drunk officer kills motorcyclist

[Tactical Dave]

There is a comment posted on this thread taken from another source. That person claimed to be a friend if the officer and stated the officer doesn't drink and has sworn such. If they come out with a video from CVS of him purchasing booze, especially in uniform, all hell is gonna break loose.

Agreed,

Sorry if my stuff is a repost, trying to catch up on the thread now and venting my anger...

And when I say cover up I am talking about the officers knowing he was drunk and taking him to a med clinic knowing it could not be used in court if procedure is followed and blood is drawn but at the wrong location.

As long as someone does not speak up and say "hey, we need to take him to the hospital or something for his blood work" then that would be very VERY easy to do.

 

[Joe Williams]

Agreed,

Sorry if my stuff is a repost, trying to catch up on the thread now and venting my anger...

And when I say cover up I am talking about the officers knowing he was drunk and taking him to a med clinic knowing it could not be used in court if procedure is followed and blood is drawn but at the wrong location.

As long as someone does not speak up and say "hey, we need to take him to the hospital or something for his blood work" then that would be very VERY easy to do.

Or maybe the street cops, not being aggressive criminal defense lawyers, didn't realize the med center where they are required to go for the treatment of wounds suffered in the line of duty wasn't actually going to legally qualify as a hospital.

 

[Tactical Dave]

Or maybe the street cops, not being aggressive criminal defense lawyers, didn't realize the med center where they are required to go for the treatment of wounds suffered in the line of duty wasn't actually going to legally qualify as a hospital.

I know that you have so many hours to test someone after the arrest or something has happend..... or at least that is the way it used to be... You would have thought that FACT people would have known. Id buy the street cops not knowing but I assume that everyone gets taken to the hospital or has it drawn by and EMT or something.... I can't see all those guys not knowing.


BUT it comes down to this again.... if they are supposed to get tested after somethin ghappens then WHY did all the officers just say "oh he looks" fine? Who cares what the docs or the medic's say? In the end it will come back on your the officer and guess what?

Someone please answer that for me.

There is only one reason to not cover your back and over look policy....

 

[hornadylnl]

Somebody present at that blood draw knew that having it done at med check would be inadmissible.

Are you saying that even to this day, suspected drunk drivers are taken willy nilly to anyone with a syringe and a vac tube? Do they not have past experience to lean back
on to know that if a blood draw is not handled properly, the DUI charges will be thrown out? Any officer who arrests a
driver for DUI and is made to look like an f'in retard by the
defense for not following protocol will not make that
mistake again.

I know these officers aren't stupid and it is insulting if they think I'm naive enough to believe that not a single person there didn't know they were not following proper protocol. If the officers on this board know it, those on the scene knew it.

 

[Fargo]

Somebody present at that blood draw knew that having it done at med check would be inadmissible.

Are you saying that even to this day, suspected drunk drivers are taken willy nilly to anyone with a syringe and a vac tube? Do they not have past experience to lean back
on to know that if a blood draw is not handled properly, the DUI charges will be thrown out? Any officer who arrests a
driver for DUI and is made to look like an f'in retard by the
defense for not following protocol will not make that
mistake again.

I know these officers aren't stupid and it is insulting if they think I'm naive enough to believe that not a single person there didn't know they were not following proper protocol. If the officers on this board know it, those on the scene knew it.

Where are you getting that the officers on the board knew this?

This is a statute that has been amended into 3 different forms in the last 3 years.

First, there really was no statute making any of these requirements.

Then, in 08 it changed so that any blood draw had to be done by a person listed in sub(j).

Then, in 09 it changed so that draws in a hospital did not require a sub(j) person as long a the proper protocol was followed, but left sub(j) in place for places not statutorily defined as hospitals as well as removing the language of "phlebotomist".

There are 8 kinds of ways that something is very wrong with how this case was handled but I'm not so certain that the officers involved KNEW the current statutory construction and caselaw.

I'm not saying they didn't, I just saying I'm not absolutely certain they did.

