drunk officer kills motorcyclist

[Tactical Dave]

Well, Dave was asked if there was ANY truth to ANY of this. He swore that he did not have anything to drink. He was told to "man up" if he was drinking and face it like a man. If I am wrong and he snowed us...let him burn. IF there was a single person on the scene that thought he was intox...let them burn. There was a life taken as a result...no time for favorites. Hell, I'm happy the FBI/DOJ are looking things over, let them shake it up a bit. I know my job is secure. I'm tired of officers stepping on their wieners. It is really EASY to stay out of trouble on/off duty. Some people work at messing up. It starts at hiring. We had a recruit in this class that just graduated that was hired with a suspended license and like 20pts. He had to catch a ride to/from the academy. He was told that it was ok as long as he got it back prior to EVOC...really??????? I am tired to getting mean mugged by every biker I come across...I haven't done anything wrong! It is time to become invisible I am afraid. I walk into a restaurant in uniform and I get the stare of death from everyone...somehow I still love my job. Being an LEO must be be a gene cause that is the only thing I can think of that allows me to put this uniform on everyday in the face of open hostility. Just like when people say "you don't like it...quit." You cannot "quit" what you are.

Well said post. If he was sober and had nothing to drink then good for him.

Sorry you are getting treated the way you are..... it comes with the job really, you wear the same uniform and drive the same car.... people are associating all that is not looking good over the last few days and weeks with anyone in an IMPD uniform.

I have noticed that at least the IMPD officers that live around me seem to not be coming outside much... but then I have only been back home for a few days.

If you do stick to the law and don't get involved in things of this nature (doing things that can end up looking really bad) then thanks.... seriously.... that goes for anyone else.

 

[j706]

Well, Dave was asked if there was ANY truth to ANY of this. He swore that he did not have anything to drink. He was told to "man up" if he was drinking and face it like a man. If I am wrong and he snowed us...let him burn. IF there was a single person on the scene that thought he was intox...let them burn. There was a life taken as a result...no time for favorites. Hell, I'm happy the FBI/DOJ are looking things over, let them shake it up a bit. I know my job is secure. I'm tired of officers stepping on their wieners. It is really EASY to stay out of trouble on/off duty. Some people work at messing up. It starts at hiring. We had a recruit in this class that just graduated that was hired with a suspended license and like 20pts. He had to catch a ride to/from the academy. He was told that it was ok as long as he got it back prior to EVOC...really??????? I am tired to getting mean mugged by every biker I come across...I haven't done anything wrong! It is time to become invisible I am afraid. I walk into a restaurant in uniform and I get the stare of death from everyone...somehow I still love my job. Being an LEO must be be a gene cause that is the only thing I can think of that allows me to put this uniform on everyday in the face of open hostility. Just like when people say "you don't like it...quit." You cannot "quit" what you are.

I feel basicly the same way. We had a officer that was busted for OWI off duty but in a marked patrol car. He resigned as he should have. It is kind of like getting punched in the gut and makes me want to stay hid. But we will always have screw ups. However the percentage is very small.

As far as the OP I do not think this guy was intoxicated. You can't be .19 BAC and hide it. Heck you can tell a person that is .19 from a distance. I am not buying into this cover up theory one bit. As far as the blood draw requirements, I have done hundreds of OWI arrests and a whole lot of blood draws. I have never heard of the new requirements for who can conduct a BD. I have also done blood draws for drivers that were involved in fatal crashes. Without PC of impairment I have never been successful in getting a BD warrant even for a fatal. As we all know the mere fact of being a driver of a vehicle involved in a serious or fatal crash,even if at fault, that ain't gonna cut it for a warrant. I still say that if the officer was in fact drunk I really doubt he would have submitted to the BD. I sure would not have.

One last thing-everyone is saying the officer was drunk. Recall there is ZERO proof that he was. People need to stop saying he was drunk. Innocent until proven guilty.

