Donald J. Trump. Messiah? Poopiehead? Discuss...

[bwframe]

Maybe it's the other way around? The NeverTrump cult?

 

[printcraft]

Maybe it's the other way around? The NeverTrump cult?

To hear them talk the only thing they are missing is the koolaid and matching sneakers.

 

[Buck#1]

No Messiah just a good businessman

 

[jamil]

Maybe it's the other way around? The NeverTrump cult?

There may be some truth to that. Seems like the closer you get to the extremes the more cultlike people act. I think some of the progressive behave that way too.

 

[PaulF]

What is the conservative love affair with politicians with poor public speaking abilities? Did you guys use up all your charisma points when assigning stats to Reagan?

Seriously. BushII got rattled easily when addressing a crowd, read poorly in real-time, and couldn't (or wouldn't) pronounce the word "nuclear" correctly. Bush was no dummy, so I oftentimes wonder how much of that was an act. Whatever. People ate that crap up. One of the reasons I voted for Obama on 08 was his public speaking ability. For all his (many) flaws, 44 was a top-tier public speaker.

Trump. You guys know I think he is a person of poor character. I don't think he's an idiot, but I don't think he's any further right on the intellectual bell curve than the average INGOer. His public speaking habits are simply appalling. He speaks at a seventh-grade level, in form and in content. He does not articulate complex ideas well, and it makes me question his ability to thoroughly engage complex situations. I don't get the feeling it is an act, since he been recorded speaking this way his entire adult life.

I honestly question how well equipped he is, mentally and emotionally, to respond to crisis situations in real time. I don't get the impression he spends much time thinking about the direct consequences of his actions, much less the possible unintended outcomes. I fear what actions a clever and powerful opponent (like Putin) might be able to goad Trump into taking. These thoughts get reinforced when I hear Trump speak.

Someone should build an app that counts the number of times Trump says "very", maybe make some kind of drinking game out of it. I know it's too much to ask for the president learn to use descriptive adjectives.

 

[PaulF]

There may be some truth to that. Seems like the closer you get to the extremes the more cultlike people act. I think some of the progressive behave that way too.

I feel like tribalism is taking too great a hold over the public discourse. I wonder if it isn't a result of the emergence of identity politics. We, here at INGO, are as guilty of some aspects of cultish behavior as anyone else out there. It's ugly, and I don't think anyone wants to admit when they take part in it...it's always the other guys.

I'm guilty of it.

 

[churchmouse]

What is the conservative love affair with politicians with poor public speaking abilities? Did you guys use up all your charisma points when assigning stats to Reagan?

Seriously. BushII got rattled easily when addressing a crowd, read poorly in real-time, and couldn't (or wouldn't) pronounce the word "nuclear" correctly. Bush was no dummy, so I oftentimes wonder how much of that was an act. Whatever. People ate that crap up. One of the reasons I voted for Obama on 08 was his public speaking ability. For all his (many) flaws, 44 was a top-tier public speaker.

Trump. You guys know I think he is a person of poor character. I don't think he's an idiot, but I don't think he's any further right on the intellectual bell curve than the average INGOer. His public speaking habits are simply appalling. He speaks at a seventh-grade level, in form and in content. He does not articulate complex ideas well, and it makes me question his ability to thoroughly engage complex situations. I don't get the feeling it is an act, since he been recorded speaking this way his entire adult life.

I honestly question how well equipped he is, mentally and emotionally, to respond to crisis situations in real time. I don't get the impression he spends much time thinking about the direct consequences of his actions, much less the possible unintended outcomes. I fear what actions a clever and powerful opponent (like Putin) might be able to goad Trump into taking. These thoughts get reinforced when I hear Trump speak.

Someone should build an app that counts the number of times Trump says "very", maybe make some kind of drinking game out of it. I know it's too much to ask for the president learn to use descriptive adjectives.

Public speaking is not in the top 10 reasons I vote for or even like someone.
So what. "O" was a great orator but a terrible president.
Is Trump going to fail.....Hard to say. Character is something we seldom get to see (or the true face of it) in most elected officials as they have a cushion surrounding them.
Will Trump be tested. Yes, I believe the constant and unending daily attacks are a test. How would any of us hold up under this.

I am not making excuses for this man. I am just observing the grand play that is unfolding before us.

 

[churchmouse]

I feel like tribalism is taking too great a hold over the public discourse. I wonder if it isn't a result of the emergence of identity politics. We, here at INGO, are as guilty of some aspects of cultish behavior as anyone else out there. It's ugly, and I don't think anyone wants to admit when they take part in it...it's always the other guys.

I'm guilty of it.

