Herald Times Online to publish carry permits

[Bill of Rights]

For the record I did contact the HT to ask what this data base was. He, a fellow named JJ, I forget the last name, explained it as has been presented here. I made my comments that if you were going to publish this information with names or street addresses, that it would be hightly irresponsible and a very big security risk. He assured me that the database was in more of a demographic nature and that they had a database of just Monroe county for a few years available. The only thing different is that this database would include all 92 counties of Indiana. He told me that Permit, rather LTCH information is readily available on request from the Sheriff's office. He seemed to understand the delicate nature of this information, and that this database was not to reveal specific people and addresses. Perhaps there does need to be a law against releasing this information, or at least require a printing of the name and address of all requesting this information, both online and in the newspaper. That might offer some accountability.

This is the problem.

• Oh, we're just publishing XX county.
• Oh, we've had one for just our county for a few years now. (long enough for the furor to die down and it to fade into obscurity) Now we're just going to expand the same database out to a statewide thing.
• Oh, we've had it as a statewide thing for a few years now. The only change we're making now is to publish the databases of all 50 states.
• Oh, we've had a nationwide list for a few years now. Now we're just going to stop masking names and addresses. The people have a right to know, after all! You can't censor us! First Amendment! Free Press!

It's incrementalist BS, and it's going to get people robbed. Some of those robbery victims will be hurt or killed.... but that's not their problem unless someone stops to think that if the information was kept private, the robbery would not have happened. From the libbie perspective, though, if we just didn't own those nasty guns, there would be no information to publish.

This needs to be stopped. Cold.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Dr Falken]

@BOR
Do you know what exactly the DB contains?

@All
So what is the form that we would need to fil out to get the DB?
It is online somewhere? Or is there a phone number to start the process?

When I contacted the HT, the gentleman that I talked to said that this information was available from a county, via the Sheriffs office. He did not mention a fee. Perhaps a call to your local Sheriff's office would verify this information? Perhaps the HT contacted all 92 Sheriff's offices, or does the ISP also maintain a database, after all they are notified when you change your address. Do they maintain information beyond this, or have I missed a post that detailed another database?

 

[IndyBeerman]

Yes, by all means, let us politely tell the HT that this is a moronic idea.

However, a better use of our energy is to change the law and remove this database from the public record.

Of course, I've been saying this for decades, but who listens to me.

The publisher doesn't care. The editorial staff is the hardest of the hardest core leftists there are.

Changing the law would be the best fit solution.

As far as the ed-staff and the publisher not caring, I'm not exactly surprised by that, so that's why I'd really like to hit them in the wallet. Canceling subscriptions and getting advertisers to pull out would be really nice.

Changing the law will take minimum 6 months so other means must be done.

Want to combat this nicely.

Get the street of all that are involved, ( everyone involved at the paper from writer, editor ect... ) take out a nice ad in a competing paper with the street names of them listed. Make them feel singled out and at risk just as they could to to a person on that data base that has only a few homes on it. Fight reason with reason, print with print. At times like this the pen can be mightier than the sword!

Getting people to cancel subscriptions is a slow and lengthy process that will not have much results because people that it does not effect will not care.

 

[jedi]

When I contacted the HT, the gentleman that I talked to said that this information was available from a county, via the Sheriffs office. He did not mention a fee. Perhaps a call to your local Sheriff's office would verify this information? Perhaps the HT contacted all 92 Sheriff's offices, or does the ISP also maintain a database, after all they are notified when you change your address. Do they maintain information beyond this, or have I missed a post that detailed another database?

In the "related thread" on this topic see here:
(warning very long)
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...990-reporter_wants_to_talk_to_gun_owners.html

It was stated that the reported paid $32 to the ISP and they in turn provided him with a CD that has the database of all the LTCH info they have. The $32 goes to a contrator that creates the physcial CD and mails it to you. ISP does not retain any of the money.

What I am not clear on is what that information is? I would assume it's name and address along with perhaps phone number of all LTCHs.

So the question is still what form do I need or does someone have a phone number so that I can get the DB.

 

[CarmelHP]

Get the street of all that are involved, ( everyone involved at the paper from writer, editor ect... ) take out a nice ad in a competing paper with the street names of them listed.

Which paper would that be?

 

[inav8r]

I would not be happy if anybody could get a photo copy of my signed application...

From Lt. Berkey, at ISP Firearms Licensing Section, they get only the information in the database, NOT copies of the license application.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to spread false information. Thanks for correcting me. This is good to know.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Which paper would that be?

Just for a start:

• Magazines
  • Matrix Magazine - Bloomington
    Monthly magazine dedicated to providing consistent public forums for literary and visual artists around Bloomington, IN.
    www.matrixmag.com
• Newspapers > College and University
  • Indiana University, Bloomington - Indiana Daily Student - Bloomington
    Online companion to the newsprint Indiana Daily Student.
    www.idsnews.com

Maybe the Martinsville Repoter, anything else from surrounding towns.

I'm not from B-town, but users from Monroe county can target them and should know the local and little papers around the county.

 

[SavageEagle]

I contacted the ISP to see if they could tell me what kind of information is in the database and the procedure to get the info. I also expressed my concern about the news agencies having their hands on this info.

Maybe I'll get a reply and they'll tell me if names and addresses are in there. I would assume they are since they can list by street, but then again that could just be all the info there is... By street, town/city, and county.

However, business hours ended at 4pm so maybe I'll get a response tomorrow. I'll post it if I do.

 

[jedi]

Thanks SE... Inqury about buying the DB as well please.

 

[SavageEagle]

Thanks SE... Inqury about buying the DB as well please.

I did so. I'll keep you updated if I get anything.

 

[NateIU10]

Nefarious looking character.

Indeed. Something can't be right with someone that owns a Glock.

