Ebola in TX

[88GT]

I believe there were some INGOers here not long ago telling us we had nothing to worry about. Their presence and reassurance is requested.

I've been wondering the same thing.

The anecdotal evidence of transmission from infected to family members living in very close proximity for a period of time is beginning to look like hard evidence. And let's not forget that Duncan's only known exposure to ebola was a single time when he carried a pregnant woman who died from it. IF that was sufficient for him to contract it.....

 

[88GT]

Probably occurred while removing the ppe this is not a simple task. We need to be aware and educated the best we can to stop this in its tracks. Stopping it in Africa is critical regardless of isolation because it is impossible to be completely isolated today. We need to have open discussions with all parties and educate everyone. Fear of the unknown is worst case scenario here so is being so certain the government is always out to get you. This is part of why it continues to spread in Africa. Education and facts matter.

It's not so much that we think the government is actively out to get us. It's rather that they keep telling us there's nothing to worry about when all the evidence points to the contrary. But people will heed the advice of the almighty .gov and all that precious 'education' they are receiving will be for naught.

 

[DanSwanky]

... Education and facts matter.[/QUOTE]

To who? The government? IMO Thinking the gov is always out to get people seems like a safer mind set than thinking that they carefully consider the logic facts when making policy.

 

[rex soldier]

Its happening

 

[CountryBoy19]

Haven't read amy thing as to how/when the worker caught it. I'd speculate it would have been the first visit when they weren't expecting his condition to be ebola, but only my limited information opinion

I heard on the radio a short while ago that it was a healthcare worker that only had interaction with him after he was hospitalized and was being treated for ebola. So far the CDC has not been able to determine any breeches in procedure that could have led to the infection of this individual...

If I had to put anything on it I'm going to say it was a stupid mistake that the person just absent mindedly didn't even think about and that is why there has been no identified breech in procedure. Very likely they took their PPE off and then just grabbed it to throw it away or something without any precautions for not touching it with bare skin...


Keep in mind that we've now treated multiple patients at real hospitals in this country without any transmission. Are we really surprised that this extremely incompetent hospital in TX that sent a contagious ebola patient home has somehow slipped up and allowed a patient/attendant transmission to occur? I'm not surprised. I will admit, I was one that initially thought out medical system could handle this. I guess one things I didn't account for is the absolute stupidity of people, even people that are in the medical industry and are supposed to be professionals... If I worked at that hospital I would be horribly ashamed to even be associated with the gross negligence involved....

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Don't worry, the media will get to the bottom of this . . . by running away.

This Huffpo journo forgot he has ONE JOB: Guys, don?t ask questions about new Ebola case (What journalism!) | Twitchy

 

[5.56'aholic]

I heard on the radio a short while ago that it was a healthcare worker that only had interaction with him after he was hospitalized and was being treated for ebola. So far the CDC has not been able to determine any breeches in procedure that could have led to the infection of this individual...

If I had to put anything on it I'm going to say it was a stupid mistake that the person just absent mindedly didn't even think about and that is why there has been no identified breech in procedure. Very likely they took their PPE off and then just grabbed it to throw it away or something without any precautions for not touching it with bare skin...

Please, anyone who works in the field knows how to remove this stuff. This isn't someone with good intentions trying to help, these are professionals who work with biohazards every day. I just had to take my annual refresher course on PPE and biohazard waste, and I am not a healthcare provider even. I am required to take it simply because I enter areas where I may come into contact with possible biohazards. Unless this person had no clue what they were doing, odds are the contamination came from the areas considered "safe" from the disease immediately surrounding the quarantine area. I think we may find that this is far more virulent then we are being led to believe.

 

[dusty88]

Please, anyone who works in the field knows how to remove this stuff. This isn't someone with good intentions trying to help, these are professionals who work with biohazards every day. I just had to take my annual refresher course on PPE and biohazard waste, and I am not a healthcare provider even. I am required to take it simply because I enter areas where I may come into contact with possible biohazards. Unless this person had no clue what they were doing, odds are the contamination came from the areas considered "safe" from the disease immediately surrounding the quarantine area. I think we may find that this is far more virulent then we are being led to believe.

It's one thing to train protocol; it's another to be working on someone, trying to accomplish a task and maintain protocol at the same time.

Protocol is broken on a regular basis during sterile surgeries. Most of the time, somebody notices and different equipment can be used. Also most of the time, the patient gets lucky.

The CDC is speculating but making headlines that "protocol was broken" when they really don't know what happened.

The fact is that educated well-equipped healthcare workers are becoming infected. I do agree with you that the virus is probably becoming more virulent, and the most dogmatic academic types don't want to admit that.

They are in a tough spot. The moment they even say it is "possible" that transmission is easier than they thought, or if they publicly discuss fomite transmission (which is clearly possible if you know anything about the virus), the scariest bit is rephrased and publicized and we have big panic problems.

