Hamilton County Nazis?

[KLB]

Again, I’ll point to how differences in worldviews impact’s interpretation. People with a right leaning worldview understand the quote to be a warning and an accusation against the left, not an endorsement, because they all understand the problem the same way.

People with a left wing worldview see it as an endorsement, because to them, the only reason right wing people would quote Hitler, is because they agree with him.

About that worldview, the problem is that you guys have been telling yourselves in bad faith for so long that the right wing is next to Nazism, that you now believe it. So to you, (collectively "you") the most natural interpretation, the easy one, isn't ever the charitable one. And by charitable, I mean the most rational one.

Okay, so is it really an unforced error for a right wing parent's advocacy group to use a Hitler quote to warn people about what the left wing clown people are doing? In other words, did it even occur to you that they're identifying who is really on Hitler's side here?

Is it an unforced error? An unforced error to me is 1) to do something that undermines your potential for success, and 2) in such a way that even the least charitable interpretation of it is also the correct one.

Should this group have anticipated all the ways opponents might apply the least charitable AND incorrect interpretation? That list is infinite. Hitler quote or no, you guys already think they're Nazis anyway. So any mention of Hitler, no matter the context, is all clown world's eager to be clutched pearls need.

Since simply adding a little context would have stopped this mess, in today's environment, yes it was an unforced error. You have to be cognizant of how things can be twisted, and work to not make it easy.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Tony Katz has said many times, "Don't use The Holocaust as a prop." I have to agree with that, no matter the intent of the citation it never works out well.

At the same time, parents/parent groups (like the one in HC) who dare speak out at school board meetings are labeled domestic terrorists by the AG. The SPLC (who does cite themselves more than college professors) called a similar group "extremist".

A lot of folks realized something happened to our country, me included.

 

[jamil]

You could just label that whole corner "ClownWorld™". I've kinda stopped calling it "woke". It is what it is. A world proposed by clowns.

 

[jamil]

Since simply adding a little context would have stopped this mess, in today's environment, yes it was an unforced error. You have to be cognizant of how things can be twisted, and work to not make it easy.

I don't think these are sophisticated people with a budget for a publicist. Also like I said, the Left thinks everyone on the right are Nazis anyway. I don't think there is any context in which they would not have called them Nazis.

I don't expect a group like this to anticipate all the uncharitable ways the people who hate them could interpret a meaning. But I agree, they could have explicitly stated that they mean that ClownWorld™ is adopting Nazi tactics. It's obvious to their intended audience that this is what they meant. But adding the context would not have changed anything IMO. They'd have called them Nazis anyway.

 

[bobzilla]

So quoting someone somehow means you associate with them and agree with them?

That's a really delusional way of thinking.

That what leftists do. Delusional is their default mode

 

[Jaybird1980]

The left is following Hitlers plan to a T and they want to call everyone else a Nazi.

They control the media, the press and try to censor people who speak against them.
Try to rule by decree instead of passing laws. (executive orders, ATF)
Try to increase their share of the vote (bussing people to different areas of the country, controlling who counts the vote)
Try to invoke panic by telling lies (the right is the biggest threat to democracy, they're white supremacists, terrorists, Russian collision, etc)
Try to persecute and imprison opponents or opposition.
Weaponize a federal police (FBI, DOJ)

They did all this while calling themselves moderates and calling any opposition extremist threats.

 

[BugI02]

Re: the "Democrats are 10x worse" allusion. . . The Democrats are lagging behind the Chinese Communists with their over 100 Million killed, and the Russian Communists with their 60 or 70 million killed, but they're trying to catch up. Let me just mention the over 40 MILLION unborn babies they've enabled to be killed over the past 50 years or so. The rate of deaths has slowed down, but the Democrat Party is still out there swinging for Abortion On Demand. . . among other things. . .

And if we really want to draw the line between the Left and Nazi beliefs, they don't believe those babies were murdered because they simply don't consider them real people, just like the Nazis didn't consider Romani and Jews to be real people, deserving of life and liberty

 

[BugI02]

You’re the boss.

It has never been my intent to troll, and I am not looking to get into an altercation with the moderators here, but I do want to clarify what you are requesting…

“So unless you can provide proof that this group indeed supports Hitler's ideals and wasnt just inarticulate, knock it off”

Please try to realize: I am not claiming this group supports Hitler…I’m pointing out that unforced errors like these reinforce the perception among the center and the left that the right has a nazi problem.