IMO this officer is an highly motivated, aggressive go getter (The kind we need more of). He heard about a warrant service fixing to go down and he responded like any good motivated officer would. Sure he might have violated SOP's by running hot but who can say they are not guilty of NOT following SOP's to the tee? I believe he came up on a intersection running hot and being used to having a working ABS system was involved in a fatal crash mainly because his brake system locked up. Driving a car for hours on hours with a working ABS and then going to a ABS being INOP makes the car you know so well a whole different animal.

If he could avoid a felony conviction,I would hire him in a heartbeat. Flame away but that is my belief on the subject,popular or not. Peace all.

 

[Denny347]

What I/we have to really work hard on, is not losing focus on the job. If we let this stuff distract us from our daily duties we could very well get ourselves hurt/killed. These distractions are bad for the public and can be deadly for us. The mayor, pub safety director, prosecutor's office, us...all look like clowns.....and I HATE clowns . I understand why people look at us the saem, it comes with the job. It doesn't make it any less frustrating but I DO understand. I was once a "non-leo" and I'm sure I'd share the opinions of many here. But now I have a different perspective (not better, just different) and sometimes I have to remember that i was not always an LEO and that we all can look at the same situation and come out with VERY different opinions.

 

[Tactical Dave]

I feel basicly the same way. We had a officer that was busted for OWI off duty but in a marked patrol car. He resigned as he should have. It is kind of like getting punched in the gut and makes me want to stay hid. But we will always have screw ups. However the percentage is very small.

As far as the OP I do not think this guy was intoxicated. You can't be .19 BAC and hide it. Heck you can tell a person that is .19 from a distance. I am not buying into this cover up theory one bit. As far as the blood draw requirements, I have done hundreds of OWI arrests and a whole lot of blood draws. I have never heard of the new requirements for who can conduct a BD. I have also done blood draws for drivers that were involved in fatal crashes. Without PC of impairment I have never been successful in getting a BD warrant even for a fatal. As we all know the mere fact of being a driver of a vehicle involved in a serious or fatal crash,even if at fault, that ain't gonna cut it for a warrant. I still say that if the officer was in fact drunk I really doubt he would have submitted to the BD. I sure would not have.

One last thing-everyone is saying the officer was drunk. Recall there is ZERO proof that he was. People need to stop saying he was drunk. Innocent until proven guilty.

IMO this officer is an highly motivated, aggressive go getter (The kind we need more of). He heard about a warrant service fixing to go down and he responded like any good motivated officer would. Sure he might have violated SOP's by running hot but who can say they are not guilty of NOT following SOP's to the tee? I believe he came up on a intersection running hot and being used to having a working ABS system was involved in a fatal crash mainly because his brake system locked up. Driving a car for hours on hours with a working ABS and then going to a ABS being INOP makes the car you know so well a whole different animal.

If he could avoid a felony conviction,I would hire him in a heartbeat. Flame away but that is my belief on the subject,popular or not. Peace all.

It has been said by another officer on here that it is IMPD policy for officers involved in accidents to be drug alcohol tested..... he was deemed ok and it was not done for a while untill the FACT said to do it..... it does not really matter if you or any other officer does not know the rules on blood draws.... the FACT should have or at least one would think they should have..... that's really the main point people are trying to make.


Maybe you and the other officers think that policy is ok to be ignoored from time to time????? I mean that is kinda what some people are getting at... It's like people are saying that so far the only screw up was him going hot.... Not trying to be a jerk, just saying....

 

[Indy317]

Some people work at messing up. It starts at hiring. We had a recruit in this class that just graduated that was hired with a suspended license and like 20pts. He had to catch a ride to/from the academy. He was told that it was ok as long as he got it back prior to EVOC...really???????

This is sad. All those good folks who got the rejection letter, only because someone was hired based on who they know, who they are related too, their skin color, their ethnic background, their religion, and/or their sex organ. Good 'ol boy and diversity at any cost hiring will always cause issues down the road. Not sure if that was the case here, but it has happened before at the IMPD/IPD academy.

I am tired to getting mean mugged by every biker I come across...I haven't done anything wrong! It is time to become invisible I am afraid. I walk into a restaurant in uniform and I get the stare of death from everyone...somehow I still love my job.

