Don't punch in a street fight?

[iChokePeople]

LOL!

The US Army is the spring from which all knowledge flows.

 

[churchmouse]

So I guess all the times I have hit someone in the throat or choked out some butt head was my imagination. OK whatever. I will throw or grapple.
No jamb on your training. Anyone that devotes that much time and dedication to self defense or just physical training has my respect. I am talking about a dynamic environment. Catching someone sitting on my Harley and it going nuclear. That is a dynamic environment if ever there was one. Just one of many. Yes, the throat is a tough target. A close in open handed strike will usually change the dynamics in your favor.

The real answer is to avoid if possible and elude.

 

[jeremy]

Sun Tzu Art of War?

A couple of years later....

 

[churchmouse]

The US Army is the spring from which all knowledge flows.

My army lifer uncles taught me to box and wrestle. Taught me to shoot as well. 2 of my very favorite people.

 

[jeremy]

So I guess all the times I have hit someone in the throat or choked out some butt head was my imagination. OK whatever. I will throw or grapple.
No jamb on your training. Anyone that devotes that much time and dedication to self defense or just physical training has my respect. I am talking about a dynamic environment. Catching someone sitting on my Harley and it going nuclear. That is a dynamic environment if ever there was one. Just one of many. Yes, the throat is a tough target. A close in open handed strike will usually change the dynamics in your favor.

The real answer is to avoid if possible and elude.

I think it Leagel to shoot someone for Sitting on your Harley....

 

[Dragon]

I didn't say a word about choking people. Did you read that in my post somewhere that I cannot find?

 

[iChokePeople]

<<<<<------- I choke people.

But it would generally not be my first choice in a bar fight.

 

[churchmouse]

I didn't say a word about choking people. Did you read that in my post somewhere that I cannot find?

No, you didn't. No knock as I said. Just a reference to that area of the anatomy.

 

[jeremy]

Psstt...

It is not an FM....
It is an SH and it is to the best of My Knowledge of useless Military Trivia the only one that lists MOH in it (page iv)

 

[churchmouse]

<<<<<------- I choke people.

But it would generally not be my first choice in a bar fight.

^^^This^^^

That is the dynamic I reference to.

 

[dlbrown75]

For hard targets use a soft weapon, for soft targets use a hard weapon. I will explain if I need to.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

...
I have some advice for anyone planning to attempt to defend themselves without punching someone in the face. I hope you don't have to fight someone who knows what they're doing or you take the fight to the ground because you're going to get your ass beaten.
....

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about slap fighting in lieu of fists. That's silly.

I'm talking about using elbows to the head, knees and punches to the body, teep kicks to the gut, and quick round kicks - not flashy karate jump-spins but quick, brutal kicks to the ribs and thighs this.

Both these kicks have longer range than punches, too.

Watch some Thai boxing from Thailand; most of those fights are finished because one of the boxers has been kicked in the left leg so much that he can't stand up any more, and they know how to counter and defend against these attacks, too.

 

[iChokePeople]

Yes, and those are all good techniques, but those fights go the way they do largely because they have specific rules. Open up the rules and the fighting will evolve, fighters will have to round out their game.

Oops, but I'm getting off-topic. Yes, punches to the head are fine, IMHO.

 

[jeremy]

Yes, and those are all good techniques, but those fights go the way they do largely because they have specific rules. Open up the rules and the fighting will evolve, fighters will have to round out their game.

Put them in a crowded area and see what happens to then...

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Put them in a crowded area and see what happens to then...

I will certainly agree that is very limiting. Gotta be able to move to kick, and the whole style is geared toward one-on-one encounters.

Circumstances change and everything has to be a reaction to the environment. Sure, the time might come when all you can do is punch your way out of trouble, so you do what you have to do. You can "what-if" me into a fight with my legs shackled and one hand tied behind my back, and of course I'll punch. So I'll back off of the "never" and just say that punching to the head is going to be a last resort for me. I would expect it would also be at the tail end of the list for anybody who knows how to do the other stuff, because most of the time the other stuff is more effective and carries less risk.

 

[Dragon]

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about slap fighting in lieu of fists. That's silly.

I'm talking about using elbows to the head, knees and punches to the body, teep kicks to the gut, and quick round kicks - not flashy karate jump-spins but quick, brutal kicks to the ribs and thighs this.

Both these kicks have longer range than punches, too.

Watch some Thai boxing from Thailand; most of those fights are finished because one of the boxers has been kicked in the left leg so much that he can't stand up any more, and they know how to counter and defend against these attacks, too.

If you knew anything about the styles of fighting I listed, you'd see similarities. Here's just a snippet for you to checkout and by no means fully represents all techniques used, but this is an American San Shou fighter named Cung Le who's in the UFC taking on China/Mongolia's Champion of San Shou Na Shun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWjh4HTiDBk

Muay Thai isn't the only style that's used powerful kicks btw.

 

[iChokePeople]

Kicks frequently lead to takedowns... So if that's your gameplan, you better have great takedown defense or a decent ground game.

I don't want to get all esoteric here, but don't limit yourself. "be like water", my friend. "Use no way as the way."

 

[churchmouse]

Kicks frequently lead to takedowns... So if that's your gameplan, you better have great takedown defense or a decent ground game.

I don't want to get all esoteric here, but don't limit yourself. "be like water", my friend. "Use no way as the way."

Fights are fluid and ever changing as water grasshopper.
All the styles and techniques discussed in these posts are effective and deadly in their own ways. Did the full contact thing in the early 70's before it was evolved to the level we are currently seeing. It was more like an organized street fight then. I think we were originally talking of just a good old smash and grab street or bar fight, you know, hey buddy, that's my girl kind of thing. No rules, time limits and your corner guy's are the friends you pray are backing your play. If you have some training it is to your advantage if it put to use at the onset of physicality. Strike hard, fast and straight for the soft points with all the violence at your command.
Then if possible gather yourself up and escape before the LEO or bouncer start using your head for a door opener. Just my personal experience.

 

[iChokePeople]

Agreed, and I'm not advocating one style or technique over any other. I'm just saying that you shouldn't limit yourself, like by saying no punches to the head. I think that's a mistake.

 

[churchmouse]

If someone drops their guard for a split second and opens up a soft target like nose, jaw hinge point or temple take the shot. If you make a proper fist to begin with you stand less chance of injury.
Then there is always Jeremy's plan A, B or C.
You are correct that locking into one style or discipline might get you hurt.
When I trained as a very young man we were taught SA 1st response 2nd. Some would disagree but to this day I scan a room or area as I approach or enter. It is a good habit.