Hamas fires first rocket aimed at Jerusalem

[popsmoke]

Originally Posted by ZbornacSVT
Israel is the one we need to back until the end. As far as I'm concerned it is the only one we need to back....

Ditto on this one...."

I disagree. Israel is not only morally and legally wrong, but they're going to lose. They're a welfare state that are occupying a sovereign nation. They invaded Palestine, stole not only their land, but their houses, cars, groceries, clothes... the settlers literally knocked on the door with a gun and forced peaceful families into the street where many were murdered for resisting.

The Palestinians are just trying to defend their homes. What would you do if a Chinese diplomat showed up on your doorstep and told you that the government gave him your house, your property, and your belongings? You'd fight them to the bitter end, too. You'd fire crappy homemade rockets at them and expend all ammo whenever possible.

What the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is no different than what the US government did to the Native American tribes. And just like it took a while for the world to realize what atrocities were being committed in the name of government back then, it's taken a while for the world to realize what's going on in Gaza. I disagree with Obama on nearly every single thing he's ever said. But on his criticism of Israel, I applaud him. The rest of the US and the rest of the world is done giving them handouts as well. Israel is a sinking ship.

We don't need to back Israel. Israel won't even exist in 100 years, just like it didn't exist 100 years ago. We need to back the Palestinians, and the damn British need to step back in and regulate the s*** storm they created when they promised that land to both Baron Rothschild and to Prince Faisal during WWI to get it away from the Turks. While it's nice they've washed their hands of it, they need to hold themselves accountable for allowing the direct contravention of the Fourth Geneva Convention in one of their territories.

 

[iSaladbar]

 

[steveh_131]

I don't know about you guys, but I see lots of places in the Good Book where we are instructed to take money by force from other people and give it to Israel so that they can buy more guns. I'm reminded of it every time I look at my WWJD bracelet.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

Ezekiel makes very plain what happens next...

 

[netsecurity]

I disagree. Israel is not only morally and legally wrong, but they're going to lose. ...

What a load of crap. Israel took the Gaza strip and such after they were attacked from it, to turn it into a buffer and police it. They gave it back because Palestinians promised peace if they allowed a Palestinian state there, but now they are attacking Israel from there again.

You are a fool if you think the Palestinians will accept peace without taking all of Israel. And I believe most of the land that is now Israel belonged to the former British Empire, not Palestinians. And don't give me that Native American crap, because the Temple Mount stands proof that the Jews lived their thousands of years ago, as described in the Bible.

At worst you can say both lay claim to the same ground and need to compromise. Jews keep trying compromise, but keep getting attacked by militants who will never cease until Israel is erased from earth--therefore any compromise is a failure for Israel.

 

[Kutnupe14]

What a load of crap. Israel took the Gaza strip and such after they were attacked from it, to turn it into a buffer and police it. They gave it back because Palestinians promised peace if they allowed a Palestinian state there, but now they are attacking Israel from there again.

You are a fool if you think the Palestinians will accept peace without taking all of Israel. And I believe most of the land that is now Israel belonged to the former British Empire, not Palestinians. And don't give me that Native American crap, because the Temple Mount stands proof that the Jews lived their thousands of years ago, as described in the Bible.

At worst you can say both lay claim to the same ground and need to compromise. Jews keep trying compromise, but keep getting attacked by militants who will never cease until Israel is erased from earth--therefore any compromise is a failure for Israel.

I'd love to hear the terms of this "compromise."
And while technically correct that the the land in question was part of the British Empire, it overlooks that the area has been part of many empires. What it doesn't address, is from end of the 2nd Centry CE up until the mid 20th century.... 18 Centuries, the Arab population was the overwhelming majority floating from 98%-70% (last at 70% in 1946). And then, almost overnight the influx of European Jews made them a minority at 17% (1948).
Palestinian Conflict aside, you won't find a place on the planet where such a change in demographics could be done so peacefully.

 

[NYFelon]

I disagree. Israel is not only morally and legally wrong, but they're going to lose. They're a welfare state that are occupying a sovereign nation. They invaded Palestine, stole not only their land, but their houses, cars, groceries, clothes... the settlers literally knocked on the door with a gun and forced peaceful families into the street where many were murdered for resisting.

The Palestinians are just trying to defend their homes. What would you do if a Chinese diplomat showed up on your doorstep and told you that the government gave him your house, your property, and your belongings? You'd fight them to the bitter end, too. You'd fire crappy homemade rockets at them and expend all ammo whenever possible.