Ball State officers when through the same thing when the one officer shot and killed the likely drunk student years back. The kids would protest and the cop(s) would drive by and the group would start yelling stuff like "DON'T SHOOT!" holding their hands up and such. In times like this, you will see some officers disappear into the shadows for a while. At least the folks don't seem to be violent. I saw a few officers in uniform interacting with the bikers down at last nights protest.

One last thing-everyone is saying the officer was drunk. Recall there is ZERO proof that he was. People need to stop saying he was drunk. Innocent until proven guilty.

I don't know if he was drunk or not, I really do hope that there is video of someone in uniform at CVS buying booze. If it is him, then there is a good chance he is lying about drinking. If it is someone else, maybe it will help people wonder "Maybe he wasn't drunk?" Folks here want to believe in a police/prosecutor only conspiracy. Maybe the crime lab tech botched the test, or tested someone else and accidentally reported it as Bisards? Why can't that happen? Such an action by a tech would likely cost the person their job, so do you think that maybe a person who made a mistake would be so forthcoming?

Even if he wasn't drunk, one person is dead and others injured. I have always questioned the escorts that are ran during the Indy 500 and Brickyard. Here is the issue there:

IC 9-19-14-3 Audibility requirements for sirens, whistles, and bells; use of siren
Sec. 3. An authorized emergency vehicle may be equipped with a siren, whistle, or bell capable of emitting sound audible under normal conditions from a distance of not less than five hundred (500) feet and of a type approved by the state police department. The siren may not be used except when the vehicle is operated as follows:
(1) In response to an emergency call.
(2) In the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violation of the law. In this case, the driver of the vehicle shall sound the vehicle's siren when reasonably necessary to warn pedestrians and other drivers of the vehicle's approach.

There are limits on when an emergency vehicle can use a siren, but these limits are totally thrown into the wind during the escorts for the Indy 500 and other major events. No one says anything though, as it has been done for decades. No one will say anything till one of those officers runs over some kid, and only then will it be an issue.

With the Bisard case, the issue of mandatory field sobriety testing, by an outside agency, will likely become something required for fatal or serious bodily injury crashes when officers are involved, regardless of fault. Obviously the policy that says officers can run lights and sirens to assist with a warrant service will also be questioned. Why the rush? Is there anything about that call, or others, that meets the requirements of 9-19-14-3 to justify the use of the siren?

 

[E5RANGER375]

Well, Dave was asked if there was ANY truth to ANY of this. He swore that he did not have anything to drink. He was told to "man up" if he was drinking and face it like a man. If I am wrong and he snowed us...let him burn. IF there was a single person on the scene that thought he was intox...let them burn. There was a life taken as a result...no time for favorites. Hell, I'm happy the FBI/DOJ are looking things over, let them shake it up a bit. I know my job is secure. I'm tired of officers stepping on their wieners. It is really EASY to stay out of trouble on/off duty. Some people work at messing up. It starts at hiring. We had a recruit in this class that just graduated that was hired with a suspended license and like 20pts. He had to catch a ride to/from the academy. He was told that it was ok as long as he got it back prior to EVOC...really??????? I am tired to getting mean mugged by every biker I come across...I haven't done anything wrong! It is time to become invisible I am afraid. I walk into a restaurant in uniform and I get the stare of death from everyone...somehow I still love my job. Being an LEO must be be a gene cause that is the only thing I can think of that allows me to put this uniform on everyday in the face of open hostility. Just like when people say "you don't like it...quit." You cannot "quit" what you are.