As am I Paul. It has become the norm in the last 8 years. Does that ring any bells with anyone.

 

[bwframe]

Public speaking is not in the top 10 reasons I vote for or even like someone.
So what. "O" was a great orator but a terrible president...

Don't forget "the first black president's" slickness in this neighborhood.

 

[PaulF]

As am I Paul. It has become the norm in the last 8 years. Does that ring any bells with anyone.

I know. Obama.

I disagree, to a point at least. Obama was a sign of the times, a product...not the cause. I think he was emblematic of the greater culture in many ways: over-educated, under-experienced, cocky for no good reason, but a tremendous "personality". I think he reflected the changing social landscape, he did not change it. What did change it?

I think the greatest single influence was the widespread social adoption of the Internet as a social media platform. Everyone had access to subculture in an unprecedented way, and many more people chose to engage in some type of subculture than participate in the larger "American Culture". The internet allows like-minded people to form relatively large groups, and exclude non-conforming views. With an infinite number of potential "accepting" cultures at their fingertips, I think fewer and fewer people are choosing to "identify" (I loathe that term) as American in favor of some identity (read: ego) driven subgroup.

 

[KJQ6945]

The masses see the man as the liberal media chooses to portray them.

The liberal media picks the republican candidate in the primary that they think they can beat in the general. They chose McCain, they chose Romney, and they chose Trump. I don't know a single conservative that says, "Trump was my guy", from the beginning. He won the primary, because he got ALL the press. We had 16 people running for the Republican nomination. Who was put on the tv and the front page every day? It wasn't Ted Cruz. Most of America couldn't pick Ted Cruz out of a lineup. Could you, INGO?

Honestly, the crying, the gnashing of teeth by the left, and our own INGO leftist calling him an idiot and a habitual liar in EVERY post, puts a giant smile on my face. Every insult that they hurl at this man, they are choking on there own stupidity and arrogance.

 

[PaulF]

The masses see the man as the liberal media chooses to portray them.

The liberal media picks the republican candidate in the primary that they think they can beat in the general. They chose McCain, they chose Romney, and they chose Trump. I don't know a single conservative that says, "Trump was my guy", from the beginning. He won the primary, because he got ALL the press. We had 16 people running for the Republican nomination. Who was put on the tv and the front page every day? It wasn't Ted Cruz. Most of America couldn't pick Ted Cruz out of a lineup. Could you, INGO?

Honestly, the crying, the gnashing of teeth by the left, and our own INGO leftist calling him an idiot and a habitual liar in EVERY post, puts a giant smile on my face. Every insult that they hurl at this man, they are choking on there own stupidity and arrogance.

Look, I enjoy schottenfreude as much as the next guy. There is pleasure in seeing your opponents suffer. Conan (Barbarian, not O'brian) was correct.

Trump surely pisses off the left, but outside of his core supporters he doesn't inspire the right. An inspiring leader, or an effective politician, would be able to take advantage of this brief window where his party controls both legislative bodies and is well represented on the supreme court. Trump is neither of these things, and the country suffers for it.

I don't care how bad HRC would have been. This is the Donald Trump show now...and it's a load of ****.

 

[KJQ6945]

Look, I enjoy schottenfreude as much as the next guy. There is pleasure in seeing your opponents suffer. Conan (Barbarian, not O'brian) was correct.

Trump surely pisses off the left, but outside of his core supporters he doesn't inspire the right. An inspiring leader, or an effective politician, would be able to take advantage of this brief window where his party controls both legislative bodies and is well represented on the supreme court. Trump is neither of these things, and the country suffers for it.

I don't care how bad HRC would have been. This is the Donald Trump show now...and it's a load of ****.

And he was picked by the left, not the right. Sure, I voted for him in the general, but I would have voted for Putin over Hillary. At least he is a reformed communist.

 

[Trigger Time]

Don't forget "the first black president's" slickness in this neighborhood.

And not even black. Raised by communist white grandparents and.birthed to a white mother who happened to be a whore for real. Had a black daddy sperm donor is the only black that was in him until he wanted or needed to use color to his advantage to get freebies and skate by as a youth and as a community organizer and then senator and then president. It still blows my mind that people didn't care he had no,leadership qualities at all or experience to lead anything. I won't even go into everytthig else. The only thing I'll give him credit for is his charm and education. He wouldn't have got that in Kenya so I still don't know why he hated America so much when he was handed everything.
Nothing I said above is racist it's facts so don't even try to pull the "racist" card on me.
Obama was and always will be the first great imposter. False hope for people who wanted to believe but he **** on them for 8 years.
Trump has opened more opportunities to blacks than Obama did. I didn't say GAVE because no one should be given anything. They should earn it.
Obama is and always be whatever the highest bidder wants him to be

 

[PaulF]

And he was picked by the left, not the right. Sure, I voted for him in the general, but I would have voted for Putin over Hillary. At least he is a reformed communist.

