Ebola in TX

[Thor]

I really dislike disingenuous arguments like this one. Comparing personal choices that wreak health with random tranmission of a highly virulent disease is just dishonest.

I get the sentiment. The overall risk delta is probably astronomical, but I can't control how other people behave if/when they are contagious with something. And as it stands right now, the official line on proper precautions doesn't seem to be sufficient.

Yeah, somebody else's eating/smoking/drinking habits have zero chance of killing me as I travel through airports (unless it's the pilot), somebody infected with this virus on the other hand has a far greater chance of ending my life.

 

[Thor]

The Flu still scares me more

I hear there's a shot for that...

 

[Thor]

I'll roll the dice, I like my odds.

For now...I'm not locked in the house yet either...yet. We shall see, it wouldn't be the first disease that eliminated vast swaths of a population.

Well, okay, I AM locked in my house with loaded guns but I still unlock them to go out.

 

[cobber]

I'm more worried of dying in a car wreck, or self inflicted health issues from poor nutrition that ebola. (Saying this as I sip on a soda from Wendy's after having eaten a chicken sandwich from there...)

WHOA! The cartoonist forgot all those gun deaths!!

So Alcohol, Tobacco, and Food (ATF) are more dangerous than guns. Good to know.

 

[5.56'aholic]

Please, don't try to tell me what happens at your hospital (or other related workplace) is what happens all over. There is clearly a problem here when some hospitals can treat this without infecting any of their staff and this one in Texas can't...

Anecdotal evidence that not every hospital is training it's staff and providing the necessary PPE. Just recently on another survival related forum I frequent a healthcare worker reached out to ask questions on how to deal with this stuff and what suits to get. Despite working in the medical industry with DIRECT contact with patients, his employer has not done ANY level of training related to ebola and how they will treat/handle such a case and they have not been equipped with precautionary PPE in the event they need to don it. That seems quite contrary to your anecdotal evidence. Certainly you aren't ignorant enough to believe that every single hospital in this country has fully trained their staff and provided the necessary PPE and decon areas etc... so how can you question my above post based solely on what your employer has done?

So your assertion is that the hospital knowingly stuck an employee with improper training in a quarantined room with a patient that has one of the worst diseases known to man......I stand by my previous statements.

 

[CountryBoy19]

So your assertion is that the hospital knowingly stuck an employee with improper training in a quarantined room with a patient that has one of the worst diseases known to man......I stand by my previous statements.

I never said that, if you think I did, please point to the place I said it... If you are standing by your statement (conveniently quoted below) wherein you said that "anyone who work in the field knows how to remove this stuff" then you seem fairly ignorant of "the field". Keep on with your head in the sand but we're done discussing this. Carry on...

Please, anyone who works in the field knows how to remove this stuff. This isn't someone with good intentions trying to help, these are professionals who work with biohazards every day.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I hear there's a shot for that...

Must be pretty effective, only 35,000 people a year die from the flu, about the same amount that died before the shot was available

 

[Thor]

Fort Bragg troops train to deal with Ebola | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

 

[ArcadiaGP]

"Ebola is the GOP's fault" - That's today's push.


Yep. GOP caused ebola:

 

[dusty88]

The NIH director came out claiming that vaccine development stopped because of budget cuts. I give him kudos for being a "good politician" which is what appointees are probably supposed to be.

Vaccine development has actually been quite good for this virus. It did stop for monetary reasons, but more because it wasn't deemed a valuable choice. At the time, there were no big outbreaks and previous outbreaks had been contained locally. There was no rationale for moving to the step of using human volunteers. Now, it will make sense to do what is being done: go ahead and try the vaccine on the healthcare workers and then the people in the surrounding areas.

Ultimately, we may need to vaccinate wildlife if it continues to spread. (dropping oral bait vaccines, not at all unrealistic as this virus shares some characteristics of rabies)

 

[5.56'aholic]

I never said that, if you think I did, please point to the place I said it... If you are standing by your statement (conveniently quoted below) wherein you said that "anyone who work in the field knows how to remove this stuff" then you seem fairly ignorant of "the field". Keep on with your head in the sand but we're done discussing this. Carry on...