sounds like your one of the good ones Denny, and no its not realy right that your getting the brunt of the "alleged" bad cops actions. People should have been this angry for along time now though. I dont know why it takes a person getting ran over to get people fired up. there have been many more instances where officers PLANNED to do wrong and has been proven. people should have been this outraged many times over before.
Its sad that the bad ruin it for the good. but eventualy those on the fence will pick a side because they are afraid like you, and they wont cover for the bad anymore and then finaly we can all move foreward. But as for now im sick and tired of the LEO abuses. im also AFRAID that Im gonna run across a bad cop and hes gonna shoot me or one of my family illegaly and get away with it, or smash my face in the ground and break my teeth off because all i will give him is my LTCH and he's in a bad mood that day, etc. So I'm happy if the cops are afraid to go out right now!! (not you Denny) Fear is the only thing that will change the way things are. The government should be afraid of consequences from the people for bad actions. If I know I can trust an LEO then I will be his best friend. Their will be no limit to what I would do for them (or any person I trust and consider a friend). But right now even the good cops have to understand that the uniform they wear is the same one that the bad cops are currently wearing too and we dont know which one we are gonna come across on any given day because these stories of abuse are becoming common place, not rare anymore. When we start seeing heads roll due to internal cleaning house, then we citizens will start standing behind you. until then though we wont trust anything about the police department as a whole.

 

[E5RANGER375]

At least the folks don't seem to be violent. I saw a few officers in uniform interacting with the bikers down at last nights protest.


I have always questioned the escorts that are ran during the Indy 500 and Brickyard. Here is the issue there:

IC 9-19-14-3 Audibility requirements for sirens, whistles, and bells; use of siren
Sec. 3. An authorized emergency vehicle may be equipped with a siren, whistle, or bell capable of emitting sound audible under normal conditions from a distance of not less than five hundred (500) feet and of a type approved by the state police department. The siren may not be used except when the vehicle is operated as follows:
(1) In response to an emergency call.
(2) In the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violation of the law. In this case, the driver of the vehicle shall sound the vehicle's siren when reasonably necessary to warn pedestrians and other drivers of the vehicle's approach.

There are limits on when an emergency vehicle can use a siren, but these limits are totally thrown into the wind during the escorts for the Indy 500 and other major events. No one says anything though, as it has been done for decades. No one will say anything till one of those officers runs over some kid, and only then will it be an issue.

Im also glad that people arent getting violent with the police. now if cops were holding guns to protesters heads then it would be a different story and the city would probly be burning right now. I personaly dont wanna see good cops oppressed or mistreated (even by other cops) and especialy not physically harmed. what we say here on INGO is raw emmotions and feelings and people I hope are honest here. Speaking as one: all the good law abiding citizens want is for the police to treat the other police EXACTLY like we would be treated and NO FAVORITISM!!! It does go on everyday, so how do we stop it? answer that question and fix it and I will vote for you as the next mayor.

i have always hated seeing the escorts to the track. its actualy enfuriating. speedway cops even come all the way down here and escort. they need to knock off this crap. but once again, money talks and the law walks. im sure they are making lots of extra money to drive like maniacs! and they DO drive like maniacs while doing them escorts.

 

[Tactical Dave]

Most drive like maniacs just going to wally world off duty.......

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

They drive like maniacs just going to wally world off duty.......

Don't lump every officer into the "they." Many officers (including myself) park their cars when off-duty and use their personally owned vehicles for transportation. If I'm not getting paid to drive it, I really don't want to deal with all the b.s. that comes with driving it.

 

[Tactical Dave]

Don't lump every officer into the "they." Many officers (including myself) park their cars when off-duty and use their personally owned vehicles for transportation. If I'm not getting paid to drive it, I really don't want to deal with all the b.s. that comes with driving it.

Your right and I fixed it...

In your PM I thought you were talking about the post on the guy in the Bee thread, my bad.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

[STRIKE]Most[/STRIKE] Some drive like maniacs just going to wally world off duty.......

I fixed it too.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Don't get me wrong, I don't trust that man in the slightest but I don't know that he is motivated to help IMPD.

When I say Brizzi, I mean his office. His Chief Deputy, the flippin' FACT,
his deputies, his paralegals, his secretaries.

So, when I say get Brizzi's phones I mean the phone records for the office and everyone's office and private cell phones and then march them in front of the grand jury.

IMPD did not make the decision to take him to the doc in the box alone.

 

[Tactical Dave]

When I say Brizzi, I mean his office. His Chief Deputy, the flippin' FACT,
his deputies, his paralegals, his secretaries.

So, when I say get Brizzi's phones I mean the phone records for the office and everyone's office and private cell phones and then march them in front of the grand jury.