What the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is no different than what the US government did to the Native American tribes. And just like it took a while for the world to realize what atrocities were being committed in the name of government back then, it's taken a while for the world to realize what's going on in Gaza. I disagree with Obama on nearly every single thing he's ever said. But on his criticism of Israel, I applaud him. The rest of the US and the rest of the world is done giving them handouts as well. Israel is a sinking ship.

We don't need to back Israel. Israel won't even exist in 100 years, just like it didn't exist 100 years ago. We need to back the Palestinians, and the damn British need to step back in and regulate the s*** storm they created when they promised that land to both Baron Rothschild and to Prince Faisal during WWI to get it away from the Turks. While it's nice they've washed their hands of it, they need to hold themselves accountable for allowing the direct contravention of the Fourth Geneva Convention in one of their territories.

I'm no Israeli nuthugger, but this may be the dumbest **** I have ever read on this forum. And boy, that's saying something.

 

[David Sneden]

We need to back up Israel with all of our might, they are a small country that is surrounded by a bunch of radical nations of terror. For a nation founded on Christianity and freedom to turn their backs on the CHILDREN OF GOD ie. Israel would be the worst mistake in American history and would show the world that we are truly untrustworthy.

 

[ViperJock]

I disagree. Israel is not only morally and legally wrong, but they're going to lose. They're a welfare state that are occupying a sovereign nation. They invaded Palestine, stole not only their land, but their houses, cars, groceries, clothes... the settlers literally knocked on the door with a gun and forced peaceful families into the street where many were murdered for resisting.

The Palestinians are just trying to defend their homes. What would you do if a Chinese diplomat showed up on your doorstep and told you that the government gave him your house, your property, and your belongings? You'd fight them to the bitter end, too. You'd fire crappy homemade rockets at them and expend all ammo whenever possible.

What the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is no different than what the US government did to the Native American tribes. And just like it took a while for the world to realize what atrocities were being committed in the name of government back then, it's taken a while for the world to realize what's going on in Gaza. I disagree with Obama on nearly every single thing he's ever said. But on his criticism of Israel, I applaud him. The rest of the US and the rest of the world is done giving them handouts as well. Israel is a sinking ship.

We don't need to back Israel. Israel won't even exist in 100 years, just like it didn't exist 100 years ago. We need to back the Palestinians, and the damn British need to step back in and regulate the s*** storm they created when they promised that land to both Baron Rothschild and to Prince Faisal during WWI to get it away from the Turks. While it's nice they've washed their hands of it, they need to hold themselves accountable for allowing the direct contravention of the Fourth Geneva Convention in one of their territories.

Well your aren't worth the copper they are printed on. That was one of the least informed rants ever. Read much? or do you just call the nazis to get your news?

 

[Kutnupe14]

We need to back up Israel with all of our might, they are a small country that is surrounded by a bunch of radical nations of terror. For a nation founded on Christianity and freedom to turn their backs on the CHILDREN OF GOD ie. Israel would be the worst mistake in American history and would show the world that we are truly untrustworthy.

Our nation is NOT a theocracy. We, as a nation, owe them nothing. If you want to travel to Israel and fight for them, for a religious purpose, that's your business, and I won't knock it, and I'm sure the IDF will welcome you with open arms. However, don't propose that the entire nation take up arms to protect Israel based on prophecy.

 

[flagtag]

Those of us who are children of God DO owe Israel our support!
The Israelis were the ORIGINAL owners of the land. It was STOLEN from them CENTURIES ago! (When, they were taken as slaves)

They really don't even need to share it, but are willing for the sake of peace (which was not forthcoming)

I'm glad that Israel is fighting for their rights now. (About time!)

 

[IndyDave1776]

Our nation is NOT a theocracy. We, as a nation, owe them nothing. If you want to travel to Israel and fight for them, for a religious purpose, that's your business, and I won't knock it, and I'm sure the IDF will welcome you with open arms. However, don't propose that the entire nation take up arms to protect Israel based on prophecy.

You may wish to remember the deal Jimmy made with the in exchange for giving up the oil wells they ended up with while dealing with the 1973 preemptive attack. While the solid commitment only extends to that lost revenue, you may also wish to remember the nature of the people involved and that they are our best friends in the neighborhood. In case you forgot, the United States Navy was established with the construction of the 'six original frigates' for the purpose of fighting Moslems (their redirection into the quasi-war with France before being used for this purpose notwithstanding). We had problems there before Israel was re-established and we have had problems there since. The common denominator seems pretty obvious.

 

[steveh_131]

Those of us who are children of God DO owe Israel our support!
The Israelis were the ORIGINAL owners of the land. It was STOLEN from them CENTURIES ago! (When, they were taken as slaves)

I would love to see you extend this logic (for lack of a better term) to Native Americans.