Nate You are an excellent ambassador for our cause. you are the kind of sensible young person who make up for all the troubling young libs we find flocking to our fare city. I think your efforts and those of techres were very helpfull in averting the smear many of us feared might have happend in the article.

do you have to be a subscriber to access the database?

The HT, yes. The IndyStar, no, but the Indy one is far less info

This is the problem.

• Oh, we're just publishing XX county.
• Oh, we've had one for just our county for a few years now. (long enough for the furor to die down and it to fade into obscurity) Now we're just going to expand the same database out to a statewide thing.
• Oh, we've had it as a statewide thing for a few years now. The only change we're making now is to publish the databases of all 50 states.
• Oh, we've had a nationwide list for a few years now. Now we're just going to stop masking names and addresses. The people have a right to know, after all! You can't censor us! First Amendment! Free Press!

It's incrementalist BS, and it's going to get people robbed. Some of those robbery victims will be hurt or killed.... but that's not their problem unless someone stops to think that if the information was kept private, the robbery would not have happened. From the libbie perspective, though, if we just didn't own those nasty guns, there would be no information to publish.

This needs to be stopped. Cold.

Blessings,
Bill

Completely agree Repped

 

[Mr. Habib]

I wouldn't sweat this being in the Horrible Times too much. I just tried searching their database, and true to form, the HT couldn't get it right even when it's handed to them. The two streets that I have personal knowledge of permit holders on are both WRONG in their database. Moreover searching the same street in different ways gave me different results. The abject lack of fact checking, stating opinion as fact, and shameless bias are the reasons I stopped subscribing years ago. I think their readership is dropping like a prom dress, and that is why they are printing this . They must be desperate for new subscribers. Why else are they delivering everyday to everyone in my neighborhood, even those of us that don't subscribe?

 

[Bill of Rights]

@BOR
Do you know what exactly the DB contains?

@All
So what is the form that we would need to fil out to get the DB?
It is online somewhere? Or is there a phone number to start the process?

I'm sure it has name, address, city, and zip.

I'm reasonably sure it has type of permit (personal protection/ hunting & target/ Retired LEO/ Firearms dealer)

I think it also includes age/gender/race.

I am unaware of any other info that may be in there.

This is based on the info I've seen on db postings on here, not on any official source.

Ryan, if you find out more, please post.

Thanks,
Blessings,
Bill

 

[SavageEagle]

I'm sure it has name, address, city, and zip.

I'm reasonably sure it has type of permit (personal protection/ hunting & target/ Retired LEO/ Firearms dealer)

I think it also includes age/gender/race.

I am unaware of any other info that may be in there.

This is based on the info I've seen on db postings on here, not on any official source.

Ryan, if you find out more, please post.

Thanks,
Blessings,
Bill

I will do so. If someone buys my car soon, I'll buy the data as well. I will not release it openly, and I won't just release the whole of the data, but if I get a chance to buy the data I'll let you all know what it contains. Rest assured I would never use the data for any nefarious or dubious reasons and I wouldn't sell the info or release it to the public. Chances are I'll end up destroying it eventually, but for my own piece of mind I would like to see what it contains and if it's all the info or just select fields available to the public.

I would be DELIGHTED to find that the public info that they do release doesn't contain any kind of personal information and that it's all demographic, but I fear that's not the case.

 

[drillsgt]

Thanks for being a good rep Nate. We definitely need more shooters in the IUB area that's for sure. I'll be back in the mix come January, work at IUPUI, take grad courses at IUB. Am I able to carry to work yet?

 

[Jack Ryan]

I think you are worried over nothing. I sure wouldn't be sweating it if I were one of you guys beating the drum for open carry.

A Riley Blvd Bedford Lawrence 1G1 - four year personal protection

How can you argue that standing in the line at the bank window with a 44 on your hip encourages bank robbers to move on rather than carry out their plan and yet this makes you a target for attack or robbery.

At least one or the other is a ridiculous assumption if not both arguements.

 

[rex soldier]

it would be cooler if it was the other way around .
A Novel Idea. Register non-gun owners - Patriotic Resistance

 

[NateIU10]

it would be cooler if it was the other way around .
A Novel Idea. Register non-gun owners - Patriotic Resistance

Haha, it's the same thing ultimately. You register everyone who doesn't own a gun, you have just created a de-facto list of gun owners

 

[bonsaijackson]

Some streets are not very long and, there are not many houses (like mine). If there were 6 houses and 4 permits this is essentially narrowing the odds to uncomfortable in my book. An afternoon of watching could tell you who of the people on my road are more likely to have guns. Knowing there were 4 of 6 odds would lead a hoodlum to this realization. This is not cool.

 

[lashicoN]

I think you are worried over nothing. I sure wouldn't be sweating it if I were one of you guys beating the drum for open carry.



How can you argue that standing in the line at the bank window with a 44 on your hip encourages bank robbers to move on rather than carry out their plan and yet this makes you a target for attack or robbery.

At least one or the other is a ridiculous assumption if not both arguements.

They aren't the same thing, whatsoever, though. This is obviously a database of GUN OWNERS who applied for a LTCH. Are you home 24/7 Jack Ryan? Because if a robber had your address and knew you owned guns, I doubt they would break in when they knew you were home. They would probably wait until everyone left for work, go in, take the guns, cash, whatever else and leave. I'm sure your guns are safe though. If you're too ashamed to show them in public while you carry, I'm sure you have them hiding under your floorboards. (Completely joking, I'm just spouting the usual CC Vs OC argument here )But seriously, this is why we should have never allowed Indiana to create a license to carry. Vermont will never have a database like this, because everyone is allowed to carry, without a license. It's a right to keep and bear arms anyway. Licenses are for privileges, like driving.