Check the news, was wearing recommended PPE, removed properly but still contracted it. Carry on....

 

[5.56'aholic]

Want me to find you a crow?

 

[Bunnykid68]

Check the news, was wearing recommended PPE, removed properly but still contracted it. Carry on....

Any reason we should believe that story over any other story? How do we know which one is the truth and which one is the lie?

 

[5.56'aholic]

the big take away from all this is we are ill prepared. Even the recommended minimal PPE is not enough. Get ready for more. Glad the CDC has a handle on this.

 

[ghuns]

Check the news, was wearing recommended PPE, removed properly but still contracted it. Carry on....

As I have asked others who continue to pound this point; is your assertion then that this strain of Ebola is able to permeate the recommended PPE? If the nurse wore it correctly and removed it correctly how did she get it, and why don't more have it?

The simplest explanation is human error.

 

[T.Lex]

The simplest explanation is human error.

I would only qualify that by saying we don't know how she got it. It is not either/or the ppe was penetrated or she made a mistake. There may have been some other modality of transfer.

Someone with higher tolerance to the virus may have been an intermediary. Or any of a thousand other possibilities.

To me, the point is, we just do not know, other than some parameters. Proximity greater than 1 meter from infected people/things, seems to work best.

 

[pudly]

As I have asked others who continue to pound this point; is your assertion then that this strain of Ebola is able to permeate the recommended PPE? If the nurse wore it correctly and removed it correctly how did she get it, and why don't more have it?

The simplest explanation is human error.

The simplest explanation is poor procedures that are difficult to do 100% correctly and/or poor training. 3/4s of nurses feel that they haven't had sufficient training on how to deal with something like Ebola. You are correct that proper PPE should provide one layer of good protection. Was it sprayed with bleach or other disinfectant before removed? Is there a second person to help the first remove their gear properly and observe if there are any problems, like tears or punctures? If there is not sufficient redundancy and safety margins then you will guarantee that a certain percentage of people will fail. If you design too little safety into the system, it isn't the fault of the nurse, it is a fault of the system and those who expect all nurses to execute perfectly every time.

Someone can carry with a gun with a safety, 2lb trigger and no holster and little/no firearms training. That level of hardware protection (safety) isn't a guarantee that nothing bad will happen. We pay attention to trigger weight, holsters, safeties and training in order to insure that sufficient safety margins are designed into the system. Even then, humans are involved and something can go wrong eventually.

Edit:
There are even questions about whether the PPE is in fact properly protective. The Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRaP) is recommending that healthcare workers use full respirators, rather than facemasks.

We believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients, which means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Ooh, I have a case of N95 masks, shields, and some full gas masks should it become an issue, and a whole stack of filters for them. Even some tyvek hazmat bunnysuits, nitrile gloves, booties, we could just about MOP up. Ain' no ebola gettin in here.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Ooh, I have a case of N95 masks, shields, and some full gas masks should it become an issue, and a whole stack of filters for them. Even some tyvek hazmat bunnysuits, nitrile gloves, booties, we could just about MOP up. Ain' no ebola gettin in here.

Or, now hear me out, and this is just crazy enough to work, we cancel the wine tasting tour of Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea.

 

[5.56'aholic]

As I have asked others who continue to pound this point; is your assertion then that this strain of Ebola is able to permeate the recommended PPE? If the nurse wore it correctly and removed it correctly how did she get it, and why don't more have it?

The simplest explanation is human error.

the nurse did everything according to advised protocol. The problem is the CDC. We are ill prepared even when we do things by the book. This is why they changed the protocol. The virus is indeed air born if it can be transmitted via aerosolized particles, making it more virulent than the CDC wants to admit. Just being in the same room with someone is enough to transmit the disease. You don't have to touch them at all in the later stages. It's the point many of us have tried to make since day one. The CDC has misled us every step of the way.