Best,


Joe

 

[Knife Lady]

I had to have the tires on my van rotated today so I took it to Walmart Tire & Lube express. The guy doing the work told me I was paying too much for car insurance and that I only needed liability, so I dropped my full coverage.[/

Never mind I cant say what I really want to. Did that hit a nerve with you?? Just repeating what I was told by a person who draws blood for a living. So you drive a car too that the tax payers dont pay for??
Well I sure hope you have Insurance on it in case you are in an accident.

 

[christman]

Edit: Post retracted after a couple cry baby pm's from being butt hurt.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Edit: Post retracted after a couple cry baby pm's from being butt hurt.

You should of sent them the butt hurt form.

 

[Indy317]

I know that you have so many hours to test someone after the arrest or something has happend..... or at least that is the way it used to be... You would have thought that FACT people would have known.

The time frame is three hours if there is PC the person violated Oper. a motor vehicle while intoxicated or Open Alcoholic Beverage Containers; Consumption of Alcohol in Motor Vehicles:

IC 9-30-6-2 Probable cause; offer of test; alternative tests; requirement to submit

(c) A test administered under this chapter must be administered within three (3) hours after the law enforcement officer had probable cause to believe the person committed an offense under IC 9-30-5 or a violation under IC 9-30-15.

They were well within the time frame. Plus, they might have known they had plenty of time. He sits on scene to give statements for an hour or a little more, then is taken to the med check. Plenty of time to get the blood. I can see some officers might have not understood the way the law is written as it applies to the blood draw.

If the officers on this board know it, those on the scene knew it.

I had no clue only certain medical professionals could draw the blood. I have never done it, but worked with officers who have. Usually they get their warrant from the APC judge, transfer the person to the detention unit at Wishard Hospital, and a nurse draws the blood. I am sure doctors have done it as well. It is just that way in Marion County, though some officers who work in the outer parts of the county might choose another hospital...not sure. Anyways, I always thought anyone who was trained to draw blood, and still was working in the industry doing such things, could be a person who could draw the blood. Maybe I was told this in training, I don't remember if that was the case. Thankfully this case has made me do some self-training, and I know will only let a nurse or doctor draw the blood if I ever am in this situation.

You do have a point about the FACTs officers though. They have specialized training, and it is very hard to believe that not one person in that room didn't know there might be a problem. There is no way to know if this is a conspiracy or not. The problem is that if there was only one FACTs team member at the clinic, and the rest are department brass who sit behind a desk, then it would only take that one person to sink the whole case. Unless someone admits to a cover-up, everyone will be left wondering.

 

[hornadylnl]

So if it were Joe Blow that killed this motorcyclist and an officer suspected that alcohol may have been a factor, there is no sop on how to properly handle the blood draw?

 

[Fargo]

So if it were Joe Blow that killed this motorcyclist and an officer suspected that alcohol may have been a factor, there is no sop on how to properly handle the blood draw?

While I don't work in Marion Co., it is my understanding that the SOP would be to call a FACT team member to handle it. I don't know what the FACT team's SOP's are.

Joe

 

[irishfan]

This is looking like a cover up on many levels but for once the news stations are not letting up and we are seeing protests starting. It looks like more than one officer should lose his job on this deal and more than just regular patrol officers as well. I always try and see both sides of things and usually side with the police but this is ridiculous and that officer needs to go to prison.

 

[christman]

You should of sent them the butt hurt form.

Darn. Your right. I forgot. My bad.

I was so befuddled (yes I just said that) at their ass-hattery(that too), I just plain forgot.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Where are you getting that the officers on the board knew this?

Lemme see, would that be from:

1. the law itself.

2. the police calling their supervisors.

3. the e-mails and memos that Brizzi sent out saying that doc in a boxes were not certified.

4. the police calling the prosecutor's office for advice.

5. The Marion County FACT, Fatal Alcohol Crash Team, being summoned.

There are 8 kinds of ways that something is very wrong with how this case was handled but I'm not so certain that the officers involved KNEW the current statutory construction and caselaw.

Boy, what is it that prosecutors always tell me while pulling on their lapels and rocking back and forth looking holier than thou?

