a long time daily HT subscriber, I can address this...

...Since the time the stories were published, him AND MY SISTER have had their lives threatened, threats to kill their dog, threats to find what cars they drive and vandalize them, threats to follow them home, etc. This is uncalled for.

I believe you are addressing the wrong group here. Indiana LTCH holders are very unlikely to be the ones making the threats to your family. We would not risk losing our right to self defense by making foolish threats.
I would suggest your BIL work with the authorities in searching the HT subscriber database. The "comments" section of his online articles have a fair amount of very virulent anti-gunners. It is quite apparent that they will stop at nothing to advance their cause.

 

[Lars]

Letter #2 Written:

Dear {Senator Gard / Representative Richardson},

I previously wrote you regarding the Herald Times in Bloomington, IN and their publishing of the License To Carry a Handgun database on their website. I expressed how this issue causes serious privacy concerns for law-abiding citizens. This provides an avenue for criminals looking for streets that are easy targets, either with a low number of known gun owners or a high likelihood of finding firearms in the home they can steal, making our streets far less safe. Allowing the list of people who are licensed to carry a handgun to be public is no different than publishing a database that says fourteen African Americans live on Brookschool Road or seventeen Jews live on 126th street. Would making such a list serve the Public's interest at all? It would certainly make it easier for those who wish to commit hate crimes against others easier.

This database is required to be made available to the public under Indiana Code 5-14-3. I humbily request that you author or support legislation to change this code to make private the database for use by Law Enforcement Officers only in relationship to a case under investigation.

Thank you for taking the time to listen to a concerned citizen in your district. I look forward to your thoughts on this issue.

 

[Ahab]

This issue is now getting national attention. I was on Fox News yesterday debating Dennis Henigan of the Brady Campaign about it. Since that segment aired, I've heard that the Herald Times has started to receive a new flood of calls and emails, which is great.

Like everyone is doing, I still encourage Hoosiers to contact their state reps and support legislation to change the laws!

 

[inav8r]

I look forward to hearing what you all have to say.

His post count (1) and this sentence = TROLL.

Don't fall for it people.

 

[inav8r]

My favorite part from the fox news report, "6 murders committed by CCW holders in the USA". How many murders were committed by non CCW holders? How many by Indiana LTCH holders?

I hate when these groups present arguments without context or omit the part that makes their argument sound weak.

 

[thompal]

And in typical gun-grabber fashion, he spews lies: "over 500 VIOLENT criminals with extensive criminal backgrounds in just TWO COUNTIES have been issued carry permits."

Since that would seem to be claiming that ISP is breaking the law, maybe Handgun Control Inc should be sued for slander.

You've just gotta love the logic: 'the state police break the law by issuing licenses to violent felons, so we should endanger the lives of every LTCH holder in the state." It just shows how much HCI really cares about people's safety.

 

[melensdad]

His post count (1) and this sentence = TROLL.

Don't fall for it people.

I don't see him as a troll.

Actually what I see is that he is probably 1 of many who are viewing this thread and looking for signs of intelligent life in the pro-gun community. I suspect that his post may be real, but even if not, it did illicit some excellent discussion on why the newspaper was wrong in what they did.

Certainly this is not the first time that journalists have done shameful acts, and it is also not the first time that they have seen the tables turned and had their names/addresses published as part of the backlash. Neither is good. Nor is it the first time the journalists have been threatened . . . supposedly by gun owners??? But again, none of this should be surprising. It is simply history repeating itself.

We, as responsible gun owners, and responsible license holders, must uphold a higher standard. We should ALSO demand that the I.S.P. do its job and deny felons, violent offenders and other criminals a LTCH.

