First Crossdresser Working in the White House

[Birds Away]

How is that MY responsibility?!

It isn't. But, like every other problem which is left to fester, we will all have to deal with whatever the results will be.

 

[Dead Duck]

It isn't. But, like every other problem which is left to fester, we will all have to deal with whatever the results will be.

Then why did you blame PrintCraft?

 

[Birds Away]

Then why did you blame PrintCraft?

Wow, that took me a minute.

 

[g00n24]

What are your qualifications for making that assessment?

So are you under the impression a male, you know the sex with an X and Y chromosome, that thinks they are a female does not have serious mental issues?

 

[Stickfight]

I don't require any special qualifications to have an opinion.

Absolutely no doubt about that.

What do you base that opinion on?

 

[Birds Away]

Absolutely no doubt about that.

What do you base that opinion on?

Observation of the human condition over the last 55 plus years. If you watch it can be very instructive.

 

[Stickfight]

So are you under the impression a male, you know the sex with an X and Y chromosome, that thinks they are a female does not have serious mental issues?

I will admit that I don't know.

But I do know that I prefer clinical diagnoses and treatment plans (or not) be based on the best available knowledge we have about human behavior and its causes. There are people who are of the opinion that the desire to own firearms constitutes mental illness, but luckily that is nothing more than theiruneducated opinion worked backward from the desire to take guns out of the hands of individuals.

 

[Birds Away]

I will admit that I don't know.

But I do know that I prefer clinical diagnoses and treatment plans (or not) be based on the best available knowledge we have about human behavior and its causes. There are people who are of the opinion that the desire to own firearms constitutes mental illness, but luckily that is nothing more than theiruneducated opinion worked backward from the desire to take guns out of the hands of individuals.

Very true. The difference here is that I am not advocating any action against anyone. I am merely expressing my opinion.

 

[HoughMade]

I will admit that I don't know.

But I do know that I prefer clinical diagnoses and treatment plans (or not) be based on the best available knowledge we have about human behavior and its causes. There are people who are of the opinion that the desire to own firearms constitutes mental illness, but luckily that is nothing more than theiruneducated opinion worked backward from the desire to take guns out of the hands of individuals.

Do a DNA test. Do a blood test. For around 99.99997% of the population, that will be determinative. There's your diagnosis.

Anyone who is assigned gender based upon another criteria, regardless of the number of letters behind their name, is using a methodology based upon their own personal beliefs, or those of another, couched in pseudo-scientific language.

We look at a young lady who is deathly underweight, who sees herself as obese, and have no issue with the fact that she has a "body dysmorphic disorder", that is, her perception does not match objective reality and it leads to self harm. When a person has a perception of themselves which does not match objectively verifiable fact and then causes themselves harm (self mutilation, emotional, etc.) based upon that, it is a disorder in need of treatment. Now, assuming no harm to others, whether they get that treatment should be fully up to the individual. It does not help, however, if we ignore that there is problem.

Unfortunately, while there is no political will to re-define body dysmorphic disorder as not a disorder, there is such desire when it comes to anything vaguely sexual in nature.

At the ends of spectrum, people willingly mutilate themselves to try to achieve a similarity between their perception and reality, but far from solving problems, that creates it's own set of dire consequences.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120

We at Johns Hopkins University—which in the 1960s was the first American medical center to venture into "sex-reassignment surgery"—launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not. Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as "satisfied" by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery. And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a "satisfied" but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs.

It now appears that our long-ago decision was a wise one. A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. This disturbing result has as yet no explanation but probably reflects the growing sense of isolation reported by the aging transgendered after surgery. The high suicide rate certainly challenges the surgery prescription.

 

[rw02kr43]

So if you see a crossdresser in public and that person has no interaction with you whatsoever are they still pushing their lifestyle on you?

 

[Dead Duck]

So if you see a crossdresser in public and that person has no interaction with you whatsoever are they still pushing their lifestyle on you?

Yes - I can still see them.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

I'm sure he/she was the best applicant for the job. Just like I'm sure the St. Louis Rams thought Michael SAMs was the best player in the draft for that pick. . . . Yup, I'm sure of it!

 

[churchmouse]

So if you see a crossdresser in public and that person has no interaction with you whatsoever are they still pushing their lifestyle on you?

No......as I said, keep it. Pass me by on the street, even say hello. I am at peace.

 

[Stickfight]

Do a DNA test. Do a blood test. For around 99.99997% of the population, that will be determinative. There's your diagnosis.

I'm not a biologist but can agree that a DNA test will determine whether or not an individual has a Y chromosome, but neither than nor the blood test would determine whether they have a mental illness. If indeed they have a Y but claim to be a female I can suspect that something is wrong, but I'm not sure I can know they have a treatable mental illness.

People in the pseudo-sciences make things up all the time, and they regularly crank out ridiculous theories. Generally they keep an eye on the results and change when the results say they should, as your Johns Hopkins article evidences. But I still think it is a better system than letting just anyone decide what the truth is.

 

[indiucky]

Geeze. I'm certainly annoyed by the obvious propaganda stunt but I certainly have no desire to punch the guy in the face.

Me neither...Cyrus was just trying to get the gangs to quit fighting each other....He must have got so frustrated he became a chick and a Democrat...There I go repeating myself again....

 

[Redtbird]

Wow... The Dog Days of Summer must be really kicking in as the temperatures rise and the humidity increases. People are getting short-tempered, quick to anger, eager to assault someone verbally or physically.

In a recent thread about Transgender folk, I thought I had seen lots of posts with sheer hatred and anger. But I was wrong. This thread, with 96 posts as I type this, far exceeds what I read earlier.

People, people, people! Please get it together!. The person all this anger and hatred being directed at is a Human Being, just like everyone here on INGO. The fact they live their life differently than you should not be an issue at all. If you look around at your fellow members of society you will see many differences in them.