IMPD did not make the decision to take him to the doc in the box alone.

I have seen Brizzi many times at the place I used to work.... I honestly don't think he is that stupid........ With say Tim Durham I could see him giving some not so ethical advise in thanks for the campaign money but not something like this.........

I fixed it too.

I think the word most is fair haha.

 

[irishfan]

Ball State officers when through the same thing when the one officer shot and killed the likely drunk student years back. The kids would protest and the cop(s) would drive by and the group would start yelling stuff like "DON'T SHOOT!" holding their hands up and such. In times like this, you will see some officers disappear into the shadows for a while. At least the folks don't seem to be violent. I saw a few officers in uniform interacting with the bikers down at last nights protest.

I started at Ball State a couple years after the shooting happened. At the time I had friends up there and when I visited it was kind of crazy with the tension between police and students. However, when I attended Ball State it was still a them/me type mentality. If the police showed up at a party you would hear people yell "I'm just drinking don't shoot me!" and other things to get at the cops. Unfortunately, when I left Ball State it was still the same mentality and the BSU police have for the most part been good to students but every once in a while it gets stirred up again.

 

[MinuteMan47]

Most drive like maniacs just going to wally world off duty.......

I fixed it too.

Well, to add to this...

Thursday I was at McDonalds...I ordered the BACON and Cheddar Third Pounder .....it wasn't ready right away so they had me pull up and wait. I pulled up as far as I could and tried to get out of the way, it was BUSY!....Anyways, there was a Hamilton County Deputy right behind me in line. He got his food right away and comes up right on my ass...I just sat there (of course waiting on my food) and he had the nerve to flip his lights and siren at ME!!!! He then sped around and gave me a dirty look, I was so tempted to give him the finger, but he had his wife and daughter in the car...

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Well, to add to this...

Thursday I was at McDonalds...I ordered the BACON and Cheddar Third Pounder .....it wasn't ready right away so they had me pull up and wait. I pulled up as far as I could and tried to get out of the way, it was BUSY!....Anyways, there was a Hamilton County Deputy right behind me in line. He got his food right away and comes up right on my ass...I just sat there (of course waiting on my food) and he had the nerve to flip his lights and siren at ME!!!! He then sped around and gave me a dirty look, I was so tempted to give him the finger, but he had his wife and daughter in the car...

The nerve of the McDonalds people, making you wait.

 

[Tactical Dave]

Well, to add to this...

Thursday I was at McDonalds...I ordered the BACON and Cheddar Third Pounder .....it wasn't ready right away so they had me pull up and wait. I pulled up as far as I could and tried to get out of the way, it was BUSY!....Anyways, there was a Hamilton County Deputy right behind me in line. He got his food right away and comes up right on my ass...I just sat there (of course waiting on my food) and he had the nerve to flip his lights and siren at ME!!!! He then sped around and gave me a dirty look, I was so tempted to give him the finger, but he had his wife and daughter in the car...

Then why not Hamilton County Sheriff (sp?) IA and complain about it? With the lights and siren then I am SURE it was on video and the video I am sure whould show that you were just waiting for your food (unless you wer blocking an exit or something).

I would have made a few calls in the past if I could have got a car number.......



-1 for Mcdonalds.....

 

[hornadylnl]

The biggest thing that worries me about this case is that if this is all the more professionally and by the book that they could handle this investigation, what faith do I have that my investigation will be handled properly? How many people are going to be let go or sent up the river for incompetent police work?

 

[MinuteMan47]

The nerve of the McDonalds people, making you wait.

I know! They even forgot the ketchup I asked for so I had to go INSIDE to get it.....THE NERVE!

 

[Tactical Dave]

The biggest thing that worries me about this case is that if this is all the more professionally and by the book that they could handle this investigation, what faith do I have that my investigation will be handled properly? How many people are going to be let go or sent up the river for incompetent police work?

Personally I think that investigating one of your own only leads to problems....... I can see how the argument could be made that right after the wreck nobody thought he was doing anything wrong though so it was really not an investigation......