I agree with dwh79 that we need to work to contain this in Africa. I disagree with over 90% of our federal government spending, but not this one. Placing well trained people with the right equipment in a location where they can determine whether or not they can contain the disease (if it's not too late) would be the best national "defense" we've initiated in decades.

ETA: Here's why it's difficult to tell the truth. CDC admits it's "possible but unlikely" for Ebola to become airborne. Headline says "CDC Admits Ebola Could be Airborne" which IMO suggests they are saying maybe it already is, or the possibility is likely.

Conversely, they've been dogmatic about using phrases like "direct contact" and not admitting the fomite possibility (which is more realistic). So I suppose you could argue that they create more panic by making themselves appear untrustworthy. IDK.

 

[dusty88]

Here's another interesting and concerning thought in regards to hygiene.

The first patient in Dallas supposedly created truckloads of hazardous waste, which the contractor wouldn't pick up. It all had to be autoclaved first. If we have many patients and really want to maintain "first world sanitation" we are going to have to initiate some creative disposal methods.

And my idea of containment was be misstated. If news reports are correct (and who knows), their are so many patients in Sierra Leone, they've told them to stay home.

Even in the worst case scenario, though, there is good news. I've seen some very good studies of a vaccine trial in non-human primates. It provided great immunity. I believe it didn't go any further because there was really on call for the vaccine at the time (previous Ebola outbreaks have burned out in specific areas). It would take months or a year to produce a large number of vaccines, but healthcare workers could be vaccinated first.

 

[T.Lex]

Honest question - is it possible that the sicker the infected patient is, the more virulent the virus becomes? I mean, it seems like if someone is symptomatic, but not bad, it takes more contact for it to transfer. But, if the person is REALLY sick, the transfer can be accomplished with very little contact - or even no direct contact.

Does that make sense from a virology standpoint?

 

[CountryBoy19]

Please, anyone who works in the field knows how to remove this stuff. This isn't someone with good intentions trying to help, these are professionals who work with biohazards every day. I just had to take my annual refresher course on PPE and biohazard waste, and I am not a healthcare provider even. I am required to take it simply because I enter areas where I may come into contact with possible biohazards. Unless this person had no clue what they were doing, odds are the contamination came from the areas considered "safe" from the disease immediately surrounding the quarantine area. I think we may find that this is far more virulent then we are being led to believe.

Please, don't try to tell me what happens at your hospital (or other related workplace) is what happens all over. There is clearly a problem here when some hospitals can treat this without infecting any of their staff and this one in Texas can't...

Anecdotal evidence that not every hospital is training it's staff and providing the necessary PPE. Just recently on another survival related forum I frequent a healthcare worker reached out to ask questions on how to deal with this stuff and what suits to get. Despite working in the medical industry with DIRECT contact with patients, his employer has not done ANY level of training related to ebola and how they will treat/handle such a case and they have not been equipped with precautionary PPE in the event they need to don it. That seems quite contrary to your anecdotal evidence. Certainly you aren't ignorant enough to believe that every single hospital in this country has fully trained their staff and provided the necessary PPE and decon areas etc... so how can you question my above post based solely on what your employer has done?

 

[Lebowski]

I'm more worried of dying in a car wreck, or self inflicted health issues from poor nutrition that ebola. (Saying this as I sip on a soda from Wendy's after having eaten a chicken sandwich from there...)

 

[hd96heritage]

haven't heard any updates on the possible infected persons from Utah and Hawaii. anyone know anything? or anything on the dallas man's family he was staying with??

 

[88GT]

I'm more worried of dying in a car wreck, or self inflicted health issues from poor nutrition that ebola. (Saying this as I sip on a soda from Wendy's after having eaten a chicken sandwich from there...)

I really dislike disingenuous arguments like this one. Comparing personal choices that wreak health with random tranmission of a highly virulent disease is just dishonest.

I get the sentiment. The overall risk delta is probably astronomical, but I can't control how other people behave if/when they are contagious with something. And as it stands right now, the official line on proper precautions doesn't seem to be sufficient.

 

[BogWalker]

Complacency is our biggest enemy in the fight against this disease.

 

[lovemachine]

I'm more worried of dying in a car wreck, or self inflicted health issues from poor nutrition that ebola. (Saying this as I sip on a soda from Wendy's after having eaten a chicken sandwich from there...)

Bleeding out of my ass scares me.

 

[Lebowski]

Okay, I'll admit the comic was a little much. It's concerning that ebola is here in the US but I'm not losing sleep over it. 316,000,000 people in the United States and how many confirmed cases of ebola here? I'll roll the dice, I like my odds.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Bleeding out of my ass scares me.

FTFY: "Bleeding out all my holes scares me"

 

[mbills2223]

I suspect that the new case happened for no other reason than that they aren't as careful with basic disease transmission precautions as you might think.

Might be something as simple as a nurse who took off her protective suit only to touch it with bare hands when throwing it in a bag.

This! Most healthcare professionals have had virtually zero education in personal protective equipment.

 

[Bunnykid68]

The Flu still scares me more