Not sure about you folks, but I want my LTCH to very clearly show me as a good guy. I want it to mean that I am squeaky clean and that my integrity as an honest and law abiding citizen is beyond reproach. That said, we have a problem with our own State Police not enforcing the state law, and we have a newspaper that exposes that problem. The newspaper has gone TOO FAR and is now exposing each of us, which may put our lives, families and properties in danger. That is wrong. But the fact that they exposed the I.S.P. is right. The fact that our LTCH does not, in fact, mean we are honest citizens is troubling and that should be corrected.

So we have to deal with this situation.

First, we contact our legislators and ask them to make these lists private. But second, and just as important, we ask them to force the I.S.P. to follow the law and only issue a LTCH to an honest citizen.

 

[SavageEagle]

Commercial Appeal, Memphis, TN, DOES have their carry permit holder's database listed.

Look under PUBLIC SAFETY! and you'll see it...

Data Center Information & News from The Commercial Appeal (Memphis, TN)

More databases

• Sex offenders search
• FBI Hate Crimes
• Crime in Memphis since 1995
• FBI Uniform Crime Reports
• Tennessee Handgun Carry Permits
• Aviation Safety
• Railroad Accidents
• Traffic Cameras

HOWEVER, they do not list by street, only by city/town and that's it. Nothing like this database the HT printed.

Tennessee Handgun Carry Permits Information & News from The Commercial Appeal (Memphis, TN)

On top of all that, they NATIONALLY told everyone and even those that see that youtube video, that the database is publicly available.

You did a good job Ahab. I don't think I could have kept my cool talking to that slandering POS.

 

[draben]

Caleb did an excellent job of professionally representing Indiana gun owners. Nice work!

Contrastingly, that anti-gun nut missed the issue. He had no response to the concerns Caleb addressed. Instead he argued that these databases serve the public by allowing the media to determine what known criminals have permits. Is it the function of the media to identify problems or abuses in a permit-issuing system? Yes. Is it the function of the media to police the issue through public databases? Absolutely not. That's why we have an executive branch.

On a side note, I don't understand how anyone could find credibility in anti-gun arguments relying on facts showing that a permit holder committed a gun crime. He said "six multiple shootings" by permit holders. That means nothing without perspective. I hope people don't buy that kind of manipulative nonsense. It should be obvious that the number of non-permit holder gun crimes far outweighs the number of permit-holder gun crimes.

 

[SavageEagle]

and just as important, we ask them to force the I.S.P. to follow the law and only issue a LTCH to an honest citizen.

And I'm not an honest person? I have a criminal background. That doesn't make me dishonest. I have 3 misdemeanor charges, but I am not a criminal. I'm a father, I'm a husband, and I have every right to defend myself as you or anyone else.

Be careful going down that road of "proper person" or "honest person". Just because someone has a criminal record does NOT mean they are the wrong person to allow carry.

Something that the idiot from the brady bunch didn't mention, some of those, if not all of those, ccw holders that DID commit crimes, either had no criminal record or didn't use a gun at all in their crimes. 500 people in two counties? There have not been 500 shootings or attempted shootings or firearms violations in 2 counties by LTCH holders here in Indiana. SHOW ME THE DATA. He's lying through his false teeth.

 

[thompal]

We, as responsible gun owners, and responsible license holders, must uphold a higher standard. We should ALSO demand that the I.S.P. do its job and deny felons, violent offenders and other criminals a LTCH.

Not sure about you folks, but I want my LTCH to very clearly show me as a good guy. I want it to mean that I am squeaky clean and that my integrity as an honest and law abiding citizen is beyond reproach. That said, we have a problem with our own State Police not enforcing the state law, and we have a newspaper that exposes that problem. The newspaper has gone TOO FAR and is now exposing each of us, which may put our lives, families and properties in danger. That is wrong. But the fact that they exposed the I.S.P. is right. The fact that our LTCH does not, in fact, mean we are honest citizens is troubling and that should be corrected.

So we have to deal with this situation.

That is assuming that the guy from HCI was telling the truth, which is never something I assume from them. They tell so many lies, half-truths, and mis-directions, that I simply assume that everything out of their mouths after 'hi, my name is. . .' is a complete fabrication.