I don't disagree with you, except for the Putin part.

The left did pick him. That's correct. I think its because Americans still trust the traditional media, biased as it is, more than conservative media. I think the fault is largely in conservative media itself.

Listen to NPR's "Morning Edition", PBS's "Newshour", BBC's "World Service". They speak in calm, low, perfectly scripted tones. They enunciate, they draw from a broad vocabulary. They present material dispassionately, even when it is intended to influence the viewer. These programs are designed primarily to inform their audience. They have a track record of accurate and thorough reporting and are largely trustworthy broadly.

Listen to Fox News' "Fox and Friends" or "O'reilly Factor", Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, or Garrison...or Rachael Maddow, for that matter. It's loud, off the cuff, visceral. Interviews are combative, curt. Opinion is often indistinguishable from reporting. These programs are largely intended to influence their audience. They have a track record of sensationalism, poor fact-checking, and dubious sources. They tend to put narrative over fact and much of what is presented requires independent verification.

Look at the model the mainstream/liberal commercial media takes. Looks a lot more like the first group than the second, don't you think? People think the mainstream liberal commercial media is more trustworthy than the conservative media because it looks more like what real, informative broadcast media does.

You see what I'm getting at...people get tired of being yelled at and keyed on all the time. Conservative media has to offer a more intellectual mass-media persona if it wants to be trusted by the larger public...in my humble opinion, of course.

 

[SSGSAD]

I never thought you were.

It isn't binary, it's a spectrum: we all fall onto it somewhere. I don't hate Trump, but I do think he is objectively bad for my liberty. I fall near one end of the spectrum...but not at the extreme. I gather much is the same for you, your support for Trump comes with important caveats...you are not a blind follower.

Too many people choose not to think for themselves. I think this is the crowd (on both extremes of the spectrum) that ruin the adult conversation for everyone else.

You have me "pegged" .....

 

[SSGSAD]

Ok, good bad whatever. Let's do a comparison.

Final Obama travel tab: $100 million

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...176811&usg=AFQjCNFDbWvYQMrq8609FcDAFjAjyYX97A

Here ya go .....
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...t.com/&usg=AFQjCNH5omnOguGrjolh-b5-X9h7mk4-Rw

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...6.html&usg=AFQjCNHmFLH6rKKhemLxdJsk9NbWgzwd7w

Ask, and ye SHALL RECIEVE .....

I didn't check before posting .....

 

[SSGSAD]

I signed up, and I served 20yrs before retiring. Yes, I had to do what I was told, but I always hoped my Commander in Chief would never be so irrational as you seem to believe Trump is.

You, would NOT have made it in ANY of my Units .....

Supply, and Motor T .....

 

[jamil]

I feel like tribalism is taking too great a hold over the public discourse. I wonder if it isn't a result of the emergence of identity politics. We, here at INGO, are as guilty of some aspects of cultish behavior as anyone else out there. It's ugly, and I don't think anyone wants to admit when they take part in it...it's always the other guys.

I'm guilty of it.

I think that's why we're so divided. Identity politics just pushes people into their "tribe". And there's now an "identitarian" movement on the right which is growing, much in response to the progressive's identity politics. This is just going to divide everyone further to the point where no one can talk to each other.

 

[Dddrees]

The masses see the man as the liberal media chooses to portray them.

The liberal media picks the republican candidate in the primary that they think they can beat in the general. They chose McCain, they chose Romney, and they chose Trump. I don't know a single conservative that says, "Trump was my guy", from the beginning. He won the primary, because he got ALL the press. We had 16 people running for the Republican nomination. Who was put on the tv and the front page every day? It wasn't Ted Cruz. Most of America couldn't pick Ted Cruz out of a lineup. Could you, INGO?

Honestly, the crying, the gnashing of teeth by the left, and our own INGO leftist calling him an idiot and a habitual liar in EVERY post, puts a giant smile on my face. Every insult that they hurl at this man, they are choking on there own stupidity and arrogance.

This appears to be the common thought among most on the right. You assume those that don't like Trump are on the left, you also assume the reason we don't like him only because of what the media programs us too.

So to this I could easily come back and say you only like Trump because of Fox and because of Breitbart.

Well your wrong, but that's Ok if it makes it easier for you to sleep at night you keep thinking that way.


But no, I don't like Trump because of everything Trump stands for and the things Trump does.


But like I said if that makes it easier for you and your reality you keep thinking that way.