Something like . . . police ignorance is excusable . . . no, wait, it is ignorance of the law is no excuse--unless you are a police officer then it is just ducky. Wow, it's like I should be a federal judge or something.

The police knew very well how to sink their case . . . and they did it.

Gee, how would the police investigating their fellow officer know exactly how to torpedo the case against Bisard? What phone calls were made? Who was on the phone with the police. No possible way the officers at the scene made this decision.

Hmmm, I wonder if the FBI will find out?

 

[Tactical Dave]

Where are you getting that the officers on the board knew this?

Pretty sure he was saying that he can't belevie that not a single person knew the protocol.....


It has been said that a person from the FACT team was there... if he or she had that bad of a brain fart to forget the SOP for blood draws then they should be fired on the spot and never ever work for any form of law enforcement again.... period.


It is also looking worse and worse on how many OFFICERS know some of the most basic laws.....

You would think that every officer AT THE VERY LEAST knows what places or whomb can draw blood..... I mean seriously?

I think the officers could have done it on their own and if it did happen that that was it....... on scene officers and the FACT and the "cop" who killed the guy were buddies... that or the officers were clueless and the FACT was buddies with the "cop"....... think about it, it would be VERY easy.


Remember officers...... speed kills........ funny how things are preached to us about not speeding and we get tickets but it is ok for officers to speed when they don't need to..... IE off duty or giving mistomener (sp?) warrents! I really don't care if he was a good guy or if the officers on scene would "never" risk jail time because of their wife and kids.... I hope all that are involved get the book thrown at them...... if it all ends up being true then I think we can start comparing IMPD to NOPD down in LA honestly....

Or maybe the street cops, not being aggressive criminal defense lawyers, didn't realize the med center where they are required to go for the treatment of wounds suffered in the line of duty wasn't actually going to legally qualify as a hospital.

At the very least the FACT should have known and it sounds like they would have had plenty of time to get him to a hospital or get an EMT there or something.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Misdemeanor warrant? What happened to the "felony warrant" part of the IMPD cover story???

Man, this case is falling apart like a cardboard suitcase in the rain.

Pretty sure he was saying that he can't belevie that not a single person knew the protocol....

There was no single person. Many were involved in this. This wasn't a .09 pulled over for a headlight.

The cops knew where to take Bisard and the knowingly and intentionally took him where they were not to take him.

We need the phone records from IMPD cell phones and personal cell phones and from the prosecutors. We need the e-mails from Brizzi's office to IMPD regarding death OWIs. We need a federal grand jury to bust the blue wall of silence and find out who said what to whom at the scene.

 

[hornadylnl]

Where are you getting that the officers on the board knew this?




Joe

There was an officer on here who stated that you can't use an alcohol swab for a blood draw to be admissable in court. If he knew that, why didn't those at the scene know that?

From one of the statutes that was posted several pages back, my take was that a blood draw in a fatal accident was only required if the investigating officers felt that alcohol was a factor. All witnesses state they had no reason to believe alcohol was a factor so why was Bisard's blood drawn? Was med check giving out free blood sugar screenings?

I believe it was said that it was department policy if an officer was involved in a fatality accident. The purpose of that draw was not for criminal proceedings but administrative purposes. This blood draw appears to be botched so badly that it wouldn't even be admissable for administrative purposes.

If those investigating this incident were clueless to the proper procedures for the blood draw, did they consult anyone to find out? Evidently not. Back to the point I made earlier. If I were an officer and I made my first arrest for DUI and got butt raped in court by the defense attorney, you better believe I'll have my ducks in a row for the next time.

If it were a Joe Blow citizen and the investigating officers didn't know the proper procedure for administering the blood draw, I'm sure they would contact their supervisors until they got the answers. It looks like there was no attempt made in Bisard's case to do so. So I guess Bisard deserves preferential treatment over us peasants because he's an officer of the law.

 

[theweakerbrother]

So if it were Joe Blow that killed this motorcyclist and an officer suspected that alcohol may have been a factor, there is no sop on how to properly handle the blood draw?

