Federal agent shoots ankle charging rat terrier in Fishers.

[gloxrok]

one of these would also work instead of just kicking a dog, which is just cruel. I know it's a cat (in the game), but same could apply for dogs. Apologies to any animal lovers; this is simply meant to be funny.
The Original Kitten Cannon!

 

[billybob44]

That's what I'm Talking About..

They would be in jail, and the center of major media propaganda.

+1 to that^^^

AND

Their EDC confiscated, their home searched+ALL firearms seized, hours of interrogation, probably a night in jail, and who knows what else???Bill.

 

[theweakerbrother]

Shoot at a police dog and see what happens.

 

[public servant]

So, now the self-defense debate comes down to the breed of dog? His neighbor had an unsecured dog that charged an innocent bystander. Are you guys suggesting that he SHOULD face charges for shooting an aggressive dog, or simply that you would expect to face them if you're a civilian?

No silly, it comes down to the fact the guy is LE. If he weren't, there would be 6 threads filled with "I would have shot it also. Good job OP." posts.

For the record, I can't say whether this guy was justified in shooting this mutt or not. I wasn't there.

 

[flatlander]

Amazing how quick some here want to go to the gun. I guess they've been beaten up by too many 5 yr old girls. IT WAS A 20 POUND DOG!!! It wasn't a Rott, dangerous snake, racoon etc and there should have been NO mistaking it for those. This giant walking douchebag got a pass because he was who he was. Period. The incident should have never happened.

Bob

 

[DragonGunner]

They would be in jail, and the center of major media propaganda.

You must of missed post #87.......?

 

[hoosierdoc]

No silly, it comes down to the fact the guy is LE. If he weren't, there would be 6 threads filled with "I would have shot it also. Good job OP." posts.

For the record, I can't say whether this guy was justified in shooting this mutt or not. I wasn't there.

The post immediately after yours is a good example of what I was responding to. Many comments are stating it was just a terrier and you should kick it or simply lob it through the air with your foot. These are the people I'm asking about the breed-specific response when a dog is charging you. They were mocking the officer for shooting a terrier.

If this were a pit bull, everyone would be saying "good job LEO". It's a bad combination that it's LE and a terrier.

 

[flatlander]

The post immediately after yours is a good example of what I was responding to. Many comments are stating it was just a terrier and you should kick it or simply lob it through the air with your foot. These are the people I'm asking about the breed-specific response when a dog is charging you. They were mocking the officer for shooting a terrier.

If this were a pit bull, everyone would be saying "good job LEO". It's a bad combination that it's LE and a terrier.

You can "what if?" this to death. Speak to the facts, as we know them, of this incident which is what the thread was about. If you can't tell the difference btwn a Pit and a 20 lb terrier you got some problems. If a 10 yr old is walking towards me and mean muggin me I will probably smile. If a group of thuggish looking teens/ adults is coming towards me, with the same look, I will act differently. If....if...if....ad infinitum

Bob

 

[hoosierdoc]

I'm just asking where the grey area ends. Is it a terrier, a pug, a poddle, a collie, etc... Is your neighbors dog worth you going to the ER and possibly getting thousands of dollars in medical bills and suing your neighbor to get them paid?

I am not saying I would have shot the dog, I'm just saying to call this guy every name in the book for doing what he did is a bit much since we know next to no details.

 

[92ThoStro]

I'm all citi-fied these days, but when I had chickens your dog's life was forfeit if he was chasing them. Just on the property I'd use rock salt to teach them to stay away, but if they were actively threatening it was lead.

Seems to be who's property the dog is on matters quite a bit. I wouldn't expect anyone to get bit on their own property by someone else's dog. FWIW I've had a few civilians shoot dogs that were behaving aggressively and not one was charged with anything. Stupid civilian-whatever-color-line (blue and green are called, pick one that's left), I guess. Or simply their actions didn't rise to the level of criminal activity, we recognized that, and were done. In at least one instance the owner of the now dead dog was cited by animal control for letting the dog run loose.

This. We had a wolf hybrid attack our chickens once, we had to shoot the chicken. Next time the dog came back, he got got birdshot in the butt, and left a trail of blood back to our neighbors house. Neighbors didn't even care AFAIK

Question for all you people who are saying your life must be in danger to use lethal force, where are you getting this from?
I want to see the IC for that. ( for ANIMALs, not for humans )
AFAIK you can protect yourself from a DOG AT LARGE ( Illegal ) that is attacking you, on your property.
It doesn't matter what the size of the dog is. We had a rat terrier, and it put a family member in the hospital who tried to pick it up ( it was sleeping ). Puncture wounds are serious, animals have nasty mouths.
It could have had rabies, or god knows what else.

I think it is insanely hypocritical for so many people to be saying "you have to be in mortal danger, blah blah blah" but at the same time, in other threads, you say that if someone punches you, you would shoot them. The reason was because there is documented proof that people have died in one punch. I don't disagree with this either, if someone is punching you in the neck, head, or whatever, you could very well die.
So it's ridiculous to shoot an attack dog on your property, but it's not to shoot someone who punches you?