The only way that they can convince people to send them money (LOTS of money) is to use scare-tactics: making wild, baseless claims to the un-informed public.

There IS a slim chance that there is one small grain of truth in his claim - maybe one person slipped through the cracks. I doubt it, but I suppose it is possible. About as possible as Obama turning out to be a fantastic, Constitution-loving president.

 

[thompal]

It should be obvious that the number of non-permit holder gun crimes far outweighs the number of permit-holder gun crimes.

Don't forget that to the anti-rights person, defending yourself or your family with a firearm is a crime. It is their opinion that if you or your family are confronted by a criminal, it is your DUTY as a citizen to give them whatever they want, including your life. To deny the criminal access to YOUR property is a crime.

 

[techres]

His post count (1) and this sentence = TROLL.

Don't fall for it people.

I do not see a troll necessarily, and I hate to jump to that conclusion. It is just like those that jumped to the conclusion that Michael Malik was a muslim or arabic name when in this case it is a variant of an eastern european one. Go figure, who knew?

Go with what we know, and know 100%. Otherwise we cannot get to the end we want.

Keep up efforts with legislators. Last night Tomes of the 2A Patriots was a guest on the Appleseed Radio Show. I called in and thanked him for his efforts and asked him about the status of things legislatively. He said there are legislators prepared with language and ready to move on this as soon as the short session opens. He asked that we keep up the pressure with calls and letters. here.You can listen here if you want.

Work hard guys, keep it clean, get the job done.

 

[CarmelHP]

I have been following this thread for some time now. The main reason being the journalist at H-T that wrote the gun permit stories happens to be my brother-in-law.

I, like many of you, am a gun owner, whole-hearted conservative and a firm believer in the second ammendment. On the other hand, I am also a firm believer in treating humans as humans. Since the time the stories were published, him AND MY SISTER have had their lives threatened, threats to kill their dog, threats to find what cars they drive and vandalize them, threats to follow them home, etc. This is uncalled for.

Is this your b-i-l and sister?

I'm assuming that you might be Adam Trost of Russiaville (Western High School 2005, thereafter Purdue)? That information can be pieced together within a few minutes of web searches. Would you want other even MORE personal and sensitive information disseminated by a newspaper that might make you a victim of crime or harassment?

I didn't think so.

In addition, your brother-in-law seems to be making a habit of trying to abuse public information. In June 2008, a Michael Malik with the Journal & Courier in Lafayatte at the time, filed a complaint with the Indiana public information counselor. He was seeking to obtain personal information of those who had been cited for parking violations in Lafayette for a non-permitted use. One would think that releasing the names of parking violators would tend to embarrass them and subject them to ridicule. If I'm wrong on any of this, I apologize, but it's public information put out willingly and knowingly by the subjects, unlike those in the carry license database.

 

[MinuteMan47]

This issue is now getting national attention. I was on Fox News yesterday debating Dennis Henigan of the Brady Campaign about it. Since that segment aired, I've heard that the Herald Times has started to receive a new flood of calls and emails, which is great.

Like everyone is doing, I still encourage Hoosiers to contact their state reps and support legislation to change the laws!

This probably explains why the Herald-Times online site has been down all day...!!!

 

[SavageEagle]

This probably explains why the Herald-Times online site has been down all day...!!!

That's HILARIOUS!

 

[SirRealism]

This probably explains why the Herald-Times online site has been down all day...!!!

Well, the HT printed the story to get attention. I guess it worked.

They'll probably blame it on a denial of service attack.

 

[techres]

Well, the HT printed the story to get attention. I guess it worked.

They'll probably blame it on a denial of service attack.

They are back up now.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Herald Telephone for igniting the grass roots so we can make this information private and impose criminal sanctions on those who did violate or will violate our privacy.

This young reporter has does what a cranky lawyer in Lafayette has failed to do for decades.