Do you hate someone because they have a better job than you? Do you hate this person because they wear a suit to work and you wear jeans and a tee shirt? Do you hate someone because they drive a certain car and you drive something different.

The majority of INGO members have NO IDEA what a Transgender person go through in their lives. Transgender folk already know lots and lots of people don't like them for the way they live. They already know a friend, or the friend of a friend, that has been physically assaulted (Take IT in the an alley and give them a beating!). They have already read in the news of a Transgender person being killed because of the way they wanted to live their life.

"So if you see a crossdresser in public and that person has no interaction with you whatsoever are they still pushing their lifestyle on you?"

"Yes - I can still see them."

Way back in time, in my parent's generation, there were similar thoughts about Black people, or African-Americans to be politically correct. Lots of them were beaten, killed, hung from a tree. And here we are, 50 to 75 years later, wanting to do the same thing to people just because they LOOK different, or ACT different, or want to LIVE a different life.

All I can do is shake my head and wonder...

I do have a question to pose to the INGO membership in general. Okay, may be two questions.

1. What will you do when one of your children comes to you and says, "Dad. Mom. I am a Transgender person."

2. What will the INGO membership do when a Transgender person becomes a Forum Member?

Okay, I'm going to go eat supper now. If the Ban Hammer is gonna fall on my happy butt, I want to have a full stomach.

Have a great evening!

Redtbird

 

[g00n24]

Wow... The Dog Days of Summer must be really kicking in as the temperatures rise and the humidity increases. People are getting short-tempered, quick to anger, eager to assault someone verbally or physically.

In a recent thread about Transgender folk, I thought I had seen lots of posts with sheer hatred and anger. But I was wrong. This thread, with 96 posts as I type this, far exceeds what I read earlier.

People, people, people! Please get it together!. The person all this anger and hatred being directed at is a Human Being, just like everyone here on INGO. The fact they live their life differently than you should not be an issue at all. If you look around at your fellow members of society you will see many differences in them.

Do you hate someone because they have a better job than you? Do you hate this person because they wear a suit to work and you wear jeans and a tee shirt? Do you hate someone because they drive a certain car and you drive something different.

The majority of INGO members have NO IDEA what a Transgender person go through in their lives. Transgender folk already know lots and lots of people don't like them for the way they live. They already know a friend, or the friend of a friend, that has been physically assaulted (Take IT in the an alley and give them a beating!). They have already read in the news of a Transgender person being killed because of the way they wanted to live their life.

"So if you see a crossdresser in public and that person has no interaction with you whatsoever are they still pushing their lifestyle on you?"

"Yes - I can still see them."

Way back in time, in my parent's generation, there were similar thoughts about Black people, or African-Americans to be politically correct. Lots of them were beaten, killed, hung from a tree. And here we are, 50 to 75 years later, wanting to do the same thing to people just because they LOOK different, or ACT different, or want to LIVE a different life.

All I can do is shake my head and wonder...

I do have a question to pose to the INGO membership in general. Okay, may be two questions.

1. What will you do when one of your children comes to you and says, "Dad. Mom. I am a Transgender person."

2. What will the INGO membership do when a Transgender person becomes a Forum Member?

Okay, I'm going to go eat supper now. If the Ban Hammer is gonna fall on my happy butt, I want to have a full stomach.

Have a great evening!

Redtbird

I agree with this completely. As much as I find these PEOPLE disagreeable, and screwed up, I know they are still human beings. They don't need to be beaten or bullied, they need serious psychiatric treatment. That does not mean we, as a society, should openly accept and celebrate their pathology. I think many people, myself included, are more, or just as disgusted, with the celebration of this lifestyle. Like someone else in this thread already pointed out...these folks are not going to get the help they need due to people being too cowardly and PC to be honest about their disorder, and that is a damn shame.

 

[Arthur Dent]

For something that people don't agree with, which doesn't affect them AT ALL, there sure is a lot of negativity. Are these people screwed up? No, they just are the way they are. You don't believe a person with Down syndrome chose to be that way, do you? "Can't you just NOT be retarded? Have you tried being normal?" If you truly believe it is a choice then try being transgender or gay for a week. If it's a choice you should find it just as comfortable as being straight. I don't know about the rest of you but I didn't choose to be straight, I just am. Some people are just gay or are transgender. They weren't thinking to themselves "wouldn't it be cool to act and dress this way so I can be ridiculed, possibly assaulted or murdered!" They are thinking "this is who I am." So that's what they are. The disorder is in the people with the phobia.

 

[churchmouse]

For something that people don't agree with, which doesn't affect them AT ALL, there sure is a lot of negativity. Are these people screwed up? No, they just are the way they are. You don't believe a person with Down syndrome chose to be that way, do you? "Can't you just NOT be retarded? Have you tried being normal?" If you truly believe it is a choice then try being transgender or gay for a week. If it's a choice you should find it just as comfortable as being straight. I don't know about the rest of you but I didn't choose to be straight, I just am. Some people are just gay or are transgender. They weren't thinking to themselves "wouldn't it be cool to act and dress this way so I can be ridiculed, possibly assaulted or murdered!" They are thinking "this is who I am." So that's what they are. The disorder is in the people with the phobia.

Not apples to apples comparison.

I see your point but yes, the are screwed up by current standards. What standards are you using. Compassion is a good thing but some of this stuff is way out in left field. JMHO of course.

I do not suffer from a phobia. I do not have a disorder. I am not challenged by my own sexuality as I know full well who I am.

I dressed up as a woman several times on festive occasions as in Halloween. Man I could not wait to get home and dump those heels.

 

[Leadeye]

Meh, still not pretty, this is pretty!