Back when I use to rollerblade with my dog at 10-12 at night, I found that it is very dangerous. Owners think that they can let their dogs out unleashed because nobody is up or around at that time of night. I had a dog almost eat* me, it grabbed my blade, but my dog ( pit mix ) is very dog aggressive, and scared the husky off. After that I carried a 14 inch hunting knife, but was never had to use it. I would have, without question, shot the dog Husky that was attacking me.

But the story said the dog was barking, not attacking if I read it right. I think he should have waited for it to attack him, before shooting it. Well, not attack, but charge I mean. I wouldn't let it bite me first either. But then again, I wouldn't wait for a grizzly bear to charge at me either. So.... I think it could be a good shoot

Medical bills is also a good point, my copay is like 200 bucks for an ER visit alone. What was his weapon, a 9mm? 2 shots, that's like 50 cents?

 

[flatlander]

For ME, the grey area ends where my or my families/ friends lives are in danger or of serious physical harm. I'm old school and use the "continum of force" theory. Just because I have a hammer doesn't mean everythings a nail.
BTW, I only used a couple of names out of the book that were suitable to this forum. I didn't even go to the bottom of the first page. LOL
No worries

Bob

Hell, I punched a racoon one time who was leaning against my screened in jungle hammock while camping. I probably SHOULD have shot that damn thing. Startled the hell out of me.

 

[87iroc]

I seriously don't think you'll hear much more about this. Had it been a civilian,charges would have already been filed.

Yah, I'm with you.

We have large dogs(lab and akita mix). the Akita would mess you up...and if he went after you, you should shoot it. The lab...he'd fix you a beverage if you rubbed his ear.

When I delivered Pizzas in HS I hated small dogs. Had one guy with a big Rott....dog was a baby.

 

[Bunnykid68]

My cocker spaniel weighed 22-24 pounds. I cannot imagine drawing and shooting a dog that size unless it was relentless in its attack on me after I kicked at it a few times. A 40 pound dog might be a whole different story.

Size does matter

 

[The Bubba Effect]

If it was on his property, it was his call.

I would apply the same logic to a regular joe shooting a dog on the shooter's propety (or firing a warning shot) and I hope the police would too.

 

[flatlander]

If it was on his property, it was his call.

I would apply the same logic to a regular joe shooting a dog on the shooter's propety (or firing a warning shot) and I hope the police would too.

Apartment common area. He didn't own it. Same as being on the sidewalk.

Bob

 

[Indy317]

Ask Liberty Sanders. And he didn't even shoot the dog, just the ground next to it to persuade the dog to stop it's attack.

Maybe the guy read how Liberty Sanders was treated and felt it would be better to actually shoot the do than to fire a warning shot?

 

[Liberty Sanders]

A fellow INGOer has e-mailed me and asked me to weigh in on this.

It's hard for me to come down on one side or the other of this. I wasn't there. Did this guy even realize the breed of dog before he dropped the hammer, or was he simply responding to something that came running at him out of the dark? I once came within a split second of blowing away a sea lion under such circumstances and I can relate.

I believe I was asked to contribute here because of my unfortunate experience with the Carmel "Police" Department.

That to me was less a case about the pros & cons of shooting a dog in self-defense as it was about the misfortune of living in a community with a corrupt and unprofessional police department where officers aren't trained, aren't disciplined, and where both the police administration and the city prosecutor's office encourage their officers to use perjury as a prosecution strategy.

I had many encounters in the ghetto with vicious dogs, not terriers, the Shepherd/Pit/Rottweiler class. I never shot one. I either growled back, gave them a swift kick or a rap in the snout with my stick. The shooting of dogs by our officers was EXTREMELY rare. We just always seemed to find a way to handle it without gunfire.

When a dog is mean it generally means that its owner needs to be shot. We weren't allowed to shoot the owners and I wasn't inclined to shoot the dog for doing something when it didn't know any better.

I'm not going to shoot any dog of any breed unless I feel I have no other option, thus my choice during my caper of firing a shot into the ground rather than into the dogs. It saved my butt and resulted in no blood spilled. I place that in the "win" column.

I can only offer the opinion here that had I been the one in this encounter and I KNEW the dog was terrier class I would most certainly have tried non-lethal measures. Then again I'd do the same thing if it was Mastiff class, but that's just me. Not knowing what this shooter knew I'll at least give him the benefit of the doubt pending further information.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Liberty, here are the Officers own words.

Chief Deputy William “Buzz” Brown told officers with the Fishers Police Department that he arrived home from work at 11:15 p.m. on Feb. 26, when “a small dog came out of the bushes and began to bark” at him.

​

 

[cobber]

Well it was at night.....heard it bark, saw the shadow coming out of the bushes and thought "Pitbull".....?

Did this guy even realize the breed of dog before he dropped the hammer, or was he simply responding to something that came running at him out of the dark?

Something about being sure of your target before you pull the trigger. Kind of like those folks who shoot at a whitetail and nail some lady hanging her laundry.

Plus this is one of those trained guys who the libs think should have guns, while we're too unskilled and trigger-happy to be trusted.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Liberty, here are the Officers own words.

Chief Deputy William “Buzz” Brown told officers with the Fishers Police Department that he arrived home from work at 11:15 p.m. on Feb. 26, when “a small dog came out of the bushes and began to bark” at him.

Hmmmmmm...."small dog" to me means I'm going to try a thing or two short of shooting it.