I literally cannot comply with your request because I am not making the argument you accuse me of...are you saying that if I continue to post in this thread I will be banned?

Don't argue balls and strikes with the umpires. It always ends badly

Make such arguments respectfully in a PM. You can have your say, but don't expect much change in a decision already made after much consultation among the mods

 

[BugI02]

the problem is that you guys have been telling yourselves in bad faith for so long that the right wing is next to Nazism, that you now believe it. So to you, (collectively "you") the most natural interpretation, the easy one, isn't ever the charitable one.

This mindset doesn't seem limited to Nazism, or his team for that matter

 

[jamil]

This mindset doesn't seem limited to Nazism, or his team for that matter

Why Bug. Whatever could you mean?

 

[Cameramonkey]

You’re the boss.

It has never been my intent to troll, and I am not looking to get into an altercation with the moderators here, but I do want to clarify what you are requesting…

“So unless you can provide proof that this group indeed supports Hitler's ideals and wasnt just inarticulate, knock it off”

Please try to realize: I am not claiming this group supports Hitler…I’m pointing out that unforced errors like these reinforce the perception among the center and the left that the right has a nazi problem.

I literally cannot comply with your request because I am not making the argument you accuse me of...are you saying that if I continue to post in this thread I will be banned?

You have repeatedly claimed they were Nazis or Nazi sympathizers without any proof. Other than they are conservatives, you are not, so they must be evil.

You are welcome to continue to participate in this thread. But if you continue to argue that point WITHOUT PROOF you will be escorted off the playground. Either temporarily or permanently.

So continue to participate in this thread at your own risk. You have been adequately warned. Personally? I'd suggest moving on. Others like you have thought they were good enough to continue without crossing the line. Inevitably, they eventually fail.

 

[JonN]

Could be some typical Dumbocrats posing or impersonating...just as they did during the "insurrection" on Capital Hill.

 

[Route 45]

I have proof that quoting Adolph Hitler is never a good idea, regardless of the point that you are trying to make.

 

[littletommy]

I heard Hitler liked pancakes, so I stopped eating pancakes, just to be safe.

 

[actaeon277]

Goebbels is quoted here, about propaganda.

Is INGO a NAZI site?

 

[LeftyGunner]

You have repeatedly claimed they were Nazis or Nazi sympathizers without any proof. Other than they are conservatives, you are not, so they must be evil.

This is not an accurate reading of my words, it is your misinterpretation of my words.

You are welcome to continue to participate in this thread. But if you continue to argue that point WITHOUT PROOF you will be escorted off the playground. Either temporarily or permanently.

But you have answered my question...you will ban me for failing to “prove” a position I never argued in the first place.

So continue to participate in this thread at your own risk. You have been adequately warned. Personally? I'd suggest moving on. Others like you have thought they were good enough to continue without crossing the line. Inevitably, they eventually fail.

Okay…understood.

This is why I asked for clarification. I will voluntarily remove myself from the thread to comply with your orders.

 

[BigRed]

Difference between "progressives" and "communists"?




The spelling.

 

[jamil]

Okay so we have a bit of a dueling ideology thing going on here. The left associates the right with Nazi/Fascism. The right associates the left with communism.

I can certainly say not all right wingers are Nazi's/Fascists. Hardly any of them are. That's a very fringe group. And they have no political power. The right wingers who don't agree with Nazi's/Fascists tell them they're not party to that. Nazi/Fascists have no place in mainstream conservatism. Progressives have to redefine both terms to claim it. That political compass graphic someone posted somewhere says it. To progressives, everyone who isn't a woke authoritarian is a Nazi/fascist.

So what about the left? Where are the moderate lefties pushing back on the communists? It's in the mainstream. They have almost all the political power right now. They control all the institutions. They come short of calling themselves communist, but they criticize capitalism while praising socialism and communist systems in the mainstream. Even the way they use terminology. They keep saying Republicans are trying to destroy "our democracy". Republicans, at least the America-first Republicans are trying desperately to save it.

 

[littletommy]

Okay so we have a bit of a dueling ideology thing going on here. The left associates the right with Nazi/Fascism. The right associates the left with communism.