If the roles are truly reversed to see if it is equal parts for equal animals, it would be that Joe Blow hit a motorcycle police officer... and would the results and accusations be similar or different?

 

[loony1]

There was an officer on here who stated that you can't use an alcohol swab for a blood draw to be admissable in court. If he knew that, why didn't those at the scene know that?

From one of the statutes that was posted several pages back, my take was that a blood draw in a fatal accident was only required if the investigating officers felt that alcohol was a factor. All witnesses state they had no reason to believe alcohol was a factor so why was Bisard's blood drawn? Was med check giving out free blood sugar screenings?

I believe it was said that it was department policy if an officer was involved in a fatality accident. The purpose of that draw was not for criminal proceedings but administrative purposes. This blood draw appears to be botched so badly that it wouldn't even be admissable for administrative purposes.

If those investigating this incident were clueless to the proper procedures for the blood draw, did they consult anyone to find out? Evidently not. Back to the point I made earlier. If I were an officer and I made my first arrest for DUI and got butt raped in court by the defense attorney, you better believe I'll have my ducks in a row for the next time.

If it were a Joe Blow citizen and the investigating officers didn't know the proper procedure for administering the blood draw, I'm sure they would contact their supervisors until they got the answers. It looks like there was no attempt made in Bisard's case to do so. So I guess Bisard deserves preferential treatment over us peasants because he's an officer of the law.

i hate conspiracy theories but this smells definately like a "cover up" by buds on th dept.

 

[Fargo]

Lemme see, would that be from:

1. the law itself.

2. the police calling their supervisors.

3. the e-mails and memos that Brizzi sent out saying that doc in a boxes were not certified.

4. the police calling the prosecutor's office for advice.

5. The Marion County FACT, Fatal Alcohol Crash Team, being summoned.

I said the officers ON THE BOARD. You know, the gun related board known as INGO. I haven't seen a single officer on here that claimed to know that a blood draw at a free standing clinic must be done by a person listed under 6(j). Nothing more, nothing less. I never said that the officers on scene/investigating/doing the draw didn't know.

Boy, what is it that prosecutors always tell me while pulling on their lapels and rocking back and forth looking holier than thou?

Something like . . . police ignorance is excusable . . . no, wait, it is ignorance of the law is no excuse--unless you are a police officer then it is just ducky. Wow, it's like I should be a federal judge or something.

The police knew very well how to sink their case . . . and they did it.

Gee, how would the police investigating their fellow officer know exactly how to torpedo the case against Bisard? What phone calls were made? Who was on the phone with the police. No possible way the officers at the scene made this decision.

Hmmm, I wonder if the FBI will find out?

I'm not discounting that what you say happened could certainly be the case. It very well may be. As I said above, the investigation of this case is oh so very messed up that it is really unbelievable. I'm just not absolutely certain that the drawing of the blood at a non-hospital was deliberate. I certainly grant that it is more than possible, if not probable.

Who the hell said anything is "just ducky". I hold the exact opposite position. Nothing about this is "just ducky" even in an absolute best case scenario for IMPD.

The biggest reason that I question that the 6(j) violation was deliberate is because it is such an obscure and frequently amended statute that I'm not sure the parties involved could have gotten that act together and executed as it was done, even if they wanted to. Not saying they couldn't have, but that is far to refined a way to do it and nothing like I would have expected it to go unless someone who really knew what they were doing was pulling the strings.

Hell, I was the first one in this thread to point out possible federal criminal charges. I have made no excuse for what is an absolutely botched investigation, with almost certain shenanigans of an unlawful nature. I don't understand why you seem to want to put those words in my mouth.

We need the phone records from IMPD cell phones and personal cell phones and from the prosecutors. We need the e-mails from Brizzi's office to IMPD regarding death OWIs. We need a federal grand jury to bust the blue wall of silence and find out who said what to whom at the scene.

I guess I would say that the grand jury needs those things more than "we" do, but I completely agree. I am hopeful that this case doesn't end with a scapegoat which is where I have seen it heading so far.

Unlike j706, I am highly skeptical that the feds are just here for show.

Joe