I didn't take anyone's land. I have no interest in righting wrongs that happened centuries ago to people who are long dead.

If you feel that there is a moral imperative to fight for Israel, then pack up your Mosin and head over there. Leave the rest of us alone.

 

[flagtag]

If I were young and fit, I WOULD offer my help, then pack up and head there if accepted. I am not a coward.
I also think beyond myself - of others and my country.

Do you really think they would stop with Israel? NO! They want us ALL to become servants to their "God" and leadership. What then?

Stay in your "safehouse" for all I care. It's nothing to me. You are one of the few. Good luck.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You may wish to remember the deal Jimmy made with the in exchange for giving up the oil wells they ended up with while dealing with the 1973 preemptive attack. While the solid commitment only extends to that lost revenue, you may also wish to remember the nature of the people involved and that they are our best friends in the neighborhood. In case you forgot, the United States Navy was established with the construction of the 'six original frigates' for the purpose of fighting Moslems (their redirection into the quasi-war with France before being used for this purpose notwithstanding). We had problems there before Israel was re-established and we have had problems there since. The common denominator seems pretty obvious.

I did not forget, because that's not fact. The "frigates" were not established to fight "Moslems." I'm assuming youre speaking of the whole Barbary Pirates episode. The US engaged in conflict with them due to them being "pirates," not Moslems. The US actively engaged pirates from a variety of backgrounds (Chinese, French, Caribbean Mexican) it is short-sighted to imply that this was because of their religion.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I would love to see you extend this logic (for lack of a better term) to Native Americans.

I didn't take anyone's land. I have no interest in righting wrongs that happened centuries ago to people who are long dead.

If you feel that there is a moral imperative to fight for Israel, then pack up your Mosin and head over there. Leave the rest of us alone.

+1

Yeah, let's start the Isrealis got their reparations, now lets get everybody else theirs too!

 

[IndyDave1776]

I did not forget, because that's not fact. The "frigates" were not established to fight "Moslems." I'm assuming youre speaking of the whole Barbary Pirates episode. The US engaged in conflict with them due to them being "pirates," not Moslems. The US actively engaged pirates from a variety of backgrounds (Chinese, French, Caribbean Mexican) it is short-sighted to imply that this was because of their religion.

Study your history. It may not be politically correct but it is as it is.

 

[steveh_131]

If I were young and fit, I WOULD offer my help, then pack up and head there if accepted. I am not a coward.
I also think beyond myself - of others and my country.

Then send your own money. Make some sacrifices. Go volunteer. I don't really care what you do, just leave me alone.

Do you really think they would stop with Israel? NO! They want us ALL to become servants to their "God" and leadership. What then?

What then? Then we defend ourselves. That's why we have a military. To defend ourselves.

 

[Kutnupe14]

If I were young and fit, I WOULD offer my help, then pack up and head there if accepted. I am not a coward.
I also think beyond myself - of others and my country.

Do you really think they would stop with Israel? NO! They want us ALL to become servants to their "God" and leadership. What then?

Stay in your "safehouse" for all I care. It's nothing to me. You are one of the few. Good luck.

So, I'll ask you flatout, should United States foreign policy be based on religious notions?
If the Palestinians were a threat to your home, your family, I'd be the first to press the button that vaporizes their butts. You're an American, and after my blood family, all those that share my citizenship come next.
Your safety, I'll defend... someone else's, a 1000 miles away, I reserve the right the to say "no." And I most assuredly believe that my govt should not waste our resources in defending a nation that has no credible benefit to the US as a whole.

 

[IndyDave1776]

So, I'll ask you flatout, should United States foreign policy be based on religious notions?
If the Palestinians were a threat to your home, your family, I'd be the first to press the button that vaporizes their butts. You're an American, and after my blood family, all those that share my citizenship come next.
Your safety, I'll defend... someone else's, a 1000 miles away, I reserve the right the to say "no." And I most assuredly believe that my govt should not waste our resources in defending a nation that has no credible benefit to the US as a whole.

When, contrary to recent press reports, the religion calls for the eradication of those who do not conform to it, yes. Before you give us any of the standard boilerplate, please remember your history and that since the time Mohammed yet breathed the only time that group has been reasonably peaceful is when it lacked the means to be otherwise. Now, tell us, should United States foreign policy be based on the religious notions of people whose religion has been a cause and justification of hostilities and atrocities from its beginning abating only at times it has been turned back by force or could be assured of being turned back by force should hostilities be commenced?