I can certainly say not all right wingers are Nazi's/Fascists. Hardly any of them are. That's a very fringe group. And the right wingers who don't agree with Nazi's/Fascists tell them that. Nazi/Fascists have no place in mainstream conservatism. Progressives have to redefine both terms to claim it. That political compass graphic someone posted somewhere says it. To progressives, everyone who isn't a woke authoritarian is a Nazi/fascist.

So what about the left? Where are the moderate lefties pushing back on the communists? It's in the mainstream. They come short of calling themselves communist, but they criticize capitalism while praising socialism and communist systems in the mainstream. Even the way they use terminology. They keep saying Republicans are trying to destroy "our democracy". Republicans, at least the America-first Republicans are trying desperately to save it.

I live in Clark county, which is, if I had to guess, at least in the top 3 most conservative counties in the state. It is mind blowing that, right here in this county, I know of a few democrats that are in lockstep with the craziest commie democrats. That’s just the few that I know of, fortunately, I’m not around many.

We have a dem running for town council, he won his district in may, I’m only talking like 70 votes total, but still, this guy is a raging sky screaming leftist ****! He full on agrees with all the groomer BS, BLM, hates capitalism.

I don’t think he’ll win in November, but damn, he found 40 or so people that agree with his garbage.

I honestly believe the dems in control send out an email each week to their mouth breathing voters that reads “ok, here’s the issues we are pushing this week, now get out there and be obnoxious”!

 

[jamil]

This is not an accurate reading of my words, it is your misinterpretation of my words.

But you have answered my question...you will ban me for failing to “prove” a position I never argued in the first place.

@LeftyGunner fair enough. Let's see. Shouldn't take to long to quote some stuff that either confirms or rebuts what you were arguing. I'll mark the statements that tend to confirm in blue, and those that rebut in red.

Which might be believable if “Moms for Liberty” Twitter account had not tweeted (and deleted) “the 14 words” on the very same day:

What is it with MAGA and white supremacist talking points? Do you want people to associate you with the Nazis? In case you were wondering, this is why you get called Nazis by the rest of the political spectrum.

Personally, I’m glad to see the blowback…I hate Indiana nazis.

I don’t think you are wrong…at least, I think you have a valid point about the lack of context making it look worse.

I don’t think it makes sense to bring up Hitler unprompted at all…and certainly not without context…why even risk the association wIth, you know…Hitler.

…and tweeting white nationalist slogans doesn’t really help make their “we totally aren‘t nazi’s“ argument much stronger.

Absolutely fair…too on the nose, perhaps, indeed.

Now, who to believe?

On the one hand…it’s the internet. Yeah.

On the other hand…it’s people who unironically quote Hitler on the front page of their newsletter…

…I mean, I’m not going to get in their van willingly, if they ask me to.

Not off limits…nothing of the sort. You are free to associate yourself with Hitler all you want.




I don’t buy that for a second.

They posted a Hitler quote to the front page of their newsletter because they agree with Hitler.

When it comes to the optics, there are better ways to make just about any point than starting it off with “You know, Hitler was right…”

Just to comment on that last one, that's not an honest depiction of their quote. I don't think they were trying to say Hitler was right. They were saying the groomers adopting Hitler's strategy. Basically the Left is Literally Hitler would be a fairer depiction of what they're saying.

Maybe…but without context it looks like a mission statement.

From Hitler.

I agree that quoting someone is not the same as agreeing with someone.

However, in this case, this organization quoted Hitler because they agree with Hitler on the point he was making.

Thats also the source of the association…they didn’t have to bring Hitler into it at all, but they did. If you don’t want to be associated with Hitler, you probably shouldn’t lead a conversation with “we think Hitler was right about this”.

This is a group that wants to remove books from public school libraries in a state that allows unstructured homeschooling. This isn’t about what their kids see…they already have the option of total control over their own child’s curriculum...this is about limiting what other people’s children can see.

So to me, this group (without a hint of irony or context) choosing a quote from Hitler about controlling the education of children is as much about what they want to accomplish as it about what they claim they want to avoid.

So I don't think you've argued that they are indeed Nazis, per se. I can't get inside your head. But it looks to me like you've mostly argued that it's a bad look rather than that they are Nazis. But also you come really close to saying they're Nazis without explicitly saying so.